Does Character and Morality matter?

GaveMeJoy · Feb 22, 2020

Hello,
My dad and most of the elders of my church are big Trump fans and it’s a big letdown and very discouraging. For some of the most Godly and wise men I have ever known, these guys really throw it all out the window when it comes to politics. The purpose for this thread is for me to get additional background on how Christians sell this Trump thing to themselves while also possessing the Holy Spirit.

I don’t actually care about politics but I’m a Republican (for what it’s worth). The reason I am posting this is I want to know from actual Christians who love Jesus and seek to please him and obey his word:
1) how can you be a fan and supporter of a person with such unrepentant low moral character? I don’t mean how can you vote for him, I am aware of the “lesser of two evils” argument. But that’s not the major evangelical position, as so many Christians are fans, they actually like this person. The words that come out of his mouth, and his pride make me sick, and grieve my spirit greatly. How can you love Jesus and like this character?

Again I know why you would vote republican, I’m asking why you would defend and stand for this gross man. He’s gross, he isn’t a nice person and he isn’t moral. Lastly, I’ve prayed for him because he obviously needs Jesus. I literally can’t imagine the impact he could have if he got saved and actually changed, it would be epic!
In Christ,
J

Jamdoc · Feb 23, 2020

They do matter, and while I'm sure you'll disagree with me because Obamacare was a mess to roll out, but Trump and the current crop of Democrats (I'm an independent, I'll vote for someone sensible in either party.. too bad that's very seldom that either party is represented by someone sensible and even less likely they'll be a true God fearing man or woman) make me miss Obama.
He was a mediocre at best president but there were no sex scandals or adultery, no drunk daughters getting in trouble, no broken family. Like the Obamas or not but they were an intact Christian family even if not crazy devout about Christianity (which is more than I can say for Trump).
Now we have the most prideful man I've ever seen, who is an adulterer and liar.. with 2 Christ rejecting Orthodox "say they are Jews and are not" as his advisors, an ethnic Jew who's an Atheist (again.. says he's a jew, and is not), a man in an open homosexual relationship (nothing screams repentance from sin more than committing your life to a homosexual relationship lemme tell you..), and Bill Clinton: the Next Generation.
At this rate all I can really go for is Amy Klobaucher because, I don't have anything as bad as the rest of them on her, but I don't expect her to make it much longer.
Probably just not vote because there aren't candidates I like again. I certainly wasn't voting for either of them last time.

SkyWriting · Feb 23, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Hello,
My dad and most of the elders of my church are big Trump fans and it’s a big letdown and very discouraging. For some of the most Godly and wise men I have ever known, these guys really throw it all out the window when it comes to politics. The purpose for this thread is for me to get additional background on how Christians sell this Trump thing to themselves while also possessing the Holy Spirit.

I don’t actually care about politics but I’m a Republican (for what it’s worth). The reason I am posting this is I want to know from actual Christians who love Jesus and seek to please him and obey his word:
1) how can you be a fan and supporter of a person with such unrepentant low moral character? I don’t mean how can you vote for him, I am aware of the “lesser of two evils” argument. But that’s not the major evangelical position, as so many Christians are fans, they actually like this person. The words that come out of his mouth, and his pride make me sick, and grieve my spirit greatly. How can you love Jesus and like this character?

Again I know why you would vote republican, I’m asking why you would defend and stand for this gross man. He’s gross, he isn’t a nice person and he isn’t moral. Lastly, I’ve prayed for him because he obviously needs Jesus. I literally can’t imagine the impact he could have if he got saved and actually changed, it would be epic!
In Christ,
J

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GaveMeJoy · Feb 23, 2020

Jamdoc said:
They do matter, and while I'm sure you'll disagree with me because Obamacare was a mess to roll out, but Trump and the current crop of Democrats (I'm an independent, I'll vote for someone sensible in either party.. too bad that's very seldom that either party is represented by someone sensible and even less likely they'll be a true God fearing man or woman) make me miss Obama.
He was a mediocre at best president but there were no sex scandals or adultery, no drunk daughters getting in trouble, no broken family. Like the Obamas or not but they were an intact Christian family even if not crazy devout about Christianity (which is more than I can say for Trump).
Now we have the most prideful man I've ever seen, who is an adulterer and liar.. with 2 Christ rejecting Orthodox "say they are Jews and are not" as his advisors, an ethnic Jew who's an Atheist (again.. says he's a jew, and is not), a man in an open homosexual relationship (nothing screams repentance from sin more than committing your life to a homosexual relationship lemme tell you..), and Bill Clinton: the Next Generation.
At this rate all I can really go for is Amy Klobaucher because, I don't have anything as bad as the rest of them on her, but I don't expect her to make it much longer.
Probably just not vote because there aren't candidates I like again. I certainly wasn't voting for either of them last time.

Preaching to the choir Jam

summerville · Feb 23, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Hello,
My dad and most of the elders of my church are big Trump fans and it’s a big letdown and very discouraging. For some of the most Godly and wise men I have ever known, these guys really throw it all out the window when it comes to politics. The purpose for this thread is for me to get additional background on how Christians sell this Trump thing to themselves while also possessing the Holy Spirit.

I don’t actually care about politics but I’m a Republican (for what it’s worth). The reason I am posting this is I want to know from actual Christians who love Jesus and seek to please him and obey his word:
1) how can you be a fan and supporter of a person with such unrepentant low moral character? I don’t mean how can you vote for him, I am aware of the “lesser of two evils” argument. But that’s not the major evangelical position, as so many Christians are fans, they actually like this person. The words that come out of his mouth, and his pride make me sick, and grieve my spirit greatly. How can you love Jesus and like this character?

Again I know why you would vote republican, I’m asking why you would defend and stand for this gross man. He’s gross, he isn’t a nice person and he isn’t moral. Lastly, I’ve prayed for him because he obviously needs Jesus. I literally can’t imagine the impact he could have if he got saved and actually changed, it would be epic!
In Christ,
J

Trump has not changed.. He was the same person 40 years ago...just slimmer. Lots of people are praying for Trump. Some prayers go unanswered.

SkyWriting · Feb 23, 2020

summerville said:
Trump has not changed.. He was the same person 40 years ago...just slimmer. Lots of people are praying for Trump. Some prayers go unanswered.

God has already answered every prayer ever offered. His plans will not be changed. People who pray with Faith and Trust can see the answer.

Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Psalm 139
Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me.

Philippians 4:6-7
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Matthew 6
“And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Peter J Barban · Feb 23, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Hello,
My dad and most of the elders of my church are big Trump fans and it’s a big letdown and very discouraging. For some of the most Godly and wise men I have ever known, these guys really throw it all out the window when it comes to politics. The purpose for this thread is for me to get additional background on how Christians sell this Trump thing to themselves while also possessing the Holy Spirit.

I don’t actually care about politics but I’m a Republican (for what it’s worth). The reason I am posting this is I want to know from actual Christians who love Jesus and seek to please him and obey his word:
1) how can you be a fan and supporter of a person with such unrepentant low moral character? I don’t mean how can you vote for him, I am aware of the “lesser of two evils” argument. But that’s not the major evangelical position, as so many Christians are fans, they actually like this person. The words that come out of his mouth, and his pride make me sick, and grieve my spirit greatly. How can you love Jesus and like this character?

Again I know why you would vote republican, I’m asking why you would defend and stand for this gross man. He’s gross, he isn’t a nice person and he isn’t moral. Lastly, I’ve prayed for him because he obviously needs Jesus. I literally can’t imagine the impact he could have if he got saved and actually changed, it would be epic!
In Christ,
J

I have only voted for president once in Bush vs Kerry, but I root for Trump. Here are my reasons:

1. All people who seek power are morally suspect if not outright evil. "Power corrupts" and all that. Trump is special in that he is more transparent/unfiltered than any other president. Transparency and free press are good protections vs government overreach. "Democracy dies in darkness" and all that.

2. Trump sincerely wants America to be great and wants everyone to think he's great. If he can accomplish the first, I will grant him the second. "Give to Ceaser what is Ceasar's" and all that. Greatness is generally defined as National Security and Economic Prosperity for the masses, not just the elite.

3. Trump has the same enemies that I have and knows how to win. As Lincoln said of Grant 'I can't spare this man; he fights." Trump fights for me and better than I could.

4. Trump's pride/style doesn't bother me. In my experience, proud people are most offended by the pride of others, humble people just keep their head down and get the job done.

Jamdoc · Feb 23, 2020

Peter J Barban said:
I have only voted for president once in Bush vs Kerry, but I root for Trump. Here are my reasons:

1. All people who seek power are morally suspect if not outright evil. "Power corrupts" and all that. Trump is special in that he is more transparent/unfiltered than any other president. Transparency and free press are good protections vs government overreach. "Democracy dies in darkness" and all that.

2. Trump sincerely wants America to be great and wants everyone to think he's great. If he can accomplish the first, I will grant him the second. "Give to Ceaser what is Ceasar's" and all that. Greatness is generally defined as National Security and Economic Prosperity for the masses, not just the elite.

3. Trump has the same enemies that I have and knows how to win. As Lincoln said of Grant 'I can't spare this man; he fights." Trump fights for me and better than I could.

4. Trump's pride/style doesn't bother me. In my experience, proud people are most offended by the pride of others, humble people just keep their head down and get the job done.

1. But he argues against the free press and calls it the enemy of the people, similar to autocratic leaders. Also like autocratic leaders are unfiltered and have their evil out plain to see. That doesn't make him good.
2. Trump sincerely wants himself to be great, and uses everything else as a vehicle for himself. It's all him him him. I have never seen a more narcissistic man.
3. Your enemies are the free press, our European and East Asian Allies, and our neighbors to the south?
4. Pride is an awful sin, it shouldn't be encouraged or defended.

eleos1954 · Feb 23, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Hello,
My dad and most of the elders of my church are big Trump fans and it’s a big letdown and very discouraging. For some of the most Godly and wise men I have ever known, these guys really throw it all out the window when it comes to politics. The purpose for this thread is for me to get additional background on how Christians sell this Trump thing to themselves while also possessing the Holy Spirit.

I don’t actually care about politics but I’m a Republican (for what it’s worth). The reason I am posting this is I want to know from actual Christians who love Jesus and seek to please him and obey his word:
1) how can you be a fan and supporter of a person with such unrepentant low moral character? I don’t mean how can you vote for him, I am aware of the “lesser of two evils” argument. But that’s not the major evangelical position, as so many Christians are fans, they actually like this person. The words that come out of his mouth, and his pride make me sick, and grieve my spirit greatly. How can you love Jesus and like this character?

Again I know why you would vote republican, I’m asking why you would defend and stand for this gross man. He’s gross, he isn’t a nice person and he isn’t moral. Lastly, I’ve prayed for him because he obviously needs Jesus. I literally can’t imagine the impact he could have if he got saved and actually changed, it would be epic!
In Christ,
J

No person has sterile character/morales nor will they ever have, we all hold our noses and go vote.

The Barbarian · Feb 23, 2020

Peter J Barban said:
In my experience, proud people are most offended by the pride of others, humble people just keep their head down and get the job done.

That would explain why Trump has failed at almost everything he's tried to accomplish.

Peter J Barban · Feb 23, 2020

Hey, the OP said, "I’m asking why you would defend and stand for this gross man."

So when someone gives an honest answer, shut up with your rebuttals!

The Barbarian · Feb 24, 2020

eleos1954 said:
No person has sterile character/morales nor will they ever have, we all hold our noses and go vote.

Lack of perfect people is not a good argument for promoting sleazy people.

jgarden · Feb 24, 2020

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The Temptation of Jesus (Luke 4:1-13)

1) And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness
2) And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry.
3) The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.”
4) And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’”
5) And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time,
6) and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will.
7) If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.”
8) And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God,and Him only shall you serve.’”
9) And he took him to Jerusalem and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here,
10) for it is written, “‘He will command his angels concerning you, to guard you,’
11) and “‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”
12) And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
13) And when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from him ...
**********************************************************************************************************
Conservative American Christians weren't able to get past the temptations in verse 7

jgarden · Feb 24, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Hello,
My dad and most of the elders of my church are big Trump fans and it’s a big letdown and very discouraging. For some of the most Godly and wise men I have ever known, these guys really throw it all out the window when it comes to politics. The purpose for this thread is for me to get additional background on how Christians sell this Trump thing to themselves while also possessing the Holy Spirit.

I don’t actually care about politics but I’m a Republican (for what it’s worth). The reason I am posting this is I want to know from actual Christians who love Jesus and seek to please him and obey his word:
1) how can you be a fan and supporter of a person with such unrepentant low moral character? I don’t mean how can you vote for him, I am aware of the “lesser of two evils” argument. But that’s not the major evangelical position, as so many Christians are fans, they actually like this person. The words that come out of his mouth, and his pride make me sick, and grieve my spirit greatly. How can you love Jesus and like this character?

Again I know why you would vote republican, I’m asking why you would defend and stand for this gross man. He’s gross, he isn’t a nice person and he isn’t moral. Lastly, I’ve prayed for him because he obviously needs Jesus. I literally can’t imagine the impact he could have if he got saved and actually changed, it would be epic!
In Christ,
J

If an individual thinks that "the ends justify the means" and that one can look the other way when this President in words and actions crosses way over the line, neither of which can ever be justified biblically, then by all means vote for Trump!

If conservative Christians think that they can escape the harsh judgement of history and that of their own children once Trump leaves office, they're deluding themselves - this will remain a dark "stain" on American Christianity that won't be cleansed in our lifetime!

I truly believe that this President is mentally disturbed, lacking the capacity to care for anybody but himself - most of those surrounding him acting as "enablers," however, do know better which provide us all with a graphic example of how supposedly "good people" can succumb to temptation!

GaveMeJoy · Feb 24, 2020

jgarden said:
The Temptation of Jesus (Luke 4:1-13)
1) And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness
2) And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry.
3) The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.”
4) And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’”
5) And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time,
6) and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will.
7) If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.”
8) And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God,and Him only shall you serve.’”
9) And he took him to Jerusalem and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here,
10) for it is written, “‘He will command his angels concerning you, to guard you,’
11) and “‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”
12) And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
13) And when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from him ...
**********************************************************************************************************
Conservative American Christians weren't able to get past the temptations in verse 7

YES. Even the wise ones are foolish in this...

Does Character and Morality matter?

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