The REAL Harmony of Christ's Olivet Discourse

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

It's going to take some time to cover all this properly, per God's written Word and not men's doctrines. It will span Revelation 6, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, and some of Daniel 9 & 11, and possibly some of Revelation 9 through 17.

And right off the bat let me make it clear; I am not covering this from any of men's denomination systems. I am not a Preterist, nor a Historicist, nor a Futurist. I believe in staying in God's Holy Writ as written, and not trying to change Scripture which all of those systems do, and often.

Matt 24:1-3
24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

When our Lord Jesus and His disciples went out of the temple, they marveled at the buildings there on the temple mount in Jerusalem. Then our Lord showed the day would come when all those great stones of those buildings would be cast down. His disciples then showed they understood He was speaking of the end of this present world about that, with "... and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

This same matter of the stones of the Jerusalem temple is written of in Mark 13:1-4 and Luke 21:5-7. It's important to note that the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, which is a leftover wall foundation of huge stones about the old temple complex, are still standing one atop another today. That marks the 70 A.D. destruction of the temple by the Romans as only a partial fulfillment of this prophecy.

Our Lord Jesus then begins to give them seven main signs of the end leading up to His 2nd coming. They are the Seals He gave in His Revelation in Chapter 6, and both should be studied together. While Jesus was upon the Mount of Olives discoursing with His disciples, that is what is called the 'Olivet Discourse'. That discourse is recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, each Gospel Chapter giving a little bit different information.

The 1st Sign:
Matt 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in My name, saying, "I am Christ"; and shall deceive many.
KJV

His 1st warning sign is that of man's deception. These that were to come claiming to be Christ has been happening ever since His disciples' days, and still today. They are not the final Antichrist. These represent the "many antichrists" followers of The Antichrist. The final Antichrist is still yet to come. Apostles Paul and John cover this point also in 2 Thessalonians 2 and in Revelation. Mark 13:5-6 and Luke 21:8 repeat this 1st warning.

The 1st Seal:
Rev 6:2
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
KJV

That is the 1st sign Jesus warned us about, the idea of deception, don't let any man deceive us. That rider on the white horse is the coming Antichrist. He is mimicking how our Lord Jesus is to return riding a white horse per Revelation 19. That makes that a special warning against deception for the end. Further on in Matthew 24 our Lord Jesus will stress this specific deception by the final Antichrist in Jerusalem for the end of this world. This rider has a bow of cheap fabric and wears a wreath crown. Our Lord Jesus in Rev.19 wears many crowns, and has a sword that cuts both ways. There's how you know this rider here is a fake.

(cont.)

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

The 2nd Sign:
Matt 24:6
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
KJV

Same thing is written in Mark 13:7 and Luke 21:9.

The 2nd Seal:
Rev 6:3-4
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
KJV

The 2nd Sign and Seal is about a war horse. It's very, very important to notice what our Lord Jesus said about that Sign. He said don't be worried when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, because why? Because the end is not... yet. Boy, isn't what most preachers teach about the end is about WWIII? Then how does our Lord Jesus here mean don't be troubled, because the end is not yet? If the end doesn't come with war, then what KIND of time will it be? If you said a time of peace, you guessed right. That si what He is saying, i.e., as long as we hear of wars and rumors of war, then the very end is still not yet.

That would mean do not... get all upset when your preacher starts preaching all out WWIII for the end. He simply is following a seminary line, and not what Jesus showed us here about the end. And if you doubt, go to 1 Thessalonians 5 and read what Apostle Paul showed what kind of time the end will be when the deceived will say, "Peace and safety".

The 3rd Sign:
Matt 24:7-8
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
KJV

That is also written in Mark 13:8 and Luke 21:10-11.

The 3rd Seal:
Rev 6:5-6
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
KJV

The result of war of course, are famines, pestilences, etc. These events are of the 3rd Seal. The balances represent commerce, and the idea of a measure of wheat for a penny represents money inflation, taking a high wage just to buy a loaf of bread. But they (the enemy) is told not to hurt the Oil nor the Wine.

What are those symbols of per God's Word? The Oil represents The Holy Spirit, and the Wine represents the purity of God's Word through His Son. That is a Message for His elect, that His Word and The Holy Spirit will NOT... be cut off to them in these last days. What instead are some of today's preachers teaching about that? They are saying The Holy Spirit is going to be removed off the earth with a pre-trib rapture of the Church. Not written folks. That's a dream by men. The Church will go through the coming great tribulation.

(cont.)

summerville · Feb 23, 2020

Davy said:
It's going to take some time to cover all this properly, per God's written Word and not men's doctrines. It will span Revelation 6, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, and some of Daniel 9 & 11, and possibly some of Revelation 9 through 17.

And right off the bat let me make it clear; I am not covering this from any of men's denomination systems. I am not a Preterist, nor a Historicist, nor a Futurist. I believe in staying in God's Holy Writ as written, and not trying to change Scripture which all of those systems do, and often.

Matt 24:1-3
24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

When our Lord Jesus and His disciples went out of the temple, they marveled at the buildings there on the temple mount in Jerusalem. Then our Lord showed the day would come when all those great stones of those buildings would be cast down. His disciples then showed they understood He was speaking of the end of this present world about that, with "... and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

This same matter of the stones of the Jerusalem temple is written of in Mark 13:1-4 and Luke 21:5-7. It's important to note that the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, which is a leftover wall foundation of huge stones about the old temple complex, are still standing one atop another today. That marks the 70 A.D. destruction of the temple by the Romans as only a partial fulfillment of this prophecy.

Our Lord Jesus then begins to give them seven main signs of the end leading up to His 2nd coming. They are the Seals He gave in His Revelation in Chapter 6, and both should be studied together. While Jesus was upon the Mount of Olives discoursing with His disciples, that is what is called the 'Olivet Discourse'. That discourse is recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, each Gospel Chapter giving a little bit different information.

The 1st Sign:
Matt 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in My name, saying, "I am Christ"; and shall deceive many.
KJV

His 1st warning sign is that of man's deception. These that were to come claiming to be Christ has been happening ever since His disciples' days, and still today. They are not the final Antichrist. These represent the "many antichrists" followers of The Antichrist. The final Antichrist is still yet to come. Apostles Paul and John cover this point also in 2 Thessalonians 2 and in Revelation. Mark 13:5-6 and Luke 21:8 repeat this 1st warning.

The 1st Seal:
Rev 6:2
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
KJV

That is the 1st sign Jesus warned us about, the idea of deception, don't let any man deceive us. That rider on the white horse is the coming Antichrist. He is mimicking how our Lord Jesus is to return riding a white horse per Revelation 19. That makes that a special warning against deception for the end. Further on in Matthew 24 our Lord Jesus will stress this specific deception by the final Antichrist in Jerusalem for the end of this world. This rider has a bow of cheap fabric and wears a wreath crown. Our Lord Jesus in Rev.19 wears many crowns, and has a sword that cuts both ways. There's how you know this rider here is a fake.

(cont.)

The Western Wall is what is left of the Fortress Antonia.

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

The 4th Sign:
Matt 24:8
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
KJV

Luke 21:11
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
KJV

The 4th Sign are these sorrows that begin on the 3rd Seal and increase.

The 4th Seal:
Rev 6:7-8
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
KJV

The 4th Sign and Seal is about Death controlling over a 4th part of the earth. The tools he uses are:

1. the sword - in contrast to Christ's Sword which comes out of His mouth per Rev.19. Thus Mr. Death also uses a sword out of his mouth, lies!
2. with hunger - literal and spiritual famine; did you know God said there will be a famine in the end not for bread or water, but for looking for The Word of God and not finding it (Amos 8:11).
3. with death - spiritual death of the soul. That is where the main battle in the end is, not with literal weapons of war, but with spiritual weapons to hunt your soul! Spiritual death of the soul in the future "lake of fire" is more permanent than flesh death. Remember Jesus said to not fear those who can kill your flesh, but not your soul; but fear Him Who can destroy both your body and soul in the "lake of fire" (Matthew 10:28).
4. the beasts of the earth -- Satan's little elves on earth, that are working to overthrow all powers here on earth, trying to establish this world as Satan's literal kingdom.

The 5th Sign:
Matt 24:9-14
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
KJV

This is also covered in Mark 13:9-13 and Luke 21:12-19.

The 5th Seal:
Rev 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
KJV

The 5th Sign and Seal is about giving a Testimony for Jesus Christ when delivered up to councils and the synagogue of Satan. These represent Christ's elect that will not be deceived by the coming Antichrist, nor will it be able for any man to deceive them, because they are 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit and Jesus already owns them. This delivering up will especially be for the very end of this world, during the time of "great tribulation" Jesus will mention here in a later verse. This reveals another huge Truth. It reveals Christ's Church will still be here on earth for the time of great tribulation.

(cont.)

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

The 6th Sign:
Matt 24:15-19
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

I'm going to break this down starting here because this 6th Sign and Seal is very, very important about the very end of this world.

Our Lord Jesus refers to the event in Daniel 11:31 about the false one placing an idol abomination in the temple. This event has not happened yet. A type blueprint of it happened back in 165 B.C. with Antiochus IV who took Jerusalem, went inside the temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar spiritually desolating it, and then he setup a idol upon it in pagan worship of Zeus (this per the Jewish historian Josephus). Thing is with this prophecy Jesus gave though, it was about 200 years after Antiochus had done that and was dead. So our Lord Jesus is giving this event for the future, for the end of this world. It has not happened yet. Further proof of this in Matthew 24 is coming up.

Here is the Mark 13 version of the above...

Mark 13:14-16
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
KJV

In both the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 versions, we are shown specifically about the time of the "abomination of desolation" idol in false worship from the Book of Daniel. And with that Jesus told those in Judea to get out of that area. That is tribulation time, the period of 1260 days or 42 months the dragon is to reign per Revelation 13, and when the Gentiles are to tread the holy city for 42 months per Revelation 11, within the 6th trumpet - 2nd Woe period. Jesus will end that tribulation with the battle of Armageddon when He comes with His army to fight (Revelation 16:15-21).

Here is the Luke 21 version which is just a little different...

Luke 21:20-22
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
KJV

That is not... the "abomination of desolation" event of the Book of Daniel. That idea of Jerusalem being surround by the armies of Christ's enemies is about the taking of Jerusalem by the final Antichrist. It's about the event of Revelation 11:1-2 with the Gentiles who will tread the holy city for 42 months on the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing. In case you're not aware, there's only 3 Woe periods, each one attached to one of the last 3 trumpets. Jesus returns to take over all nations on the 7th trumpet - 3rd Woe, so what timing do you think the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe would be??? That's right, the time of "great tribulation" for the very end of this world, a time just prior to Christ's return on the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe, a time that has not yet happened on earth.

Our Lord warns those in Judea then to get out, and He also warns those of His in the countries (us), to do what? To not enter into that area. And why's that? In the next verse there He warns about "... the days of vengeance, that all things written may be fulfilled." That's about the event in Isaiah 61:2 which Jesus did not read in Luke 4. It's about the day of Christ's 2nd coming which is still future to us. That is the day of God's vengeance upon the wicked, ending this present world. That is when Jesus will come to do battle against His enemies on earth, with a great shaking of this earth that will topple all those stones at the temple mount in Jerusalem, including the still standing Wailing Wall. We see then, this Luke 21 description isn't disagreeing with the "abomination of desolation" event being about the placing of an idol in a temple in Jerusalem for the very end. It just mentions instead Antichrist's armies surrounding Jerusalem in prep for the battle of Armageddon (see Revelation 16 and Zephaniah 3:8).

Matt.24:19
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, he is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, he is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV

The "woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" is about the spiritual metaphor given in Isaiah 54, which Jesus also applied to the deceived daughters of Jerusalem in Luke 23:26-30. It's about the idea of travailing with child in the spiritual false worship sense, not in the literally pregnant sense. If you are caught 'with child', spiritually, when Jesus comes, it means you fell to worship the fake Jesus that comes first, i.e., the Antichrist.

That is who our Lord Jesus is especially warning His elect about here in these above verses, the coming Antichrist as a pseudo-Messiah in Jerusalem. That is going to be like a time on earth never seen before, nor ever will be again. That idea in itself points directly --- to the very end of this world when Jesus will return! If that kind of time had been seen on earth already, our Lord Jesus would have already been here, and this present world would have been over.

Jesus is more emphatic about that pseudo-Messiah coming to deceive, playing Him. He shows that fake Christ will work great signs and wonders that IF... possible, even the very elect would be deceived. His elect cannot be deceived. So... if they almost could be, then what level of power of deception would that Antichrist work to do that? It means the rest of the world won't stand a chance! (the phrase "false Christs" in the KJV is the Greek word pseudochristos in the manuscripts. It's from 2 Greek wordd, pseudo which means false, and Christos which is singular and means Christ. This is also why Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defined that Greek word as "a spurious Messiah". The context of Matthew 24:23-26 is all singular, about a particular pseudo-Christ that's to appear in Jerusalem working miracles at the end of this world. John was shown this also in Revelation 13:11-14. Paul was shown it also, per 2 Thessalonians 2:4.)

(cont.)

summerville · Feb 23, 2020

Davy said:
The 6th Sign:
Matt 24:15-19
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

I'm going to break this down starting here because this 6th Sign and Seal is very, very important about the very end of this world.

Our Lord Jesus refers to the event in Daniel 11:31 about the false one placing an idol abomination in the temple. This event has not happened yet. A type blueprint of it happened back in 165 B.C. with Antiochus IV who took Jerusalem, went inside the temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar spiritually desolating it, and then he setup a idol upon it in pagan worship of Zeus (this per the Jewish historian Josephus). Thing is with this prophecy Jesus gave though, it was about 200 years after Antiochus had done that and was dead. So our Lord Jesus is giving this event for the future, for the end of this world. It has not happened yet. Further proof of this in Matthew 24 is coming up.

Here is the Mark 13 version of the above...

Mark 13:14-16
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
KJV

In both the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 versions, we are shown specifically about the time of the "abomination of desolation" idol in false worship from the Book of Daniel. And with that Jesus told those in Judea to get out of that area. That is tribulation time, the period of 1260 days or 42 months the dragon is to reign per Revelation 13, and when the Gentiles are to tread the holy city for 42 months per Revelation 11, within the 6th trumpet - 2nd Woe period. Jesus will end that tribulation with the battle of Armageddon when He comes with His army to fight (Revelation 16:15-21).

Here is the Luke 21 version which is just a little different...

Luke 21:20-22
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
KJV

That is not... the "abomination of desolation" event of the Book of Daniel. That idea of Jerusalem being surround by the armies of Christ's enemies is about the taking of Jerusalem by the final Antichrist. It's about the event of Revelation 11:1-2 with the Gentiles who will tread the holy city for 42 months on the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing. In case you're not aware, there's only 3 Woe periods, each one attached to one of the last 3 trumpets. Jesus returns to take over all nations on the 7th trumpet - 3rd Woe, so what timing do you think the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe would be??? That's right, the time of "great tribulation" for the very end of this world, a time that has not yet happened on earth.

Our Lord warns those in Judea then to get out, and He also warns those of His in the countries (us), to do what? To not enter into that area. And why's that? In the next verse there He warns about "... the days of vengeance, that all things written may be fulfilled." That's about the event in Isaiah 61:2 which Jesus did not read in Luke 4. It's about the day of Christ's 2nd coming which is still future to us. That is the day of God's vengeance upon the wicked, ending this present world. That is when Jesus will come to do battle against His enemies on earth, with a great shaking of this earth that will topple all those stones at the temple mount in Jerusalem, including the still standing Wailing Wall. We see then, this Luke 21 description isn't disagreeing with the "abomination of desolation" event being about the placing of an idol in a temple in Jerusalem for the very end. It just mentions instead Antichrist's armies surrounding Jerusalem in prep for Armageddon (see Revelation 16 and Zephaniah 3:8).

Matt.24:19
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, he is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, he is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV

The "woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" is about the spiritual metaphor given in Isaiah 54, which Jesus also applied to the deceived daughters of Jerusalem in Luke 23. It's about the idea of travailing with child in the spiritual false worship sense, not in the literally pregnant sense. If you are caught 'with child', spiritually, when Jesus comes, it means you fell to worship the fake Jesus that comes first, i.e., the Antichrist.

That is who our Lord Jesus is especially warning His elect about here in these above verses, the coming Antichrist as a pseudo-Messiah in Jerusalem. That is going to be like a time on earth never seen before, nor ever will be again. That idea in itself points directly --- to the very end of this world when Jesus will return! If that kind of time had every been seen on earth already, our Lord Jesus would have already been here, and this present world would have been over.

Jesus even is more emphatic about that pseudo-Messiah coming to deceive, playing Him. He shows that fake Christ will work great signs and wonders that IF... possible, even the very elect would be deceived. His elect cannot be deceived. So... if they almost could be, then what level of power of deception would that Antichrist work to do that? It means the rest of the world won't stand a chance! (the word "false Christs" in the KJV is the Greek word pseudochristos in the manuscripts. It's from 2 Greek word, pseudo which means false, and Christos which is singular and means Christ. The context of Matthew 24:23-26 is all singular, about a particular pseudo-Christ that's to appear in Jerusalem working miracles at the end of this world. John was shown this also in Revelation 13:11-14. Paul was shown it also, per 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Daniel 11:31 has already happened.. The Temple was rededicated three years later. That's why the Jews celebrate Hannukah.

Lost4words · Feb 23, 2020

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

The 6th Seal -- Part 1:
Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
KJV

Based on keeping to the type of events written in God's Word for the end, this 6th Seal is divided into 2 parts. This first part covers the time of great tribulation, the grand conspiracy of deception by the coming Antichrist at the very end of this world, just prior to our Lord Jesus' return.

We were already shown once back in Revelation 12 about the idea of stars (angels) being cast down to the earth with the dragon. That is what this reference to the "even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs" is about. It's about the idea of the winter fig. There is a fig in the middle east that grows in the winter, and falls off in the spring. This is a pretty deep metaphor, but you should grasp it if... you well understand that our Lord Jesus showed that His coming is at harvest time in the 'summer'. Therefore, if you are harvested in the winter or spring, that would mean what? It would mean you were harvested early, and are like the untimely fig that falls off in spring. Literally, it would mean you didn't wait and were instead gathered by the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah who comes first.

So this first part of the 6th Seal represents the coming of the dragon (Antichrist), and his untimely deception of false worship. It links to the "abomination of desolation" he will setup in Jerusalem during the coming tribulation.

The 6th Seal -- Part 2:
Rev 6:14-17
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
KJV

When the heavens depart as a scroll, and every mountain and island is shaken out of its place, you should well know that is a major sign of the end of this present world.

That is why all the great men on earth will seek to hide on that day, from what, or whom? From our Lord Jesus Christ. That represents the day of His 2nd coming back to this earth. That is the day when His army will fight the battle of Armageddon and shake the kingdoms of this world, making them His (Revelation 11:14-15; Revelation 16:15-17; Revelation 19:13-21).

(cont.)

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

The 7th Final Sign:
Matt 24:27-31
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

In contrast to how the Antichrist will come on the scene in our near future, our Lord Jesus shows how He will return. Revelation 1 shows every eye will see His 2nd coming, even those who pierced Him, meaning the orthodox unbelieving Jews.

Our Lord Jesus showed His that day when He will return is "Immediately after the tribulation of those days", so there's no mistaking that His coming will be at the very end of this present world in our near future, and that it will literally end the reign of Antichrist and his wicked servants here on earth.

Our Lord Jesus also shows us there that He will send His angels to gather His Church from both Heaven, and those that are still alive on earth at that time. With that trumpet, the "last trump" of 1 Corinthians 15:52, and the "trump of God" per 1 Thessalonians 4:16, He will send His angels to gather His elect Church "from one end of heaven to the other." Who do you think those are about? Those are about the asleep saints that Apostle Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4 that Jesus will bring with Him when He comes.

Notice a difference with the Mark 13 version of that...

Mark 13:26-27
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

That Mark 13 version of Christ's coming mentions His elect being gathered from where? From "the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven". That is about His Church that is still alive on earth when He comes.

Therefore, in these two examples He showed the SAME thing about the gathering of His Church that Apostle Paul did in 1 Thessalonians 4. Jesus brings the asleep saints that had already died with Him when He comes, and then those of His still alive on earth are caught up to Him and them. But that's not all folks. Zechariah 14 and Acts 1 reveal the spot of His return. It is right there upon the Mount of Olives where this prophecy of these 7 end signs were given.

The 7th final Sign was given within the 6th Seal of Revelation 6. I covered it in the previous post. That might be confusing to some because they don't stick to the actual type of events written, and instead are hypnotized by number sequences. The Seals are about the giving of information about the end, just as was the purpose of Jesus giving the 7 Signs of the end in His Olivet Discourse.

(cont.)

Josheb · Feb 23, 2020

Davy said:
I believe in staying in God's Holy Writ as written, and not trying to change Scripture which all of those systems do, and often.

Matt 24:1-3
24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" KJV

When our Lord Jesus and His disciples went out of the temple, they marveled at the buildings there on the temple mount in Jerusalem. Then our Lord showed the day would come when all those great stones of those buildings would be cast down. His disciples then showed they understood He was speaking of the end of this present world about that, with "... and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

If this is where you begin then you have violated your own metric and not stuck solely to the holy write but to "men's systems." What you've done is quote from the King James but in this particular case the King James is not a very good translation of what the Greek manuscripts state.

The verse, Matthew 24:3 ends with the word "aiōnos," which is accurately translated "age" not "world." Aiōnos means "a period of time," "a cycle of time," or an age. It does not mean "world." The Greek words for world are "kosmos" and "oikoumenēs." The former literally means order r adornment and references the world's system or organization, and the latter is a reference to the earth, particularly the inhabited earth.

The disciples were not asking Jesus when the world was coming to an end. What they were asking had to do with what had happened eariler that day when Jesus lambasted the Pharisees and scribes and told them judgment was coming upon them and what Jesus said in reference to their wonderous statements about the temple and his telling them the temple was going to be destroyed. That is what prompted their three=pronged question. That is the scripture-informed context of their inquiry. That is the context of Jesus reply to their three-pronged question which is accurately transliterated,

"was sitting now he upon the mount of olives, came to him the disciples in private saying, "Tell us when these things will be, and what is the sign of your coming, and of the consummation of the age?"

If there is any doubt then look it up for yourself and verify what I just wrote.

So Jesus and the disciples are sitting on the Mount of Olives, which sits across the saddle opposite Jerusalem and is just a few hundred feet above the temple's roof. Looking down upon the temple his disciples ask him,

"When will these things be?" (these things you've said earlier today)

"What is the sign of your coming?"

"What is the sign of the consummation of the age?"

That is what Jesus was asked and everything that follows should be understood within that context.

Not the end of the world.

The end of the age.

Davy said:
His disciples then showed they understood He was speaking of the end of this present world

No, the disciples did not expect Jesus to die and the world to come to and end. They were asking about the end of the temple. They were asking about the end of the Pharisees upon whom Jesus had just declared woe.

So let's do what you said and stick to the holy writ and not errant translations of the holy writ.

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

Parable of The Fig Tree:

This parable is about time recognition of these 7 Signs our Lord Jesus gave us, so we could prepare for His return, and especially, not be deceived by the coming Antichrist just prior to Christ's return.

Matt 24:32-37
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

When the fig tree branch is yet tender, sprouting leaves, like in the spring, you know summer harvest time is just around the corner. Likewise, when you begin to see "all these things", then know the end is near, even at the door. I have to stress the idea He said of seeing "all these things". What 'things'? These Signs He gave us in His Olivet Discourse, or course.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

There, He said again, "all these things", meaning the 7 Signs He gave us there. Will you know they are all fulfilled if you see Christ coming in the clouds as written? You bet you will know all those 7 Signs will have been fulfilled right then! So what... generation is He talking about that won't pass that will 'see' "all these things"? He is pointing to the final generation on this earth that will literally 'see' His coming in the clouds. THAT... is when ALL 7 of these Signs will be fulfilled, not back 2,000 years ago, not 100 years ago, but in the FINAL flesh generation born on this earth. That of course means the generation that will experience the time of "great tribulation", a time on earth that has never been the likes before, nor ever will be again.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV

Who doesn't know that the idea of heaven and earth passing away is about the day of His coming with the "day of the Lord" event Peter told us about in 2 Peter 3:10, when all the elements of this world and man's works are burned off the earth by God's consuming fire?

Those who claim all these Signs are already past history really show their ignorance, don't they? Don't listen to them. Listen to God in His Word by The Holy Spirit. Cease ye from man, God says in Isaiah 2:22.

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

summerville said:
The Western Wall is what is left of the Fortress Antonia.

"When the Romans razed the Temple, they left one outer wall standing. They probably would have destroyed that wall as well, but it must have seemed too insignificant to them since it was not part of the Temple itself, just a retaining wall surrounding the Temple Mount." (from History & Overivew of the Western Wall)

There are still huge stones standing on top of one another at that temple mount. Arguing that the Wailing Wall stones don't count is a show of ignorance.

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

summerville said:
Daniel 11:31 has already happened.. The Temple was rededicated three years later. That's why the Jews celebrate Hannukah.

The Daniel 11:31 event is a 'type'. It supports what Antiochus IV did in 165 B.C.

Problem with that is, about 200 years after Antiochus IV, Jesus quoted about that event happening in the future. Some just cannot do math.

summerville · Feb 23, 2020

Davy said:
"When the Romans razed the Temple, they left one outer wall standing. They probably would have destroyed that wall as well, but it must have seemed too insignificant to them since it was not part of the Temple itself, just a retaining wall surrounding the Temple Mount." (from History & Overivew of the Western Wall)

There are still huge stones standing on top of one another at that temple mount. Arguing that the Wailing Wall stones don't count is a show of ignorance.

The Jews didn't pray at the Western Wall until 1500 AD.

The Temple Mount during the Roman period – Ritmeyer ...
https://www.ritmeyer.com/2014/12/02/the-temple-mount-during-the-roman-period

After nationalistic uprisings, Hadrian flattened the city and in 135 A.D. built a new one on its ruins and called it Aelia Capitolina. The major buildings in this city were the Damascus Gate in the north, a Temple of Aphrodite, two forums (market places) and there may have been a Temple of Jupiter on the Temple Mount.

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

Josheb said:
If this is where you begin then you have violated your own metric and not stuck solely to the holy write but to "men's systems." What you've done is quote from the King James but in this particular case the King James is not a very good translation of what the Greek manuscripts state.

The verse, Matthew 24:3 ends with the word "aiōnos," which is accurately translated "age" not "world." Aiōnos means "a period of time," "a cycle of time," or an age. It does not mean "world." The Greek words for world are "kosmos" and "oikoumenēs." The former literally means order r adornment and references the world's system or organization, and the latter is a reference to the earth, particularly the inhabited earth.
....

And everything you just said falls apart, because the KJV translation of Greek aion can also be about the future world to come, which obviously is NOT about this present world.

Mark 10:30
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
KJV

Thus your little Preterist trick play on the Greek word 'aion' falls flat.

summerville · Feb 23, 2020

Josheb said:
If this is where you begin then you have violated your own metric and not stuck solely to the holy write but to "men's systems." What you've done is quote from the King James but in this particular case the King James is not a very good translation of what the Greek manuscripts state.

The verse, Matthew 24:3 ends with the word "aiōnos," which is accurately translated "age" not "world." Aiōnos means "a period of time," "a cycle of time," or an age. It does not mean "world." The Greek words for world are "kosmos" and "oikoumenēs." The former literally means order r adornment and references the world's system or organization, and the latter is a reference to the earth, particularly the inhabited earth.

The disciples were not asking Jesus when the world was coming to an end. What they were asking had to do with what had happened eariler that day when Jesus lambasted the Pharisees and scribes and told them judgment was coming upon them and what Jesus said in reference to their wonderous statements about the temple and his telling them the temple was going to be destroyed. That is what prompted their three=pronged question. That is the scripture-informed context of their inquiry. That is the context of Jesus reply to their three-pronged question which is accurately transliterated,

"was sitting now he upon the mount of olives, came to him the disciples in private saying, "Tell us when these things will be, and what is the sign of your coming, and of the consummation of the age?"

If there is any doubt then look it up for yourself and verify what I just wrote.

So Jesus and the disciples are sitting on the Mount of Olives, which sits across the saddle opposite Jerusalem and is just a few hundred feet above the temple's roof. Looking down upon the temple his disciples ask him,

"When will these things be?" (these things you've said earlier today)

"What is the sign of your coming?"

"What is the sign of the consummation of the age?"

That is what Jesus was asked and everything that follows should be understood within that context.

Not the end of the world.

The end of the age.

No, the disciples did not expect Jesus to die and the world to come to and end. They were asking about the end of the temple. They were asking about the end of the Pharisees upon whom Jesus had just declared woe.

So let's do what you said and stick to the holy writ and not errant translations of the holy writ.

Yes.. It was the end of an age NOT the end of the world. People Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey have really screwed up Christian beliefs.

ewq1938 · Feb 23, 2020

summerville said:
The Western Wall is what is left of the Fortress Antonia.

The Roman's did not build the western wall. They may have added to it but it is original construction and at at its base, far underground is the largest stone man has ever shaped and moved into a construction project. There are 28 stone layers above the ground and 17 underground and that's where the largest stone is found and it weighs 570 tons. In comparison, the largest stone in the Great Pyramid weighs 11 tons.

Western Wall (BiblePlaces.com)

The last picture shows this stone. There comes a time when all of these stones will not be atop one another.

Josheb · Feb 24, 2020

Davy said:
And everything you just said falls apart, because the KJV translation of Greek aion can also be about the future world to come, which obviously is NOT about this present world.

You stated a lack of interest in the machinations of men quite plainly and in its place asserted solely the holy writ of God. The statement above just posted is not what the word of God actually states. It is not even what the KJV actually states. That statement above is an addition to both the word of God AND the KJV.

Aion means what it means and when you try to defend something that aion does not mean then you are not only not relying on the word of God as written, plainly read, but you are contradicting your own values. Preterism has nothing to do with that. So when you trot out derisive comments about preterism every understands that is a red herring and an inability to stay post-relevant has been demonstrated.

Nothing is won when posting post another mistranslated verse to defend an addition-to-holy-writ interpretation of the KJV translation. Had the disciples meant the end of this world's nature they would have used kosmos or oikoumene, not aion. They used aion. At least that is what Matthew tells us they said.

They were not asking about the end of the world.
Jesus was not answering is regard to the end of the world.

They asked about the end of the age and Jesus told them what the signs would be pertaining to the end of the age. Understanding these facts helps us to have real harmony with all of God's word, not just the Olivet Discourse.

Davy said:
.
Mark 10:30
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
KJV

Thus your little Preterist trick play on the Greek word 'aion' falls flat.

lol! Nope, no "preterist trick' required. Red herrings and ad hominems are fallacious.

In Mark 10:30 Jesus is quite plainly saying there will be houses and siblings and land. These don't exist if the world has ended. Scripture, reason, and logic are our friends and should be used for knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. The world is not coming to an end in Matthew 24:3 nor Mark 10:30.

Look at your response to my op-reply. I listed a number of very plain, simple, and easily verified facts pertaining to Matthew 24:3 and you ignored every single one of them, preferring to defend the KJV, not the holy writ of God.

If what I posted is correct, and it is only some of the relevant information contained in that passage then 1) we have consensus, 2) we have a basis for understand what else the text reports, and 3) you're going to have change the op..... which, presumably, you're interested and willing to do if you truly wish to rely solely on God's word as written, plainly read, properly exegeted.

Jesus is answering a three-pronged question.
Jesus is doing so based on some things he'd said earlier that day that have the disciples curious.

You cannot rationally deny those facts, Davy. It has nothing to do with preterism and everything to do with what the holy writ actually states when read as written.

summerville · Feb 24, 2020

ewq1938 said:
The Roman's did not build the western wall. They may have added to it but it is original construction and at at its base, far underground is the largest stone man has ever shaped and moved into a construction project. There are 28 stone layers above the ground and 17 underground and that's where the largest stone is found and it weighs 570 tons. In comparison, the largest stone in the Great Pyramid weighs 11 tons.

Western Wall (BiblePlaces.com)

The last picture shows this stone. There comes a time when all of these stones will not be atop one another.

Very little of the Western Wall built by Herod remains.. Hadrian rebuilt it.. Archaeologists say there is a distinctive difference in the way the stones were dressed. The Jews began praying there after the expulsions from Spain and Portugal.

Largest stones? LOLOL.. Nope. See Byblos and Baalbek.

Josheb · Feb 24, 2020

summerville said:
Yes.. It was the end of an age NOT the end of the world. People Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey have really screwed up Christian beliefs.

And there is not going to be any "real harmony" of scripture thinking the Matthew 24:3 is about the end of the world.

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