"Christian" mysticism is not Christian, is it?

"Christian" mysticism is not Christian, is it?

  • Sure it is!

    Votes: 13 52.0%
  • No, it's more of Eastern religion

    Votes: 8 32.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 16.0%

  • Total voters
    25

zoidar

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I'm starting this thread to make us aware of (as I see it) the danger of mysticism. If you are a mystic and saved, I would say you fully haven't grasped what mysticism is. True mystics have an upside down view of the gospel. Now probably there is someone here getting angry with me, but don't. Give your view and we can discuss this like friends.

Christ love,
Peter
 

Heavenhome

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The very term Christian mysticism is an oxymoron: they cannot go together.
(I know some do put it together)

If you are Christian, you follow Jesus and what the Bible tells us, full stop.

Mysticism is outside anything biblical.
 
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HTacianas

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I'm starting this thread to make us aware of (as I see it) the danger of mysticism. If you are a mystic and saved, I would say you fully haven't grasped what mysticism is. True mystics have an upside down view of the gospel. Now probably there is someone here getting angry with me, but don't. Give your view and we can discuss this like friends.

Christ love,
Peter

How do you describe Christian mysticism?
 
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Dave-W

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I'm starting this thread to make us aware of (as I see it) the danger of mysticism. If you are a mystic and saved, I would say you fully haven't grasped what mysticism is. True mystics have an upside down view of the gospel. Now probably there is someone here getting angry with me, but don't. Give your view and we can discuss this like friends.

Christ love,
Peter
I had that opinion for a few decades. Then a close pastor friend of mine told me that I was a christian mystic. I got kinda mad at him for a bit, but he explained that being a mystic was NOT something evil or satanic.

Being raised pentecostal /charismatic I believe that God does intervene in our world today and that He still speaks to us individually, and not JUST thru the words printed in the bible. That is the definition of Christian mysticism.
 
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YesMe

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Better said, christinaity and the supernatural go hand in hand, just study the christian literature and you will find amazing stories!! There are some groups of christians who act just like the atheists when it comes to the manifestation of the divine power on Earth, the supernatural, I witnessed many things and I know it's all true.
 
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Daniel9v9

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While I would say that mysticism is a path to all kinds of false teaching, as I hold that Scripture alone is our source for doctrine and of the highest authority in all things, I recognise that the word "mysticism" is very broad in usage; in how it's practised and understood throughout history.

However, if we understand mysticism as articles of faith that are not found in Scriptures, then it's always un-Christian. In fact, transparency is one of the marks of Christianity - that there are no hidden dogma or different levels of spirituality that one must achieve or unlock. All Christian teachings are for everyone to see as it revolves around the person and works of Jesus Christ for our salvation. So in this sense, mysticism is very incompatible with the Christian faith.
 
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public hermit

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I'm starting this thread to make us aware of (as I see it) the danger of mysticism. If you are a mystic and saved, I would say you fully haven't grasped what mysticism is. True mystics have an upside down view of the gospel. Now probably there is someone here getting angry with me, but don't. Give your view and we can discuss this like friends.

Christ love,
Peter

Since this is a philosophy section, shouldn't you give an argument for your claim? What do you mean by "upside down view of the gospel"? What is the gospel? What is Christian mysticism? And, what are some examples of the later? A vacuous claim is not an argument. As things stand, all you have done is slander someone, only we don't know who that is.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I'm starting this thread to make us aware of (as I see it) the danger of mysticism. If you are a mystic and saved, I would say you fully haven't grasped what mysticism is. True mystics have an upside down view of the gospel. Now probably there is someone here getting angry with me, but don't. Give your view and we can discuss this like friends.

Christ love,
Peter
The term christian mysticism was coined due to the increasing athiestic or neo-sadducee tendencies of the churches as the masses modernized.

People believe there is a God, and in Jesus, except this Jesus cannot do anything.
 
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icxn

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...Mysticism is outside anything biblical.
Is it?

Quote from 1 Corinthians 2:

6 Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7 But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written,

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”​

There's obviously a mystical (secret) side to Christianity and there's no reason to reject it because of some unhealthy and erroneous strain of it, or because we are not mature enough to receive it.
 
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Dave-W

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The very term Christian mysticism is an oxymoron: they cannot go together.
(I know some do put it together)

If you are Christian, you follow Jesus and what the Bible tells us, full stop.

Mysticism is outside anything biblical.
1 Cor 2:1
And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, 4 and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.​

Since the supernatural "Power of God" IS mysticism, I would suggest you are incorrect in your assessment.
 
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Heavenhome

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I take the meaning of the word mysticism from the dictionary.
I understand the power of God, I don't understand Christian Mysticism as being anything other than a melding of Eastern mysticism with Christianity and I don't think they mix.
 
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zoidar

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How do you describe Christian mysticism?

Since this is a philosophy section, shouldn't you give an argument for your claim? What do you mean by "upside down view of the gospel"? What is the gospel? What is Christian mysticism? And, what are some examples of the later? A vacuous claim is not an argument. As things stand, all you have done is slander someone, only we don't know who that is.

I have read William Johnston who was a jesuit mystic, and listened to on youtube to a benedictine mystic David Steindl Rast. Also I know about Merton and a few others.

As someone pointed out there is variety what we mean by mysticism. W Johnston descrices how we leave all forms of God to know God within ourselves. He uses a language that may confuse those who aren't experienced of New age concepts. According to Johnston we are to leave all attachments to God and experience God in the unknown. Johnston means Jesus died on the cross so we can find God within ourselves. It's not about Jesus taking the sins of the world on himself, but so we become one with God, or actually be God. He says we have to leave all concepts/images of God to know God.

Here are some quotes from him:

"Contemplation removes the "roots" of sin."

"The aim of contemplation is, then, to return to the state of original justice, before sin, all the faculties of man were united and fixed on God in perfect union with Him"

"And not only is God the being of all things, He is also our being."


The mysticism of the cloud of unknowing - William Johnston
 
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Heavenhome

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I have read William Johnston who was a jesuit mystic, and listened to on youtube to a benedictine mystic David Steindl Rast. Also I know about Merton and a few others.

As someone pointed out there is variety what we mean by mystisism. W Johnston descrices how we leave all forms of God to know God within ourselves. He uses a language that may confuse those who aren't experienced of New age concepts. According to Johnston we are to leave all attachments to God and experience God in the unknown. Johnston means Jesus died on the cross so we can find God within ourselves. It's not about Jesus taking the sins of the world on himself, but so we become one with God, or actually be God.

Here are some quotes from him:

"Contemplation removes the "roots" of sin."

"The aim of contemplation is, then, to return to the state of original justice, before sin, all the faculties of man were united and fixed on God in perfect union with Him"

"And not only is God the being of all things, He is also our being."


The mysticism of the cloud of unknowing - William Johnstone

Yes that's the sort of thing I think of when I hear the words "Christian Mysticism", plain weird and something to stay away from.
 
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HTacianas

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I have read William Johnston who was a jesuit mystic, and listened to on youtube to a benedictine mystic David Steindl Rast. Also I know about Merton and a few others.

As someone pointed out there is variety what we mean by mystisism. W Johnston descrices how we leave all forms of God to know God within ourselves. He uses a language that may confuse those who aren't experienced of New age concepts. According to Johnston we are to leave all attachments to God and experience God in the unknown. Johnston means Jesus died on the cross so we can find God within ourselves. It's not about Jesus taking the sins of the world on himself, but so we become one with God, or actually be God. He says we have to leave all concepts/images of God to know God.

Here are some quotes from him:

"Contemplation removes the "roots" of sin."

"The aim of contemplation is, then, to return to the state of original justice, before sin, all the faculties of man were united and fixed on God in perfect union with Him"

"And not only is God the being of all things, He is also our being."


The mysticism of the cloud of unknowing - William Johnstone

All of what you've said is entirely Christian. What the Western Church calls divinization the Eastern Church calls Theosis. It has been a part of Christianity since the beginning. That "we become one with God, or actually be God" is the idea. Paul said that Jesus is the image of God:

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

And then we are to be conformed to the image of Jesus:

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son..

To be conformed to the image of the Son is to be conformed to the image of God. Christian Hesychasts practice "quietness" or "stillness":

Psa 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God...

Someone who has the Spirit inside them remains quiet, or still, and contemplates the Spirit. By contemplating the Spirit one listens to the Spirit, and communes with the Spirit, therefore communes with God.
 
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zoidar

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"we become one with God, or actually be God" is the idea. Paul said that Jesus is the image of God:

Some call this Christ consciousness or enlightenment. It's not what Paul is talking about.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Yes that's the sort of thing I think of when I hear the words "Christian Mysticism", plain weird and something to stay away from.
Hi, @Heavenhome The Christian faith revolves around the Bible's witness to the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus; often what claims to be 'mysticism' is so subjective and vague. The believer rests, on the contrary, on glorious facts. :)
 
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public hermit

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I have read William Johnston who was a jesuit mystic, and listened to on youtube to a benedictine mystic David Steindl Rast. Also I know about Merton and a few others.

I'm not familiar with Johnston or Rast, so for now I'll have to take your word for it. When I think of mystical Christianity I think of contemplative prayer, the Desert Christians of the 3rd century, Gregory of Nyssa, St. John of the Cross, Meister Eckhart, Catherine of Sienna, and a host of others. I don't necessarily see the mystical tradition as contrary to the dogmatic tradition. I can see how some expressions of it may seem to be, and maybe some are. But, it seems hasty to cast it all aside as heretical (if that's what you mean by an "upside down view of the gospel").
 
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zoidar

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I had that opinion for a few decades. Then a close pastor friend of mine told me that I was a christian mystic. I got kinda mad at him for a bit, but he explained that being a mystic was NOT something evil or satanic.

Being raised pentecostal /charismatic I believe that God does intervene in our world today and that He still speaks to us individually, and not JUST thru the words printed in the bible. That is the definition of Christian mysticism.

I agree with all you said about God, but that has from my view nothing to do with mysticism.
 
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