Polyamory: Pastors’ Next Sexual Frontier

PloverWing

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The B of LGBT is finally getting a turn.

Note that bisexual people don't necessarily have multiple simultaneous partners, just as straight people don't necessarily have multiple simultaneous opposite-sex partners. Who you're attracted to, and how monogamous you prefer to be in relationships, are two separate questions.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Note that bisexual people don't necessarily have multiple simultaneous partners, just as straight people don't necessarily have multiple simultaneous opposite-sex partners. Who you're attracted to, and how monogamous you prefer to be in relationships, are two separate questions.
Still, if someone is attracted to both at the same time (as opposed to serially) they are out of luck at present in being able to marry who they want to. I think two years from now multiple marriages of whatever gender all at the same time will be as accepted in the culture as the idea that a woman can become a man and a man can become a woman. That's just me predicting. Check back in two years. Or less.

Not approving. Not at all. Just predicting.
 
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PloverWing

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People have a strange view of 'sin'. Sin is sin because it hurts people. God isn't some killjoy. The reason why this is sin is because it will hurt people, including those who are most innocent: the kids.

This is important.

Personally, I'm torn about polyamory. On the one hand, I wouldn't want to be in a polygamous relationship, and culturally I'm trained to think it's weird and yukky. On the other hand, the Old Testament is full of stories of polygamy, often without any condemnation of the practice; it seems to have been just taken for granted in some ancient cultures. So I can't say that polygamy is anti-Biblical, as much as I might like to.

So I think we come to HatGuy's point: How does polygamy work out in practice? Is it loving and life-giving for everyone in the relationship, or does it end up being repressive or harmful? I'm hearing from HatGuy that it's often harmful, as practiced in South Africa. I'd want to explore a little further: Is there protective legislation that could make the marriages better? Does it matter if polyandry is allowed in addition to polygyny? Is there a way of ensuring that everyone has given free and full consent? and so on. But if polygamy ends up hurting the people involved, even with these extra protections, then that's the reason to prohibit it.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Actually the opposite is closer the truth. Compare this to a husband who goes out of town on a business trip, spends a night with a prostitute or a loose woman at the hotel bar, then it is over and never spoken of again. He goes home to his wife, carries on as if it had never happened, and carries the dark secret to the grave with him. Both have broken their vows, but who has shown greater disrespect to the marriage covenant?

Concealing your extramarital trysts, in fact, is evidence that even though you haven't honored your marriage vows, at least they don't mean nothing to you. Trying to keep the appearance of a monogamous marriage implies seeing some value in it. This, of course, is what polyamory aims to end - it aims to create a culture where monogamy isn't valued.

Is that really a justification in your mind?

Do I really need to actually say, I disagree?

Don't do extramarital affairs, consensual or otherwise and there won't be any problem at all.
 
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Quartermaine

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Quartermaine

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I will say that my gay friend and his significant other (I won't call him a husband, spouse, etc - as I don't see them as such even if they are legally "married") have a better relationship together than those with an open "marriage".
if you can't muster the manners to call his spouse what he is then he's not much of a friend then
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Article from Christianity Today:

A pastor recently told me (Preston) about Tyler and Amanda (names changed), high-school sweethearts raised in Christian homes, living in the Bible belt. After getting married, they seemed to be living the American dream with a house, good jobs, and two kids. Then Jon, a friend of Tyler’s, began living with their family. Amanda developed a close relationship with him, but their flirtation soon developed into something more, and Jon and Amanda proposed to Tyler that they begin exploring polyamory, with Amanda adding Jon as a significant other. They also encouraged Tyler to develop a relationship with another woman he’d met at the gym. He agreed.

When Tyler and Amanda came out as polyamorous, their parents were shocked. What seemed like a fringe practice of the sexual revolution had settled into the heartland of Middle America.

Making the situation even more complex, Tyler and Amanda sought counseling from a Christian counselor who advocated polyamory. Tyler’s parents were disturbed by what their son and daughter-in-law heard there: “It’s only adultery or cheating if someone is kept in the dark. If you are open and honest, this is a God-honoring relationship. And this is good for the kids! It takes a village to raise a child, so a polyamorous relationship actually brings more support and ‘family’ into your kids’ lives, much like the extended families in the past.”

Tyler’s parents wanted to know how to respond to their children but also wanted to know how the church should respond. Should Jon be welcomed into the church as an addition to Tyler and Amanda’s family? In a world where many sexual choices and identities are accepted, polyamory is often still stigmatized, so Tyler’s parents didn’t know who to talk to or where to turn.

An Introduction to Polyamory
For many Christians, polyamory seems so extreme and rare that there’s no need to talk about it. But it is much more common than some people think, and it’s growing in popularity. According to one estimate, “as many as 5 percent of Americans are currently in relationships involving consensual nonmonogamy,” which is about the same percentage as those who identify as LGBTQ. A recent study, published in a peer-reviewed journal, found that 20 percent of Americans have been in a consensual non-monogamous relationship at least once in their life. Another survey showed that nearly 70 percent of non-religious Americans between the ages of 24 and 35 believe that polyamory is okay, even if it’s not their cup of tea. And perhaps most shocking of all, according to sociologist Mark Regnerus in Cheap Sex, roughly 24 percent of church-going people believe that consensual polyamorous relationships are morally permissible.

More at the link: Polyamory: Pastors’ Next Sexual Frontier

I think some Christians who supported same-sex marriage scoffed at other Christians when they said "this just opens the door for polygamy and other non-traditional unions." Well it is showing up in a church near you.

I really don’t care what Tyler, Amanda, Joe, or anybody else does in their bedroom and in their relationships.
 
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Quartermaine

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This is important.

Personally, I'm torn about polyamory. On the one hand, I wouldn't want to be in a polygamous relationship, and culturally I'm trained to think it's weird and yukky. On the other hand, the Old Testament is full of stories of polygamy, often without any condemnation of the practice; it seems to have been just taken for granted in some ancient cultures. So I can't say that polygamy is anti-Biblical, as much as I might like to.

So I think we come to HatGuy's point: How does polygamy work out in practice? Is it loving and life-giving for everyone in the relationship, or does it end up being repressive or harmful? I'm hearing from HatGuy that it's often harmful, as practiced in South Africa. I'd want to explore a little further: Is there protective legislation that could make the marriages better? Does it matter if polyandry is allowed in addition to polygyny? Is there a way of ensuring that everyone has given free and full consent? and so on. But if polygamy ends up hurting the people involved, even with these extra protections, then that's the reason to prohibit it.
One of the sad facts of life about polygamy involves young boys that are the result of these relationships. Generally around the age of 14 boys are thrown out of their homes and driven from the community by their father and the other adult men. the reason is competition. Adult men want to have and marry teen age girls but they have to limit the girls options of marriage to force them into it.
 
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JacksBratt

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I think then people who want a civil ceremony could have that and think what they want. And Christians could join in matrimony. Call them two separate things that only superficially look like each other.
I agree. Not sure why the LGBT group wanted to go to a church to get married anyway... not like they agree with what it stands for and on... Why the fight... Just go to the JP and be done... stop coming to church and then saying that they are not giving you the rights of marriage... there are plenty of other places to go and achieve what you are looking for...
 
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JacksBratt

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This is important.

Personally, I'm torn about polyamory. On the one hand, I wouldn't want to be in a polygamous relationship, and culturally I'm trained to think it's weird and yukky. On the other hand, the Old Testament is full of stories of polygamy, often without any condemnation of the practice; it seems to have been just taken for granted in some ancient cultures. So I can't say that polygamy is anti-Biblical, as much as I might like to.

So I think we come to HatGuy's point: How does polygamy work out in practice? Is it loving and life-giving for everyone in the relationship, or does it end up being repressive or harmful? I'm hearing from HatGuy that it's often harmful, as practiced in South Africa. I'd want to explore a little further: Is there protective legislation that could make the marriages better? Does it matter if polyandry is allowed in addition to polygyny? Is there a way of ensuring that everyone has given free and full consent? and so on. But if polygamy ends up hurting the people involved, even with these extra protections, then that's the reason to prohibit it.
There are many examples of men with many wives in the bible.. However, I don't think that this was the plan for most common folk... or anyone for that matter..

There are many examples of scripture that concerns this here:

What Does the Bible Say About Marraige One Man One Woman?


This is an example:


1 Corinthians 7:2
But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.
 
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PloverWing

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One of the sad facts of life about polygamy involves young boys that are the result of these relationships. Generally around the age of 14 boys are thrown out of their homes and driven from the community by their father and the other adult men. the reason is competition. Adult men want to have and marry teen age girls but they have to limit the girls options of marriage to force them into it.
Yeah, anything that involves driving out teenage boys or forcing teenage girls into marriages is out. The state has an interest in protecting teenagers of both sexes. The church should have an interest in it too, though I'm aware that polygamy is sometimes connected to religious conviction.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I agree. Not sure why the LGBT group wanted to go to a church to get married anyway... not like they agree with what it stands for and on... Why the fight... Just go to the JP and be done... stop coming to church and then saying that they are not giving you the rights of marriage... there are plenty of other places to go and achieve what you are looking for...
It's important to them to force you to like them anywhere and everywhere, including your church.
 
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redleghunter

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Never mind my parish had addressed this years ago and has a parish nurse even to work with people on health issues.
That’s good news you have a nurse to do this.

I can only speak of the church plant where I am a member. Vast majority military or military retired and lots of young married couples with lots of young children. The children outnumber the adults. :)

While we wait for the permanent permanent construction of our church building, we are using the local YMCA for services. Many are already members of the Y. So my church currently boasts an Olympic sized swimming pool, a full basketball court and workout room. Not to mention Zumba thrown in there. :)
 
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Bruce Leiter

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Article from Christianity Today:

A pastor recently told me (Preston) about Tyler and Amanda (names changed), high-school sweethearts raised in Christian homes, living in the Bible belt. After getting married, they seemed to be living the American dream with a house, good jobs, and two kids. Then Jon, a friend of Tyler’s, began living with their family. Amanda developed a close relationship with him, but their flirtation soon developed into something more, and Jon and Amanda proposed to Tyler that they begin exploring polyamory, with Amanda adding Jon as a significant other. They also encouraged Tyler to develop a relationship with another woman he’d met at the gym. He agreed.

When Tyler and Amanda came out as polyamorous, their parents were shocked. What seemed like a fringe practice of the sexual revolution had settled into the heartland of Middle America.

Making the situation even more complex, Tyler and Amanda sought counseling from a Christian counselor who advocated polyamory. Tyler’s parents were disturbed by what their son and daughter-in-law heard there: “It’s only adultery or cheating if someone is kept in the dark. If you are open and honest, this is a God-honoring relationship. And this is good for the kids! It takes a village to raise a child, so a polyamorous relationship actually brings more support and ‘family’ into your kids’ lives, much like the extended families in the past.”

Tyler’s parents wanted to know how to respond to their children but also wanted to know how the church should respond. Should Jon be welcomed into the church as an addition to Tyler and Amanda’s family? In a world where many sexual choices and identities are accepted, polyamory is often still stigmatized, so Tyler’s parents didn’t know who to talk to or where to turn.

An Introduction to Polyamory
For many Christians, polyamory seems so extreme and rare that there’s no need to talk about it. But it is much more common than some people think, and it’s growing in popularity. According to one estimate, “as many as 5 percent of Americans are currently in relationships involving consensual nonmonogamy,” which is about the same percentage as those who identify as LGBTQ. A recent study, published in a peer-reviewed journal, found that 20 percent of Americans have been in a consensual non-monogamous relationship at least once in their life. Another survey showed that nearly 70 percent of non-religious Americans between the ages of 24 and 35 believe that polyamory is okay, even if it’s not their cup of tea. And perhaps most shocking of all, according to sociologist Mark Regnerus in Cheap Sex, roughly 24 percent of church-going people believe that consensual polyamorous relationships are morally permissible.

More at the link: Polyamory: Pastors’ Next Sexual Frontier

I think some Christians who supported same-sex marriage scoffed at other Christians when they said "this just opens the door for polygamy and other non-traditional unions." Well it is showing up in a church near you.

Did anyone bring up the Bible's position on marriage in Genesis 2:24 and Ephesians 5:20-33? The pattern of one man and one wife is the ideal marriage relationship. Anything else is a violation of God's principle in those passages and others.
 
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Angeldove97

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if you can't muster the manners to call his spouse what he is then he's not much of a friend then

Your 2 cents.

He isn't a spouse if he doesn't fit the definition of one - per the theology that I follow. That is between him and God though.
 
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ColoRaydo

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Personally, I see this as a situation of a man with no self esteem, another man who is a manipulator, and a woman is either completely deluded or just slowly trying to get her original husband out of the picture.

There is very little chance any of these relationships will last.

If any of them are actual Christians temporarily off track, they will be convicted by the Holy Spirit to change.
 
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redleghunter

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This is important.

Personally, I'm torn about polyamory. On the one hand, I wouldn't want to be in a polygamous relationship, and culturally I'm trained to think it's weird and yukky. On the other hand, the Old Testament is full of stories of polygamy, often without any condemnation of the practice; it seems to have been just taken for granted in some ancient cultures. So I can't say that polygamy is anti-Biblical, as much as I might like to.

So I think we come to HatGuy's point: How does polygamy work out in practice? Is it loving and life-giving for everyone in the relationship, or does it end up being repressive or harmful? I'm hearing from HatGuy that it's often harmful, as practiced in South Africa. I'd want to explore a little further: Is there protective legislation that could make the marriages better? Does it matter if polyandry is allowed in addition to polygyny? Is there a way of ensuring that everyone has given free and full consent? and so on. But if polygamy ends up hurting the people involved, even with these extra protections, then that's the reason to prohibit it.
Polygamy did happen in the OT. However, it was not the design of God from the beginning.

If we look at the men in the OT who had multiple wives and concubines we see that such ends up being their undoing or created strife.
 
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redleghunter

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I really don’t care what Tyler, Amanda, Joe, or anybody else does in their bedroom and in their relationships.
Sure I guess you don’t nor do I.

The article is about how pastors should address and inform their churches on such relationships.

So this is not about our opinions but how the church community deals with sin.
 
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redleghunter

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Did anyone bring up the Bible's position on marriage in Genesis 2:24 and Ephesians 5:20-33? The pattern of one man and one wife is the ideal marriage relationship. Anything else is a violation of God's principle in those passages and others.
Not to mention Matthew 19:4-6

But no...the first half of this thread was “whataboutism.” Like what about gluttony. But I think we have it on track now.
 
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