Bernie May Be Unstoppable By March 18th (or even by March 4th)

Mountainmanbob · Feb 23, 2020

Bernie has this thing just about wrapped up.
Go Bernie.
M-Bob

ZNP · Feb 23, 2020

mark46 said:
yup, just as wasteful

So, a candidate promises you $240k that he has no chance of giving you, and your response is to vote for him. I guess the other candidate should offer more, since actual results don't matter.

I look at Western Europe, I feel there is a lot of pressure for the US to move in the same direction. 4 years ago it was impossible for Sanders to win the nomination, now its impossible for him to win the election, if he wins its impossible for him to deliver. The reality is that his message resonates with 40% of the country. It will be very difficult for the government to ignore 40% of the population.

GodLovesCats · Feb 23, 2020

Mark, you know Democrats have reasons to be optimistic about their favorite candidate winning this year, right? There is zero chance their alternative in November will save them any of those $240,000 they need for college. High school seniors and college students know that.

athenken · Feb 23, 2020

ZNP said:
In the end it comes down to 3 choices, A, B, or none of the above. In previous elections the vast majority of eligible voters in Texas have chosen "none of the above". College can easily cost $240,000 over 4 years, I have yet to see a Presidential campaign that was offering to impact my life by that amount. Seriously, if choice A is save $240,000 and choice B is Trump how can that not be a major motivating issue?

You want to save $240000? Don't go to a 4-year college and work to earn a useless degree. Instead, learn a trade and start earning an income as soon as you get out employing what you have learned and get out of debt within years, not decades. If, after you have learned a marketable skill, you still want to continue your education, then you will then have the means to do so.

The current higher educational system needs to be turned on its head. Stop feeding a system that is turning our kids into brain dead snowflakes who think the world owes them everything.

ZNP · Feb 23, 2020

athenken said:
You want to save $240000? Don't go to a 4-year college and work to earn a useless degree. Instead, learn a trade and start earning an income as soon as you get out employing what you have learned and get out of debt within years, not decades. If, after you have learned a marketable skill, you still want to continue your education, then you will then have the means to do so.

The current higher educational system needs to be turned on its head. Stop feeding a system that is turning our kids into brain dead snowflakes who think the world owes them everything.

When I was in college my roommate did a careful financial analysis that showed those guys going straight into the local factory would make as much as us over their lifetime. Unfortunately the factory laid them all off about 15 years ago and they don't have any marketable skills. Had to start over at 45.

Kentonio · Feb 23, 2020

mark46 said:
HOW CAN VOTING TO SAVE $240K ISN"T A MOTIVATING ISSUE?
1) when the candidate has zero chance of winning with his platform.
2) when the candidate, if elected has exactly zero chance of passing legislation so that I save $240K

Thank goodness the Democrats didn’t listen to people like you when FDR was elected. All the time it’s ‘this is just people wanting free stuff!’ and ‘it’s just not realistic!’.

Oh yeah? Funny how the Republicans don’t seem to have any problem passing massive tax cuts under Bush and now Trump. Or slashing so called ‘entitlements’. Or any of their other ideological desires. But no, when it’s a Democrat suddenly the United States is going to turn into soviet Russia as soon as one guy tries to convince people that working people should get a cut of the pie too.

Have you not actually noticed yet that the moderate ‘incremental progress’ strategy is so far resulting primarily in ‘one step forward, two steps back’ when it comes to the economic effects on normal people?

267px-1970-_Relative_income_growth_by_percentiles_-_US.png

Silmarien · Feb 23, 2020

mark46 said:
This is probably the worst political analysis I've seen in awhile. There are lots of other issues. Even some of those who might get the free gifts understand this may not be the right candidate.

Why is he not the right candidate? It seems to me that what you need to take out one populistic rabble rouser is another. The socialism is certainly a gamble, but I'm not at all convinced that anyone else in the field has the charisma and passionate following to challenge an incumbent president, even an incompetent one.

I was skeptical at first, but the centrists have so far failed to step up, so I think going for broke might be the best option after all. Especially since he seemed to do pretty well with moderates in Nevada too, so the "Never Sanders" phenomenon might not be as big an issue as assumed.

GodLovesCats · Feb 23, 2020

Athen, you obviously did not think before posting. People go to college because they want specific careers that cannot be learned at a trade school or four-year college degrees are required to attract employers. It is not possible to save $240,000 by abandoning your plans to be a mechanical engineer or oncologist. My sisters have those jobs because they wanted them.

ZNP · Feb 23, 2020

Biden only has a 5 point lead on Sanders in S Carolina, Sanders will probably get a boost from his showing in Nevada as well. This could be the end for Biden.

GodLovesCats · Feb 23, 2020

Joe Biden's campaign has already stated if he loses in South Carolina, it is over. The debate will be crucial for him.

athenken · Feb 23, 2020

ZNP said:
When I was in college my roommate did a careful financial analysis that showed those guys going straight into the local factory would make as much as us over their lifetime. Unfortunately the factory laid them all off about 15 years ago and they don't have any marketable skills. Had to start over at 45.

That depends on what you consider a "marketable skill." Anything from working on a car (oil changes, brake repair, etc...) to welding, to carpentry is employable anywhere. This is what I am talking about. I have had jobs in factories that may, or may not, translate to other positions, but that is why you develop other skills. Even if you start it as a hobby, if you can make money doing it while looking for other forms of employment, you are much farther ahead than those who spend too much money attending a 4-year college working toward some sort of liberal arts degree that will be all but meaningless once graduation is reached.

ZNP · Feb 23, 2020

athenken said:
That depends on what you consider a "marketable skill." Anything from working on a car (oil changes, brake repair, etc...) to welding, to carpentry is employable anywhere. This is what I am talking about. I have had jobs in factories that may, or may not, translate to other positions, but that is why you develop other skills. Even if you start it as a hobby, if you can make money doing it while looking for other forms of employment, you are much farther ahead than those who spend too much money attending a 4-year college working toward some sort of liberal arts degree that will be all but meaningless once graduation is reached.

Henry Ford paid a lot more than the market value so that he could get a stable work force that didn't quit. So when the factories shut down what looked like a great job was a terrible one.
Now you might think that oil change and brake repair are skills that won't go away. But, new cars have sensors that tell you when these things need to be serviced. That removes the most valuable part of auto repair from the equation, diagnosing the problem.
We used to think driving a truck was a good job that wouldn't go away. But now we have self driving cars, truck driving as a career is going to shrink. Factory workers got replaced by robots. Soon delivery workers will be replaced by drones.
3d printing has printed houses and buildings for a fraction of the cost and time that it would have taken for builders.
Human history has shown us that you have to keep growing, and school and study have become more and more essential.

Desk trauma · Feb 23, 2020

athenken said:
That depends on what you consider a "marketable skill." Anything from working on a car (oil changes, brake repair, etc...) to welding, to carpentry is employable anywhere. This is what I am talking about. I have had jobs in factories that may, or may not, translate to other positions, but that is why you develop other skills. Even if you start it as a hobby, if you can make money doing it while looking for other forms of employment, you are much farther ahead than those who spend too much money attending a 4-year college working toward some sort of liberal arts degree that will be all but meaningless once graduation is reached.

Humanities degrees barely account for 10% of the bachelors degrees earned in the US each year. Strawmaning higher education is no better than belittling the trades.

wing2000 · Feb 23, 2020

athenken said:
Honestly, the only hispanics, as well as members of other groups, that would consider voting for Bernie are either illegals or on welfare. And even then you would have to convince them to actually get out and vote.

I guess you didn't see what happened in Nevada...

wing2000 · Feb 23, 2020

ZNP said:
Biden only has a 5 point lead on Sanders in S Carolina, Sanders will probably get a boost from his showing in Nevada as well. This could be the end for Biden.

Sanders was already in Texas last night. I think Bernie will let Biden have S. Carolina and clean up in Texas and California. If his ground game is as effective in those states as Nevada, he will will big on those states.

timothyu · Feb 23, 2020

ZNP said:
Human history has shown us that you have to keep growing, and school and study have become more and more essential.

Yet those who do the menial tasks that keep the rest of us 'comfortable' will never become non-essential. The very people that are often looked down upon will survive as the middle class disappears. The class that find those jobs beneath their dignity. Jobs that often pay more as few want them.

Sparagmos · Feb 24, 2020

athenken said:
Honestly, the only hispanics, as well as members of other groups, that would consider voting for Bernie are either illegals or on welfare. And even then you would have to convince them to actually get out and vote.

You seem to be ignoring the large numbers of Latinos who voted for him in Nevada.

Sparagmos · Feb 24, 2020

ZNP said:
In the end it comes down to 3 choices, A, B, or none of the above. In previous elections the vast majority of eligible voters in Texas have chosen "none of the above". College can easily cost $240,000 over 4 years, I have yet to see a Presidential campaign that was offering to impact my life by that amount. Seriously, if choice A is save $240,000 and choice B is Trump how can that not be a major motivating issue?

Like Bernie, I’m a supporter of publicly funded education through college, but it wouldn’t pay for $60,000/yr colleges. It would be at state universities and community colleges.

athenken · Feb 24, 2020

Sparagmos said:
You seem to be ignoring the large numbers of Latinos who voted for him in Nevada.

Large numbers my eye. There were a total of about 3400 people who voted for him within the democratic party during the primary. There were more people waiting to go to the bathroom at the last Trump rally.

athenken · Feb 24, 2020

ZNP said:
Henry Ford paid a lot more than the market value so that he could get a stable work force that didn't quit. So when the factories shut down what looked like a great job was a terrible one.
Now you might think that oil change and brake repair are skills that won't go away. But, new cars have sensors that tell you when these things need to be serviced. That removes the most valuable part of auto repair from the equation, diagnosing the problem.
We used to think driving a truck was a good job that wouldn't go away. But now we have self driving cars, truck driving as a career is going to shrink. Factory workers got replaced by robots. Soon delivery workers will be replaced by drones.
3d printing has printed houses and buildings for a fraction of the cost and time that it would have taken for builders.
Human history has shown us that you have to keep growing, and school and study have become more and more essential.

There will always be jobs in construction. There will always be welding jobs, pipe fitters, electricians, plumbers, hvac/heating jobs, etc... All you have to do is look for them. Sure, as economies ebb and flow, but plenty of other jobs are affected by the economy as well, including office jobs. The point is, the more marketable skills you have under your belt the better you are to handle those down turns by keeping the money coming in by doing side jobs. People who work in the trades make good money, and they earn a higher wage starting out than many other professions.

Bernie May Be Unstoppable By March 18th (or even by March 4th)

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