Lets vote for the Bible to be our form of government- #vote for God

Archivist · Feb 22, 2020

createdtoworship said:
God can answer a prayer however He wants but He guarantees answers to prayer if you are living in obedience and if you are not praying 'to consume it upon your lust." So if you pray to get rich, well that could actually sabotage your faith. So He probably won't answer that. But if for example I pray for a theocracy, and I am not doing it for myself but for others, and if I am living an obedient life (repenting of known sin), and being honest and open about my sin to God. He will answer. It does not mean He will say yes, but He will answer. He promises that. And once you get the hang of prayer, I will say this....it's yes more than no. But say that making a theocracy would ruin my faith, that somehow the popularity would be too much for me, the fame, the power, if it's all too much. Then He knows, and He factors that into the equation. But He will tell you. If He closes that door, you know it's a no. But if He leaves it open, then you are in the waiting. He does say that prayer can be a blessing to our lives. And laboring in prayer makes it more effective, and fasting and praying also increase it's effectiveness. But prayer is a tool he gives only His children and it's for our blessing. But you have to use it the right way. Those guys thought killing was ok, in the name of God. Yeah how opposite can you get from Christ's words? They really did not honor the gospel passages. And no doubt that could be why their prayer (if they prayed) was not answered in an accurate way. Notice God does not lie. He may have said yes to it. But in saying yes, it was to correct a wickedness, just like He said yes to Israel before they went to battle and lost 40,000.

Again, you are not getting this. Every theocracy in history has turned out bad. How would what you are proposing be any different?

Thomas White · Feb 22, 2020

createdtoworship said:
God can answer a prayer however He wants but He guarantees answers to prayer if you are living in obedience and if you are not praying 'to consume it upon your lust." So if you pray to get rich, well that could actually sabotage your faith. So He probably won't answer that. But if for example I pray for a theocracy, and I am not doing it for myself but for others, and if I am living an obedient life (repenting of known sin), and being honest and open about my sin to God. He will answer. It does not mean He will say yes, but He will answer. He promises that. And once you get the hang of prayer, I will say this....it's yes more than no. But say that making a theocracy would ruin my faith, that somehow the popularity would be too much for me, the fame, the power, if it's all too much. Then He knows, and He factors that into the equation. But He will tell you. If He closes that door, you know it's a no. But if He leaves it open, then you are in the waiting. He does say that prayer can be a blessing to our lives. And laboring in prayer makes it more effective, and fasting and praying also increase it's effectiveness. But prayer is a tool he gives only His children and it's for our blessing. But you have to use it the right way. Those guys thought killing was ok, in the name of God. Yeah how opposite can you get from Christ's words? They really did not honor the gospel passages. And no doubt that could be why their prayer (if they prayed) was not answered in an accurate way. Notice God does not lie. He may have said yes to it. But in saying yes, it was to correct a wickedness, just like He said yes to Israel before they went to battle and lost 40,000.

The majority of us disagree with you. You can't answer many of our questions about how it would be set up and how it would govern. Isn't that an indication that God has closed the door?

createdtoworship · Feb 22, 2020

CaspianSails said:
I understand your notion and desire but God is more interested in your heart and not your government. God's Word as government only works with those whose heart is desirous of Him. To those who do not believe the preaching of the cross is foolishness.

Well Christ's kingdom will for sure come for a 100 years. So do you say the same stuff regarding His kingdom? I hope you see what I am trting to express here. And BTW it is definately not my kingdom. It would not be a theocracy if it was about me that is for sure.

createdtoworship · Feb 22, 2020

Thomas White said:
The majority of us disagree with you. You can't answer many of our questions about how it would be set up and how it would govern. Isn't that an indication that God has closed the door?

Many people don't fully understand salvation, does that mean we don't strive to enter the narrow gate? You are using a computer or phone right now but I am fairly sure you don't understand the programming language behind said technology, does that mean God had closed the door regarding CF? Sorry but this question is not coming from a polite discourse but from a frustration simply because someone namely myself, is not like you. But just because someone is different and just because we disagree with them does not mean they are wrong and that God has revoked the calling on their life.

Thomas White · Feb 22, 2020

createdtoworship said:
Many people don't fully understand salvation, does that mean we don't strive to enter the narrow gate? You are using a computer or phone right now but I am fairly sure you don't understand the programming language behind said technology, does that mean God had closed the door regarding CF? Sorry but this question is not coming from a polite discourse but from a frustration simply because someone namely myself, is not like you. But just because someone is different and just because we disagree with them does not mean they are wrong and that God has revoked the calling on their life.

I didn't say that He revoked the calling on your life, but do you actually believe God is calling you to create a theocracy in the United States?

createdtoworship · Feb 22, 2020

Thomas White said:
I didn't say that He revoked the calling on your life, but do you actually believe God is calling you to create a theocracy in the United States?

Maybe, not entirely sure. I have the desire for sure. I believe it's God's will, but my role in it is unclear to me.

Thomas White · Feb 22, 2020

createdtoworship said:
Maybe, not entirely sure. I have the desire for sure. I believe it's God's will, but my role in it is unclear to me.

God made His will on the matter very clear. He will rule on Earth during the millennial kingdom. God's will shall be done. If this is your calling, do so with love and acceptance, not with bigotry or judgement. Only God can judge the heart of a man. Without Him present to make such judgements, a theocracy is doomed to fail.

createdtoworship · Feb 23, 2020

Archivist said:
Again, you are not getting this. Every theocracy in history has turned out bad. How would what you are proposing be any different?

the witch burnings were not God will. Can we agree on this? So then if they were not "governed by God" how can they be a theocracy? so I can argue that no theocracies have existed, not only in american history but in any country in the last several thousands of years. Secondly, even if there was a theocracy that you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt existed. (and I know you can't), but say you can and do prove that one existed, that does not mean that a theocracy cannot be done well. Lets apply this logic to other areas. Say you are learning to walk as a child and you fall, say 9 out of ten times the first week. You have a 90 percent failure rate, that does not mean you can never walk. In fact I would say the vast majority of people do end up walking even though they stumble at first. So this logic does not really follow, in fact there is a fallacy created to explain the folly of this logic. It's called "poisoning the well." And the logic is as follows: "since you made mistakes in the past, that means that you will always make mistakes." That is an assumption. Lastly these governments universally that have been mentioned made errors. And that is the very point why you are quoting their story to us here, is because they did make mistakes, witch burnings etc. So the fact that they made mistakes is proof that they did not legislate scripture fully, and/or did not listen to God's will. They may even have prayed but the prayer at that point was too late. You can't just live a life of disobedience and then pray for God to bless the mess. God desires us to follow Him. So it is this and other reasons that I do not think that these were theocracies. A true theocracy that legislates only scripture, and that prays for every decision, will succeed. As long as those in charge are faithful to God. And God has sent us His Holy Spirit to baptize us unto ministry to empower us and to fill us for such a time as this to do His will in the world.

createdtoworship · Feb 23, 2020

Thomas White said:
God made His will on the matter very clear. He will rule on Earth during the millennial kingdom. God's will shall be done. If this is your calling, do so with love and acceptance, not with bigotry or judgement. Only God can judge the heart of a man. Without Him present to make such judgements, a theocracy is doomed to fail.

I don't disagree that it would not be without hardship, but nothing in the Christian life is considered easy. We are to deny our flesh all day every day, pick up our cross and follow Christ denying our fleshly desires and submitting to the spirit. So this is not much different to me. It's just living a standard christian walk at a national level, with other people depending on you.

CaspianSails · Feb 23, 2020

createdtoworship said:
Well Christ's kingdom will for sure come for a 100 years. So do you say the same stuff regarding His kingdom? I hope you see what I am trting to express here. And BTW it is definately not my kingdom. It would not be a theocracy if it was about me that is for sure.

I do not think you can equate the millennial rule of Christ with the rule of any man made government. You post clearly spoke of creating a Biblically based government now. You nor or are Christ. His kingdom will stand forever. I look forward to that kingdom. Even the millennial reign has a unknown amount of time where Satan is loosed again and will deceive many. These are people who lived under the rule of Christ on earth. Satan will be able to raise and army and will assemble to attack Christ in His holy city. But to no avail as Christ will defeat easily. After that comes judgement, then a glorious new heaven and new earth without the touch of sin. Revelation 20 and 21. Now that is a kingdom I can look forward to. More important than creating a biblically based kingdom in our time is to fulfill the last commands of Christ before he ascended. Mathew 28:16-20. Whatever we establish on this present earth is passing away and will pass away. Our focus is not on this world but the next. Go out and win the lost for Christ if you want to make a difference. For that you will receive a crown to present to Christ.

Thomas White · Feb 23, 2020

createdtoworship said:
I don't disagree that it would not be without hardship, but nothing in the Christian life is considered easy. We are to deny our flesh all day every day, pick up our cross and follow Christ denying our fleshly desires and submitting to the spirit. So this is not much different to me. It's just living a standard christian walk at a national level, with other people depending on you.

And that's where the problem with whether or not this is a calling. You write, "with other people depending on you." On you. Not God.

createdtoworship · Feb 23, 2020

CaspianSails said:
I do not think you can equate the millennial rule of Christ with the rule of any man made government. You post clearly spoke of creating a Biblically based government now. You nor or are Christ. His kingdom will stand forever. I look forward to that kingdom. Even the millennial reign has a unknown amount of time where Satan is loosed again and will deceive many. These are people who lived under the rule of Christ on earth. Satan will be able to raise and army and will assemble to attack Christ in His holy city. But to no avail as Christ will defeat easily. After that comes judgement, then a glorious new heaven and new earth without the touch of sin. Revelation 20 and 21. Now that is a kingdom I can look forward to. More important than creating a biblically based kingdom in our time is to fulfill the last commands of Christ before he ascended. Mathew 28:16-20. Whatever we establish on this present earth is passing away and will pass away. Our focus is not on this world but the next. Go out and win the lost for Christ if you want to make a difference. For that you will receive a crown to present to Christ.

this is non sequitur, your first line of your post is referring to my conversation regarding another poster who said this:

I understand your notion and desire but God is more interested in your heart and not your government. God's Word as government only works with those whose heart is desirous of Him. To those who do not believe the preaching of the cross is foolishness.

so I was specifically referring to God being more interested in our heart than the government. That sounds really good until we realize Christ actually asks us to pray for "thy kingdom come" "they will be done in earth." AS IT IS "in heaven. So God does love our hearts and does want us to go to heaven, but Christianity is not all about heaven. It's about blessing our lives here and now. As far as your take on the millenium, I agree with all of that, as well as look forward to it.

createdtoworship · Feb 23, 2020

Thomas White said:
And that's where the problem with whether or not this is a calling. You write, "with other people depending on you." On you. Not God.

I would be the earthly vessel for God to use, but every action would be prayed over. God would directly have His wil being done. Via allowing Him to rule by His word and through His voice in prayer.

Thomas White · Feb 23, 2020

createdtoworship said:
I would be the earthly vessel for God to use, but every action would be prayed over. God would directly have His wil being done. Via allowing Him to rule by His word and through His voice in prayer.

And we would have to trust your word? God would have to answer prayers on your timeline? You would "allow" the Creator to rule?

Don't you see the problem with that mentality?

createdtoworship · Feb 23, 2020

Thomas White said:
And we would have to trust your word? God would have to answer prayers on your timeline? You would "allow" the Creator to rule?

Don't you see the problem with that mentality?

not really. I mean you are trusting trump right now. You are trusting the mayor of your town, you are trusting the congressman and senator of your district. They are all fallible. If anything we can ONLY get better by instilling God's word.

Thomas White · Feb 23, 2020

createdtoworship said:
not really. I mean you are trusting trump right now. You are trusting the mayor of your town, you are trusting the congressman and senator of your district. They are all fallible. If anything we can ONLY get better by instilling God's word.

Well, I don't trust Trump, but that's not the point. I have a choice about who I vote for. Under your system, I won't have a choice. I will just be told you are the leader, and I don't get a say.

createdtoworship · Feb 23, 2020

Thomas White said:
Well, I don't trust Trump, but that's not the point. I have a choice about who I vote for. Under your system, I won't have a choice. I will just be told you are the leader, and I don't get a say.

Well to be fair, God's will is like that. We don't get a say normally speaking. God has His will which is perfect, and our wills are based on temporary pleasure for the most part. So it's okay to have God's will instead of our own. In a theocracy won't be any different than any old typical day in a christians life. I know this is hard for you to diffrentiate, that I am not God, and I know that. I don't want to be God. I would be horrified at the idea. But I can be God's vessel on this earth to allow a type of government to experiment with His rule reigning in earth. If Jesus is good at church and in the hymnals and if Jesus is good in our hearts, Jesus can be good in our legal system. We should not respect one type of leader at church and expect a different type of leader the rest of the week not on sunday.

Thomas White · Feb 23, 2020

createdtoworship said:
Well to be fair, God's will is like that. We don't get a say normally speaking. God has His will which is perfect, and our wills are based on temporary pleasure for the most part. So it's okay to have God's will instead of our own. In a theocracy won't be any different than any old typical day in a christians life. I know this is hard for you to diffrentiate, that I am not God, and I know that. I don't want to be God. I would be horrified at the idea. But I can be God's vessel on this earth to allow a type of government to experiment with His rule reigning in earth. If Jesus is good at church and in the hymnals and if Jesus is good in our hearts, Jesus can be good in our legal system. We should not respect one type of leader at church and expect a different type of leader the rest of the week not on sunday.

But how do we know it's God's will? Many rulers and dictators have claimed to be in charge because of God's will. They have claimed to be messengers. Again, are we supposed to trust that you are this vessel? Will God answer your prayers on your timeline?

createdtoworship · Feb 23, 2020

Thomas White said:
But how do we know it's God's will? Many rulers and dictators have claimed to be in charge because of God's will. They have claimed to be messengers. Again, are we supposed to trust that you are this vessel? Will God answer your prayers on your timeline?

Just like you know Gods will in your personal life. You pray for it, you obey Him, you pray unselfish prayers, and have faith He will answer. To be honest I have a list of answered prayers over the last five years, there are two pages of answered prayers. I feel people lack faith. They don't truly believe God is out for their best interest. But He is, but He cares more about our inside our heart than about our health and wealth. We care about health and wealth and care less about the heart. God is not like that.

createdtoworship · Feb 23, 2020

I was grieved by this article.....a theocracy would change this...

Elizabeth Warren Attacks Christian Schools for Following Biblical Sexual Morality

Lets vote for the Bible to be our form of government- #vote for God

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