Bernie Sanders praised communist Cuba and the Soviet Union in the 1980s

The trains are great?

Darn I was hoping for something deeper re the USSR.

Also, who cares anymore. That was the 80's. Trump right now can praise authoritarian rulers to the skies and.... not a peep. We're beyond caring anymore, it seems.

They obtained the documents but did not include them with the article. Anyone got a line on the primary sources?

Uber Genius said:

"For better or for worse, the Cuban revolution is a very profound and very deep revolution. Much deeper than I had understood," Sanders wrote. "More interesting than their providing their people with free health care, free education, free housing ... is that they are in fact creating a very different value system than the one we are familiar with."

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.....and?

Uber Genius said:

Of Cuba Sanders says:

"For better or for worse, the Cuban revolution is a very profound and very deep revolution. Much deeper than I had understood," Sanders wrote. "More interesting than their providing their people with free health care, free education, free housing ... is that they are in fact creating a very different value system than the one we are familiar with."

Of Moscow Sanders said:

"There are some things that [the Soviet Union does] better than we do and which were, in fact, quite impressive. Subway systems in in Moscow costs 5 kopecs — or 7 cents. Faster, cleaner, more attractive and more efficient than any in the U.S. — and cheap," an official statement from the Burlington's office reads. "The train trip that we took from Leningrad to Moscow — for Soviet citizens — was very cheap." Sanders then went on to praise "programs for youth and workers" that he saw during the trip.

Just not so sure that Bernie supporters have any idea about the horrible nature of these socialist regimes that Bernie praised. Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia are all top on human rights abuse, malnutrition, economic collapse. Bernie needs to walk back his 35-year history of praising these regimes.

For more see:Bernie Sanders praised communist Cuba and the Soviet Union in the 1980s

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This is now the second thread you've started to dishonestly paint Bernie as some sort of dangerous authoritarian. *searches* Oh, look at that - the first one got deleted. Flaming?

I'll ask again - do you think this sort of attack is clever or do you think the rest of us are merely dumb enough to not see through it?

iluvatar5150 said:

This is now the second thread you've started to dishonestly paint Bernie as some sort of dangerous authoritarian. *searches* Oh, look at that - the first one got deleted. Flaming?

I'll ask again - do you think this sort of attack is clever or do you think the rest of us are merely dumb enough to not see through it?

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I've haven't been around here much...
but I don't see the O.P. as being fearful of authoritarian govt as much as to say how horrible socialism is.

I think everyone that wants a socialist America should just give up and move to Cuba.

They'd have free healthcare and free schooling and everything is free down there. It's a wonderful place to live.

So,,,whatcha waitin' fer to move?

GodsGrace101 said:

I've haven't been around here much...

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Then you're missing some context.

but I don't see the O.P. as being fearful of authoritarian govt as much as to say how horrible socialism is.

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The OP said:

Just not so sure that Bernie supporters have any idea about the horrible nature of these socialist regimes that Bernie praised. Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia are all top on human rights abuse, malnutrition, economic collapse.

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Human rights abuses have nothing to do with socialism. Economic collapse can be a result of the most extreme and inept forms of socialism, but they're not the result of the sort of European-style democratic socialism that Bernie espouses.

It's supremely dishonest and just pretty stupid to take Bernie's very narrow praise of certain aspects of these societies and try to extrapolate it to him being okay with all of the bad things that they did. It would be like saying that because I think Trump is pretty good at marketing and self-branding that I'm also okay with his race-baiting and his narcissism. Not only is it wildly incorrect, it's just dumb.

Remember how in the 1980s the USA not only praised the Afghan mujahideen as "freedom fighters" during the Afghan-Soviet war, but also gave them money via other Muslim nations? Remember who was president at the time, and which party he was from? (The NY Times remembers, if no one here does.)

Sometimes things that seemed acceptable or even good in the past seem not so good 30 years later when yesterday's revolutionary forces are clearly today's regressive forces. Granted, I don't think that this makes praise of Castro's Cuba into some sort of 'oopsie', as though people back then didn't already know it sucked (just ask anyone in the Cuban community in Florida), but it's silly to pretend that because Sanders offered some measured positive evaluations of Moscow's subways and Cuba's free healthcare (saying essentially that in these aspects they're not all bad), it was tantamount to praising dictators or cheering on human rights abuses. At best in those comments he turned a blind eye to the parts of those places and systems that he either didn't want to see or was naive regarding the true nature of, which is again no different than how only a few decades ago the forces and network that would eventually make up Al Qaeda were praised and supported for being pointed against that generation's bad guys.

Nobody has to like Sanders, but it would be nice if the right-wing press were consistent.

Yeah, sorry to break it to everyone, but there were things about the Soviet Union that were good. And you can ask any immigrant (or any person who still lives there), and they can praise those things without expressing support horrific crimes, Stalin's countless murders, etc.

What were some of those good things?

You could get real time off work and go away with your family to a nice, low-key "resort" kind of place. Normal people could do this. Education was free and was at a pretty high level. Public transit in the cities worked and was cheap. It STILL WORKS. The Moscow subway is still so much better than the New York subway, it's insane. Is this some kind of authoritarian dream, that if you miss a subway train in the evening, another will be by in 2 minutes, not in 35 minutes?

Lol. I think if you can find a quote of Bernie praising Russian vodka or praising the Hermitage & Tolstoy Trump supporters would feel jubilant & hold that up. Ok maybe not bc I don't know if they'd know what the latter two are.

Uber Genius said:

Of Cuba Sanders says:

"For better or for worse, the Cuban revolution is a very profound and very deep revolution. Much deeper than I had understood," Sanders wrote. "More interesting than their providing their people with free health care, free education, free housing ... is that they are in fact creating a very different value system than the one we are familiar with."

Of Moscow Sanders said:

"There are some things that [the Soviet Union does] better than we do and which were, in fact, quite impressive. Subway systems in in Moscow costs 5 kopecs — or 7 cents. Faster, cleaner, more attractive and more efficient than any in the U.S. — and cheap," an official statement from the Burlington's office reads. "The train trip that we took from Leningrad to Moscow — for Soviet citizens — was very cheap." Sanders then went on to praise "programs for youth and workers" that he saw during the trip.

Just not so sure that Bernie supporters have any idea about the horrible nature of these socialist regimes that Bernie praised. Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia are all top on human rights abuse, malnutrition, economic collapse. Bernie needs to walk back his 35-year history of praising these regimes.

For more see:Bernie Sanders praised communist Cuba and the Soviet Union in the 1980s

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Wasn’t Trump praising Kim Jong Un, Chinese President Xi and the Saudi king like... just last year?

How is that any different?

GoldenBoy89 said:

Wasn’t Trump praising Kim Jong Un, Chinese President Xi and the Saudi king like... just last year?

How is that any different?

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The simple answer is because it's Trump. It obviously makes all the difference in the world that he professes to be a Republican now and he politically panders to conservatives. Just imagine the moral outraged reaction from conservatives if Trump had praised these dictators as a Democratic President.

GACfan said:

The simple answer is because it's Trump. It obviously makes all the difference in the world that he professes to be a Republican now and he politically panders to conservatives. Just imagine the moral outraged reaction from conservatives if Trump had praised these dictators as a Democratic President.

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That’s the thing though. If Trump were a Democrat, we wouldn’t have elected him president.

Uber Genius said:

Of Cuba Sanders says:

"For better or for worse, the Cuban revolution is a very profound and very deep revolution. Much deeper than I had understood," Sanders wrote. "More interesting than their providing their people with free health care, free education, free housing ... is that they are in fact creating a very different value system than the one we are familiar with."

Of Moscow Sanders said:

"There are some things that [the Soviet Union does] better than we do and which were, in fact, quite impressive. Subway systems in in Moscow costs 5 kopecs — or 7 cents. Faster, cleaner, more attractive and more efficient than any in the U.S. — and cheap," an official statement from the Burlington's office reads. "The train trip that we took from Leningrad to Moscow — for Soviet citizens — was very cheap." Sanders then went on to praise "programs for youth and workers" that he saw during the trip.

Just not so sure that Bernie supporters have any idea about the horrible nature of these socialist regimes that Bernie praised. Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia are all top on human rights abuse, malnutrition, economic collapse. Bernie needs to walk back his 35-year history of praising these regimes.

For more see:Bernie Sanders praised communist Cuba and the Soviet Union in the 1980s

Click to expand...

The Party understands the positions of Sanders. Bloomberg and Biden understand thesis positions of Sanders. And, Trump most certainly can't wait to run against Sanders. Curiously, the positions of Bloomberg and Biden in this same time period are of interest, but few understand just how devastating the Sanders speeches from that time will be in November.

GoldenBoy89 said:

That’s the thing though. If Trump were a Democrat, we wouldn’t have elected him president.

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That is true. But if he had run as a Democrat, he would have adopted a different personality.

Desk trauma said:

They obtained the documents but did not include them with the article. Anyone got a line on the primary sources?

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Primary source? That would be Bernie's mouth.

GoldenBoy89 said:

That’s the thing though. If Trump were a Democrat, we wouldn’t have elected him president.

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Of course not. We would have elected the much better Republican candidate. There were at least a half a dozen.

I would note the two leaders of the Democrats are not Democrats, or have been Democrats for a very short time.

archer75 said:

That is true. But if he had run as a Democrat, he would have adopted a different personality.

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You imply abilities that Trump does not have. Trump is who he is, and the voters will consider that when they consider the alternative in November.