Who Changed Shabbat?

Oberamagau · Feb 22, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, happy Sabbath! I agree with many of your statements, except on the Sabbath. I show my "faith" in Jesus by obeying what He asked of those who love Him: obeying the commandments of Jesus written by His own finger before the incarnation, not because I think that I can keep the Sabbath perfectly to save myself as Jesus did, but because the proper Sabbath shows my "faith" and love for Jesus doing everything possible to obey the Sabbath commandment as I grow under the grace of God's forgiveness to obey the Sabbath better.

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. (James 2:14-18 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Observing Saturday Sabbath shows your faith to SDA-ism.

Semper-Fi · Feb 22, 2020

Bob S said:
Morning lasted until noon, so since evening is the other half of a day evening had to start at noon. You have morning lasting until sunset when evening began.

John 11:9 (KJV)
Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

Jesus said there was twelve hours in
the daytime[light] portion of a day.

The evening portion [night time]
of the day started at night fall.
A whole day was evening to evening.

Semper-Fi · Feb 22, 2020

Oberamagau said:
Observing Saturday Sabbath shows your faith to SDA-ism.

Was Jesus and Paul a SDA ?
Both held to the custom of keeping the Sabbath day.

Oberamagau · Feb 22, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
Was Jesus and Paul a SDA ?
Both held to the custom of keeping the Sabbath day.

Why did Jesus and his apostles go to the temple? They were Jewish! The temple wasn't where Christians went for their meetings, they went there because of tradition. Even AFTER the crucifixion and resurrection Jewish believers were still allowed to take part in the traditional Judaic customs, rituals and festivals OTHER THAN BLOOD SACRIFICES! That's found in Acts 21. Jesus and some of his disciples were persecuted for preaching the gospel in the Temple! The Pharisees, Scribes, and Saducees were NOT Christians and they didn't like the gospel being preached in the temple and it brought persecution upon Jesus and his disciples! Jewish believers didn't go to a Jewish temple for Christian meetings - they went there because they were Jewish and participated in their many celebrations etc.!

The biblical record is clear and there's no denying it - believers met on the first day of the week - the Lord's day' which was the day of the resurrection and Pentecost and they likely did break bread daily - BUT NOT IN THE TEMPLE!"

Acts 20:7 - "And upon the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, and continued his speech until midnight."

"And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart."

Do your SDA mentors teach you that first century Christians met in the Jewish Temple on Saturdays with members of a religion - Judiasm - a religion that denies Christ!? I hope not!

After Christ ascended the physical temple ended as the place of worship for Jewish and non-Jewish believers. Christians met in houses, and because Christianity was outlawed and Judaism wasn't, Christians were often persecuted when they were seen going to their meetings on Sunday - so to be 'under cover' - they SOMETIMES (depending if there was obvious Roman gustapo was present) went to their fellowships on Saturday because that way they blended in with Judaizers and it obvious where they were going - they didn't want to get caught! They also met in different homes every week to avoid detection!

This 'house to house' fellowship on Sunday began in Acts 2:44-46. Jewish believers still went to the Temple but held their 'Christian meetings' in homes.

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart.

So you have much to learn about what actually took place back then and what the church fathers documented about it, and what your SDA mentors are misleading you to believe.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)

“When you have Christ, you also have everything God promised through him.”

Therefore, with the coming of Christ, virtually everything has changed:

1. The blood sacrifices ceased because Christ fulfilled all that they were pointing toward. He was the final, unrepeatable sacrifice for sins.

Hebrews 9:12, “He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.”

2. The priesthood that stood between worshiper and God has ceased. Hebrews 7:23–24,

“The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever.”

3. The physical temple has ceased to be the geographic center of worship. Now, Christ himself is the center of worship. He is the “place,” the “tent,” and the “temple” where we meet God.

John 4:21, 23, “Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. . . . But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth.’”

John 2:19, 21, “‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’ . . . He [Jesus] was speaking about the temple of his body.”

Matthew 18:20, “For where two or three are gathered in my [Jesus’s] name, there am I among them.”

guevaraj · Feb 22, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
You keep saying this but the text says there was evening [night time], and there was morning [daytime]

Brother, if God had chosen to say what you think He said He would have used the words He defined in the previous sentence of "night" and "day", but chose not to use those words and instead used other words: "evening" and "morning". According to God’s use of the word "evening" in Leviticus, the words “evening” and “morning” confine the beginning and the ending of a half within two points: sunset and sunrise with a precise time that is not like the words: “day” and “night”, importantly defined in the previous sentence, but not used at the end of the first day. A half of darkness ended the first day that God called "night" from the first "evening" to the light again in the “morning” or a half from “evening” to “morning” of darkness, because the half of light came first on the first day of the creation week. What is important to notice is that "evening" to "evening" in Leviticus is not the same as "evening" to "morning" in Genesis. Between the evenings in Leviticus there is a "morning" used in Genesis that is not mentioned in Leviticus to confine the half period of the “night” that comes first in Israel’s Eden-Sabbath, but comes second in Genesis’ first day. You can't have an "evening" before there is light, the word translated as "evening" is the transition point from light to darkness that we tabulate as sunset time.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Semper-Fi · Feb 22, 2020

We know when Christ keep His Sabbath,
was the same day He gave to Israel. Gods
Oracles was persevered through Judah.
I can keep the same weekly cycle Jesus keep.

We do not even know where Eden was,
so why is this even a question?
I know God has evening to evening as a day,
that's good enough for me.

Semper-Fi · Feb 22, 2020

Oberamagau said:
The biblical record is clear and there's no denying it - believers met on the first day of the week - the Lord's day' which was the day of the resurrection and Pentecost and they likely did break bread daily
- BUT NOT IN THE TEMPLE!"

When did they Break bread in the temple?
What “Break Bread” Means is to give thanks
before a meal, not a worship service.

Pentecost was just one of Gods Holy days,
The only Sabbath you had to count 7 weeks
and it came always to 49 days. If the
disciples did not observe, they missed out.
This shows the Sabbath not tied to the month.

We can go over in the bible where
[the first day of the week] is mentioned,
and all are the first work day of the week,
not a new commanded day of worship or rest.

Where is it said to keep the resurrection?
Where is the command to keep Christmas?
Where is the command to keep Sunday?

The new testament says to keep Passover, and
the feast on the high Holy day of unleavened bread.

Also to say the Lords day is Sunday today,
has no backing what so ever from the bible.
All theses are traditions of man that's added.

Heard of the Quartodeciman Controversy?
Quartodecimanism - Wikipedia
Easter controversy - Wikipedia

That Passover should be observed in the new
Christian form introduced by Jesus and by
the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 11), using
unleavened bread and wine instead of sac-
rificing a lamb, on the eve of the 14th Nisan.

guevaraj · Feb 22, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
We know when Christ keep His Sabbath, was the same day He gave to Israel. We do not even know where Eden was, so why is this even a question? I know God has evening to evening as a day, that's good enough for me.

Brother, the true Scriptural Sabbath gives us the site of Eden from Israel and falls on the International Date Line (IDL) where God taught us to count the days to remember the Sabbath before we spread throughout the world. Israel is our example on how to remember the Sabbath correctly throughout the world. Israel "assumed" that the Sabbath remembered in Israel is one day of the week in Israel when the first day below shows that this "assumption" is wrong. There is a place on the earth where the Sabbath falls completely on the sixth day, as it falls completely on the seventh day in Eden. The Sabbath remembered in Israel is part of the sixth day and part of the seventh day as defined is the day in Genesis first day below, eliminating Sunday as a replacement for the Sabbath with the excuse that Jesus resurrected on Sunday. Jesus resurrected on the night of the seventh day, after the Eden-Sabbath remembered in Israel and before the first day at sunrise, as defined are the days in Genesis beginning with the first day below.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

pasifika · Feb 22, 2020

BobRyan said:
I drank water many times and I am sure I will continue to do so in heaven -- and in heaven I will also drink the water of life.

Heaven is wonderful - but God will not zap our brains with amnesia so that we have no appreciation at all for what Christ did for us. Rather with full appreciation of our state and rescue we will continue to see the wounds in his hands and side and remark "all this - for me", the Love of God singularly demonstrated for mankind

God "could" have zapped the brain of Lucifer at the start or zapped the brains of Adam and Eve - at once and started over... no cross of Christ, no demonstration of the problem of sin, no demonstration of the Love of God - and saved Himself a lot of pain suffering and grief as well as saving a lot of fallen angels and fallen mankind the lake of fire.

In a free will universe right-decisions are motivated by compelling evidence... this world's sin experiment provides that to safe guard all of eternity.

The other way to do it was "brain-zapping" which if that were the solution - would have been done long before causing God Himself torture on the cross

I know everyone drink water here on earth but what appreciation is it if similar water also found in the new city..same old thing nothing new...But scripture says that the things God has prepared for us is beyond our earthly thinking...and that is something to look forward and appreciated more a New creation...
God is outside of our small earthly mind...

Semper-Fi · Feb 22, 2020

Oberamagau said:
After Christ ascended the physical temple ended as the place of worship for Jewish and non-Jewish believers.

Praise God, Jesus one sacrifice is done,
there is no more physical sacrifices required.

“By the which will we are sanctified through the
offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all”

Today we are the Temple. 1 Corinthians 3:16
" Know ye not that ye are the [temple] of God,
and "that" the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

G3485
?a?´? , naos , nah-os'
From a primary word ?a?´? naio¯ (to dwell); a fane,
shrine, temple: - shrine, temple. Compare G2411.

1 Corinthians 3:17 templeG3485
1 Corinthians 6:19 templeG3485
2 Corinthians 6:16 templeG3485

“Ye also, as lively stones, are built up
[a spiritual house], an holy priesthood,
to offer up [spiritual sacrifices], acceptable
to God by Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 2:5).

Spirit-led people can, or should see the
spiritual counterpart to the physical
sacrifices in the bible.You are a spiritual
sacrifice for God today (Romans 12:1).
-

2 Thessalonians 2:4 templeG3485

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above
all that is called God, or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sitteth in the [temple]
of God, shewing himself that he is God.

John 2:19 templeG3485
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy
this [temple], and in three days I will raise it up.

John 2:21 templeG3485, [body]G4983
But he spake of the temple of his [body].

G4983
s??µa , so¯ma, so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole),
used in a very wide application, literally
or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.

This is not the same as the Physical temples.

Mark 14:58
We heard him say, I will destroy this temple
that is made with hands, and within three days
I will build another made without hands.

A temple made with hands, to
another temple made without hands.
-

Matthew 21:12, the [temple] here different
"And Jesus went into the [temple] of God,
and cast out all them that sold and bought
in the temple,

G2411
??e??´?, hieron, hee-er-on'
Neuter of G2413; a sacred place, that is, the
entire precincts (whereas G3485 denotes
the central sanctuary itself) of the Temple
(at Jerusalem or elsewhere): - temple.

Mark 14:49 templeG2411
I was daily with you in the [temple] teaching

Matthew 24:1 templeG2411, [buildings]G3619
to shew him the [buildings] of the temple

G3619
?????d?µ?´, oikodome¯, oy-kod-om-ay'
Feminine (abstraction) of a compound of G3624
and the base of G1430; architecture, that is,
(concretely) a structure; figuratively confirmation:
- building, edify (-ication, -ing).
-

or Daniel 5:3 templeH1965
????, he^ykal, hay-kal'
(Chaldee); corresponding to H1964: - palace, temple.

H1964
????, he^yka^l, hay-kawl'
Probably from H3201 (in the sense of capacity);
a large public building, such as a palace or temple:
- palace, temple.
-

Christ is the High Priest of the spiritual temple,
the Church. The sacrificial system was re-
placed by Christ’s sacrifice (Hebrews 8:13).
(Hebrews 10:11-12). The Levitical priesthood
was removed and re-placed by the Melchisedec
priesthood (Hebrews 7).

“Now where remission of these is, there is
no more offering for sin” (Hebrews 10:18)

Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which
he hath consecrated for us, through the veil,
that is to say, his flesh; And having an highpriest
over the house of God”. We have a new way
to live and a High Priest over God’s house.
-

There will be another temple during the mill,
Christ will be responsible for building the
Ezekiel temple (Ezekiel 40:1, 3, 14).

He does the measuring physically and
spiritually (verses 19, 23, 28, 32).

Christ is measuring the spiritual templeG3485
today (Revelation 11:1). Revelation 3:12

But none of that changes the 7th day,
to the 8th day [Sunday] of the week.

Sorry for being off subject.

pasifika · Feb 22, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
A warning-about entering into His rest.

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

-how did they came short?

Heb 4:2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by (faith) with them that heard.

-they did not have faith.

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest;even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;

-notice entering into that rest is connected with the seventh day.

Heb 4:5 and in this place again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached

Heb 4:7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before), To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.

Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day.

-David said "today" long after Joshua took them into the promised land so thus proving that there is a rest still to be entered.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

.

Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holy of holies;
Heb 9:4 having a golden altar of incense, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was a golden pot holding the manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

-the pot of manna was put in the most Holy

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which Jehovah thy God hath led thee these forty years in the wilderness, that he might humble thee, to prove thee, to know what was in thy heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or not.
Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know

that man doth not live by bread only, but by everything that proceedeth out of the mouth of Jehovah doth man live.

And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. Deuteronomy 8:2

-God tested them for 40 years to humble them to see what was in their hearts. that they should live by every word (10 commandments spoken by Gods own mouth) not by bread alone.

-what did the bread teach?

Exo 16:4 Then said Jehovah unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or not.

Exo 16:5 And it shall come to pass on the sixth day, that they shall prepare that which they bring in, and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

-and how long did God prove them with the manna?

Exo 16:32 And Moses said, This is the thing which Jehovah hath commanded, Let
an omerful of it be kept throughout your generations, that they may see the bread
wherewith I fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.

Exo 16:33 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omerful of manna therein,
and lay it up before Jehovah, to be kept throughout your generations.

As Jehovah commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.
And the children of Israel did eat the manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited;
they did eat the manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.

-40 years. this is the issue being spoken of in Hebrews:

Heb 3:16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they that came out of Egypt by Moses?

Heb 3:17 And with whom was he displeased forty years? was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?
Heb 3:19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:4-10 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works [Gen. 2:2-3].

And in this [place again],

If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in
because of unbelief [sound familiar?]: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There remaineth therefore a rest [see below] to the people of God. For he that is entered
into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."

rest (G4520) sabbatismos
1. a keeping sabbath
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by
the true worshippers of God and true Christians
from a derivative of G4521

(G4521) sabbaton
1. the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites
were required to abstain from all work
1a. the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
1b. a single sabbath, sabbath day
2. seven days, a week
of Hebrew origin H7676

(H7676) shabba^th
1. Sabbath
1a. sabbath
1b. day of atonement
1c. sabbath year
1d. week
1e. produce (in sabbath year)
intensive from H7673

(7673) sha^bath
1. to cease, desist, rest
1a. (Qal)
1a-1. to cease
1a-2. to rest, desist (from labour)
1b. (Niphal) to cease
1c. (Hiphil)
1c-1. to cause to cease, put an end to
1c-2. to exterminate, destroy
1c-3. to cause to desist from
1c-4. to remove
1c-5. to cause to fail
2. (Qal) to keep or observe the sabbath
a primitive root

Genesis 2:2-3 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."

The LORD created the seventh day (Sabbath), blessed and sanctified it "because that in it he had rested from all his work".

-once God has blessed something, can it be undone?

Numbers 23:19-20 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and [I cannot reverse it]."

-Here Balaam tells Balak that the LORD gave him a commandment to bless Israel.

He told Balak that what the LORD has blessed, he cannot reverse it. Do we think we can reverse the blessing the LORD has placed on something?

1 Chronicles 17:26-27 "And now, LORD, thou art God, and hast promised this goodness unto thy servant: Now therefore let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may be before thee for ever: for thou blessest, O LORD, and it shall be blessed for ever."

So, which rest did God swore, that no one should enter in to? Isn't the 7th day rest?
Hebrews 4:5...They shall Never enter my rest...

Again, why was a certain day (called "Today") given by God for His people if the 7th day is still the day to enter in to His rest?
If the 7th day is still the day to enter in to His rest why making another day then?

If Joshua did not give them rest then neither the 7th day is the day to enter in to God's rest for the people of God...But is the other day called "Today"...

The 7th day rest or Sabbath is only for the Lord..is the sign that it was the Lord in human flesh who came to save His people...after completing His work He rested on the 7th day in the tomb...showing that He is the maker of this creation mentioned Genesis...

Our (people of God) day of rest is called "Today"..this where we enter in to God's rest...after finishing our work. ..
And our work is to BELIEVE In Jesus Christ!! That is the work for us...the day we believed is the day that is called "TODAY"...

pasifika · Feb 23, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, happy Sabbath! I agree with many of your statements, except on the Sabbath. I show my "faith" in Jesus by obeying what He asked of those who love Him: obeying the commandments of Jesus written by His own finger before the incarnation, not because I think that I can keep the Sabbath perfectly to save myself as Jesus did, but because the proper Sabbath shows my "faith" and love for Jesus doing everything possible to obey the Sabbath commandment as I grow under the grace of God's forgiveness to obey the Sabbath better.

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. (James 2:14-18 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You show your faith by doing good works or love one another...that is the work of faith...
We show our love for God by believing in His Son...and the demonstration of our belief in God is our love for one another...

prodromos · Feb 23, 2020

pasifika said:
So, which rest did God swore, that no one should enter in to? Isn't the 7th day rest?
Hebrews 4:5...They shall Never enter my rest...

Again, why was a certain day (called "Today") given by God for His people if the 7th day is still the day to enter in to His rest?
If the 7th day is still the day to enter in to His rest why making another day then?

If Joshua did not give them rest then neither the 7th day is the day to enter in to God's rest for the people of God...But is the other day called "Today"...

The 7th day rest or Sabbath is only for the Lord..is the sign that it was the Lord in human flesh who came to save His people...after completing His work He rested on the 7th day in the tomb...showing that He is the maker of this creation mentioned Genesis...

Our (people of God) day of rest is called "Today"..this where we enter in to God's rest...after finishing our work. ..
And our work is to BELIEVE In Jesus Christ!! That is the work for us...the day we believed is the day that is called "TODAY"...

When Genesis 2 states that God rested on the seventh day, we understand that God is spirit and has no need of rest, thus the passage foretells when God become man would rest in the tomb on the seventh day because rest is something that pertains to the flesh.

pasifika · Feb 23, 2020

prodromos said:
When Genesis 2 states that God rested on the seventh day, we understand that God is spirit and has no need of rest, thus the passage foretells when God become man would rest in the tomb on the seventh day because rest is something that pertains to the flesh.

Hebrews 4:4,5..is referring to the creation event in Genesis...it has also has a parallel meaning to Christ resting in the tomb...
One is the Spirit (Genesis )..the same One is the Spirit in human flesh(Gospel )

guevaraj · Feb 23, 2020

pasifika said:
You show your faith by doing good works or love one another...that is the work of faith...We show our love for God by believing in His Son...and the demonstration of our belief in God is our love for one another...

Brother, it is God, and not us, who defined acceptable demonstrations of love for God and neighbor; with a minimum requirement of keeping the ten commandments.

Jesus wrote the ten commandments with His own "finger" before the incarnation and added to them and did not remove a single dot or comma from the ten commandments. Jesus expects when He returns that our "righteousness" will be greater than that of those who preceded us, because He added to the ten commandments and did not remove any commandments already given. What changed with the new covenant is where written are Jesus’ commandments, no longer only in stone, but in our hearts by the Holy Spirit reminding us of them; if you do not reject His reminder with “the error of the lawless” to your own “destruction”, that Peter forewarned us is the end of those who accept “the error of the lawless.”

If you love Me, keep My commandments. (John 14:15 KJV)

Jesus asks above to obey His commandments and tells us below that He is the one who gave us the ten commandments and not the Father, when everyone knew that God's "voice" was heard in the mountain and Moses saw the "form" of the finger writing the ten commandments.

And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, (John 5:37 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

BobRyan · Feb 23, 2020

pasifika said:
I know everyone drink water here on earth but what appreciation is it if similar water also found in the new city..same old thing nothing new..

True. I am just pointing that the text could not be bent into "total amnesia" - many things done on Earth are known about in heaven. And the Angels will not be "zapped with amnesia" either. They minister on Earth today and will still "know about" that history in heaven.

pasifika said:
.But scripture says that the things God has prepared for us is beyond our earthly thinking

But does not add "so ignore everything I am now telling you about heaven"

So then God is "trustworthy" when HE says "From SABBATH to SABBATH shall all mankind come before Me to worship" and also when HE tells us that the "City" has no need of the Sun or moon because of the light of God in it. Both are true.

God is fully capable of conveying His point accurately and that is why we have such a thing as "exegesis" where looking at the meaning the Author had - and how his words would be intended for the primary audience he is writing to -- is a very trustworthy method for rendering the text. Rather than at every corner "well the text cannot be taken at face value .. just insert whatever you wish at this point" being the practice of the day.

Bending each text to fit an a priori bias is not very reliable.

BobRyan · Feb 23, 2020

Oberamagau said:
Observing Saturday Sabbath shows your faith to SDA-ism.

Because you think that all those who post here in favor of the Bible Sabbath are SDAs??? Are you paying attention to who is posting??

Semper-Fi said:
Was Jesus and Paul a SDA ?

Doctrinally - I personally would say the answer is yes.

pasifika · Feb 23, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, it is God, and not us, who defined acceptable demonstrations of love for God and neighbor; with a minimum requirement of keeping the ten commandments.

Jesus wrote the ten commandments with His own "finger" before the incarnation and added to them and did not remove a single dot or comma from the ten commandments. Jesus expects when He returns that our "righteousness" will be greater than that of those who preceded us, because He added to the ten commandments and did not remove any commandments already given. What changed with the new covenant is where written are Jesus’ commandments, no longer only in stone, but in our hearts by the Holy Spirit reminding us of them; if you do not reject His reminder with “the error of the lawless” to your own “destruction”, that Peter forewarned us is the end of those who accept “the error of the lawless.”

If you love Me, keep My commandments. (John 14:15 KJV)

Jesus asks above to obey His commandments and tells us below that He is the one who gave us the ten commandments and not the Father, when everyone knew that God's "voice" was heard in the mountain and Moses saw the "form" of the finger writing the ten commandments.

And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, (John 5:37 NIV)

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

All the law and prophets are fulfilled in Christ, that's including 10 commandments...because He never sin...and all mankind has fallen short because we All sin...

Luke 24:27...And beginning with Moses and All the Prophets, He explained to them what was said in ALL SCRIPTURES concerning HIMSELF...

If you love me keep my commandments...in another way of putting it is.... if you believe me then love one another....

pasifika · Feb 23, 2020

BobRyan said:
True. I am just pointing that the text could not be bent into "total amnesia" - many things done on Earth are known about in heaven. And the Angels will not be "zapped with amnesia" either. They minister on Earth today and will still "know about" that history in heaven.

But does not add "so ignore everything I am now telling you about heaven"

So then God is "trustworthy" when HE says "From SABBATH to SABBATH shall all mankind come before Me to worship" and also when HE tells us that the "City" has no need of the Sun or moon because of the light of God in it. Both are true.

God is fully capable of conveying His point accurately and that is why we have such a thing as "exegesis" where looking at the meaning the Author had - and how his words would be intended for the primary audience he is writing to -- is a very trustworthy method for rendering the text. Rather than at every corner "well the text cannot be taken at face value .. just insert whatever you wish at this point" being the practice of the day.

Bending each text to fit an a priori bias is not very reliable.

God has given the children of Israel His Sabbaths (plural )...ie weekly Sabbath 7th day, 1st and 7th day of Festival of Unleavened bread, festival of weeks, festival of trumpets etc all have their Sabbath together with 7th day Sabbath...Leviticus 23

From Sabbath to Sabbath in Isaiah...does not say 7th day..is just say from Sabbath to Sabbath which means from one rest to another rest...

Our world has limitations or boundaries ie for day measure by sun, the night measure by stars or moon, week by 7 days or our lives (day we born and died ) etc these are for temporary only...but God does not measure by anything, so also are those who lived with Him...so just as God is forever So are we His children...so there is no need for any of those things like, sun, moon, stars, our age etc because we are with God We are in a kingdom with no end...or boundaries. We inherited what the Father have...
I believe is the Glory of God that covers the whole new creation...

BobRyan · Feb 23, 2020

pasifika said:
God has given the children of Israel His Sabbaths (plural )...ie weekly Sabbath 7th day, 1st and 7th day of Festival

And also the New Covenant.

Jer 31:31-33
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

pasifika said:
From Sabbath to Sabbath in Isaiah...does not say 7th day

But Isaiah knew the weekly Sabbath was every 7th day and not "once a year" and he also knew that only 3 of the yearly feasts were mandatory for Israel.

Heb 10 tells us the yearly events end at the cross because the animal sacrifices that were the liturgy of those yearly events ended at the cross.

That leaves the weekly Sabbath - a day of "rest" and of "holy convocation".

For all mankind.

While it is true that the weekly Sabbath was "made for mankind" as Christ points out in Mark 2:27 and as we see in Genesis 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 -- the same cannot be said for the yearly feast-Sabbaths that ended at the cross according to Heb 10.

God was being accurate in Isaiah 66:23 to say of the weekly cycle Sabbath "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

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