Was Peter a member of the Body of Christ.

Randy777 said:

I think James and Peter knew they were saved by grace through faith in Jesus.

We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.

We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

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Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God

This is vs 19. How do you conclude that James is saying the same thing as Peter stated in vs 11?

PaulCyp1 said:

Not only a member of it, but the principle authority over it, the first Pope.

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Or at least we can say that he led the church at Rome.

rhern said:

Was Peter included in the Gospel of Grace.

Was Peter a member of the Body of Christ.

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If the following verses are true then Peter would be on a throne in the kingdom.

Matt. 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

If Peter is part of the Body of Christ then where would that put all the other members? Which throne will Paul sit on?

My conclusion is that Peter is not part of the Body of Christ but is in the "household of God" (Eph 2:19).

Guojing said:

Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God

This is vs 19. How do you conclude that James is saying the same thing as Peter stated in vs 11?

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I believe "we" expresses that as Peter stated.
We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Randy777 said:

I believe "we" expresses that as Peter stated.
We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

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When you say “I believe”, are you trying to inject your interpretation into the literal reading of the English words in the verse?

literally what James was saying in v19 is that the Gentiles who believed will no longer be required to follow the law.

Is that exactly the same as what peter meant in vs11? Was James also pronouncing in v19 that the Jews themselves who believed will also be excused from the law of moses at the same time?

rhern said:

Was Peter included in the Gospel of Grace.

Was Peter a member of the Body of Christ.

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The 12 disciples had a special ministry. They were to have walked with the Lord and seen His life, death, resurrection and ascension. That is what they witnessed to.

They did not however have a revelation of the Body of Christ, as that was given to the Apostle Paul later on. Remember Peter tried to get the Gentile believers to become like Jews. Paul had to admonish him. (Gal. 2: 11 - 14)

The Lord said that they would eventually rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. (Matt. 19: 28)

Thus they are not in the Body of Christ but in Christ ruling where they are placed, the New Jerusalem. (Rev. 21: 12)

Guojing said:

When you say “I believe”, are you trying to inject your interpretation into the literal reading of the English words in the verse?

literally what James was saying in v19 is that the Gentiles who believed will no longer be required to follow the law.

Is that exactly the same as what peter meant in vs11? Was James also pronouncing in v19 that the Jews themselves who believed will also be excused from the law of moses at the same time?

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Grace through faith applies to all peoples.

Randy777 said:

Grace through faith applies to all peoples.

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I see. Thanks for sharing.

Acts 15:7-11
7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them:"Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they." NKJV

It it difficult to imagine how God could have made it much clearer . . .

He gave the spirit to the gentiles JUST AS HE DID TO THE JEWISH BELIEVERS.

He made NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE JEWISH BELIEVERS AND THE GENTILE BELIEVERS.

He saves the Jews IN THE SAME MANNER as he saves the Gentiles.

Yes . . . All caps indicates and elevated tone.

lsume said:

Without faith we cannot please Him.

Christ always did that which pleased The Father. We are saved by Grace through Faith. In the parable of the wedding and few who acknowledged it, everyone was then invited. However, it was still expected that the attendees wear their better clothing. The clothing represents our soul as I understand it. We are to live a Christ Like life. Only Christ can get any of us to Heaven. Praise God for His Beautiful Grace.

Heb.11

1. [6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

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I really like this metaphor. We are all invited to the feast. How do you show up? That is a perfect way to look at it because in my belief system sins are forgive when you repent them. It seems something like washing the stain out of your garment before the feast. I would only feel comfortable sitting outside at the feast if I wore a garment full of stains.

msortwell said:

Acts 15:7-11
7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them:"Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they." NKJV

It it difficult to imagine how God could have made it much clearer . . .

He gave the spirit to the gentiles JUST AS HE DID TO THE JEWISH BELIEVERS.

He made NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE JEWISH BELIEVERS AND THE GENTILE BELIEVERS.

He saves the Jews IN THE SAME MANNER as he saves the Gentiles.

Yes . . . All caps indicates and elevated tone.

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There is nothing that goes against Christian teaching in the Jewish religion. Also, Judaism is uniquely a religion and ethnicity. By that I mean, a person can have "Israelite DNA" so they are Jewish, even if they are atheists. Gentile is basically "everything else".

What happened was, there were way more Gentile Christians in the world by the time the Roman Church was gaining strength, they began to separate themselves from the Jewish Christians. Noting that the ROman CHurch is Western Europe and nothing in the Middle East. So Paul's teaching have always been emphasized by certain Churches because he brought the gospel to the Gentiles which spread it through the globe.

They never took out Peter's teachings some churches are more repentance and obedience oriented.

Having said that, I have noticed that the mega-churches focus on forgiveness and free grace and people get that message in their low moment and find hope, health, and faith. In those cases, the faith preceded their obedience and as someone said, that faith was/is a requirement if you are to live in obedience.

I think Paul brings the most converts but once people get their faith, they are capable of reading the more action-oriented Apostles like James, Peter, Christ himself was very adamant about obedience. Hanging on to obedience can even save your faith when times get tough.

So both messages are very important, my feeling is that is why they were both included in the Biblical Cannon by the churches of the world.

rturner76 said:

There is nothing that goes against Christian teaching in the Jewish religion. Also, Judaism is uniquely a religion and ethnicity. By that I mean, a person can have "Israelite DNA" so they are Jewish, even if they are atheists. Gentile is basically "everything else".

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To be Jewish today is, from a religious perspective, to be among those who reject the true Messiah. To be Jewish today, from an ethnic perspective, is to be on precisely the same spiritual footing as the non-Jewish. Like the ethnic Gentile, the ethnic Jew must believe the gospel of the Messiah or perish.

Peter did indeed continue in the way of Christ. Christ restored him after his denial and Peter went on to minister, spread the Good News of the Gospel of the Christ to many. We can say Peter followed Christ and he followed him to crucifixion according to ancient Christian tradition. That said it is not my place to state his faithfulness. That is the purview of our Lord.

rturner76 said:

I really like this metaphor. We are all invited to the feast. How do you show up? That is a perfect way to look at it because in my belief system sins are forgive when you repent them. It seems something like washing the stain out of your garment before the feast. I would only feel comfortable sitting outside at the feast if I wore a garment full of stains.

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I certainly understand why you think of sin the way you do. However in the case where you have been freed from a sin and you willfully bring it back into your life, you were given the chance to be free. This still does not do justice to what actually happens. I know that if you seek you will find.

msortwell said:

Acts 15:7-11
7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them:"Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they." NKJV

It it difficult to imagine how God could have made it much clearer . . .

He gave the spirit to the gentiles JUST AS HE DID TO THE JEWISH BELIEVERS.

He made NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE JEWISH BELIEVERS AND THE GENTILE BELIEVERS.

He saves the Jews IN THE SAME MANNER as he saves the Gentiles.

Yes . . . All caps indicates and elevated tone.

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Just to double check, you also believed James said exactly the same thing as what Peter stated in vs11, when James pronounced the final judgement in verse 19?

Guojing said:

Just to double check, you also believed James said exactly the same thing as what Peter stated in vs11, when James pronounced the final judgement in verse 19?

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Exactly the same thing? No. Peter spoke of justification. James spoke of piety. Even as Paul indicated, though grace abounds, sin ought not to abound.

msortwell said:

Exactly the same thing? No. Peter spoke of justification. James spoke of piety. Even as Paul indicated, though grace abounds, sin ought not to abound.

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How did you conclude that James was talking about piety?

Its salvation by the forgiveness of sins. Which is received by faith in Jesus.
The straight path that John the baptist prepared the people for their Lord Jesus.
Gods intent for the people.
Luke 1
to give his people the knowledge of salvation
through the forgiveness of their sins,
78 because of the tender mercy of our God,
by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
79 to shine on those living in darkness
and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the path of peace.”

Mark 2:5
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, "Son, your sins are forgiven

I want you to know
But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.”

The law has punishments per transgression but since God had left the sins of the gentile nations unpunished He was just in showing mercy to those under law as well.
John 11:50
You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish."

Based on a previous promise before the law.
Gal 3:17
What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.

msortwell said:

To be Jewish today is, from a religious perspective, to be among those who reject the true Messiah. To be Jewish today, from an ethnic perspective, is to be on precisely the same spiritual footing as the non-Jewish. Like the ethnic Gentile, the ethnic Jew must believe the gospel of the Messiah or perish.

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This is a bit off-topic but I believe that Jews, being the chosen of God get a pass. Mostly because Christ lived, died, and was resurrected a Jew. He taught from the Jewish religious books quoting many of the OT prophets.

rturner76 said:

This is a bit off-topic but I believe that Jews, being the chosen of God get a pass. Mostly because Christ lived, died, and was resurrected a Jew. He taught from the Jewish religious books quoting many of the OT prophets.

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Wasn't that Jews Jesus first preached to? Did He state they get a free pass because of heritage?
Those God calls His children.
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

The NT was written for future generations.