Can non-Trinitarians be saved?

grasping the after wind said:

Correct me if I am mistaken but I do not think the thief on the cross that Jesus told would be in paradise was a Trinitarian. Probably the idea of god as a Trinity never crossed( no pun intended ) his mind. To be firmly in the Trinitarian camp, one must first have to have encountered the idea. Baptized infants most likely have no conception of the idea. I don't see any evidence that any of the early church writers had a clear idea of what we now consider to be whole the Trinitarian doctrine. Just because something is true does not mean it is necessary to understand it before being saved. I still do not understand it. I simply accept it without having the foggiest idea how it works despite many attempts by people to explain it to me. Prior to Tertullian, no one had a clear Trinitarian understanding, only a vague idea of the nature of God within Himself. Were all of those persecuted for the sake of belief in Christ prior to Tertullian unsaved ? I think not.

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The saved know the truth when they hear it. The trinity is clearly revealed in scripture. But many read right over it missing it.

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Andrewn said:

The definition of the word "person" is controversial and is variable in different cultures. Using the English word "person" will continue to be a stumbling block for everyone who use their minds: both Christians and non-Christians. It's a great way to turn people away.

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Concord1968 said:

Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums
According to the rules of this forum, belief in the Trinity is an absolute requirement to be considered Christian.

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This is what the rule states -

"It is considered blasphemy to insult or mock Christianity or any part of the Trinity-Father (God), Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. Honest debate about the nature of God and Christian Theology is allowed, but derogatory remarks are not. Contemptuous remarks regarding Christianity or Christian practices are not allowed."

I didn't insult or post any derogatory remarks. In fact condemning others over the trinity could be labelled a derogatory remark.

Dave L said:

So would you think I was OK if I lied about my beliefs, agreeing with you?

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You don't have to lie to disagree. It's un-Christlike to judge another persons spirituality and especially condemn other believers saying they are NOT born again. Instead of condemning - prove your point. I'm as much a born again believer as you are or anybody else on this forum.
And - I'm not a Jehovah's Witness.

Further, nontrinitarianism is necessarily a-historical.

grasping the after wind said:

Prior to Tertullian, no one had a clear Trinitarian understanding.

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The Word and the Spirit are also known as the left and right hand of the Father, the action of the Word and Spirit and the interrelation of the Trinity was a theme discussed by the Jews for several centuries prior to Christ (at least.) Judaism, being altered after the destruction of the Temple, purposefully removed and banned all interpretations lending credence to Christianity theology.

Knowledge isn't saving. That's Gnosticism. You need a more holistic idea of what saving knowledge entails.

Euodius said:

Knowledge isn't saving. That's Gnosticism. You need a more holistic idea of what saving knowledge entails.

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You might not be saved if you cannot understand the bible on simple matters.

Dave L said:

You might not be saved if you cannot understand the bible on simple matters.

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So the severely autistic and the retards and the infants all burn?

Euodius said:

Further, nontrinitarianism is necessarily a-historical.


The Word and the Spirit are also known as the left and right hand of the Father, the action of the Word and Spirit and the interrelation of the Trinity was a theme discussed by the Jews for several centuries prior to Christ (at least.) Judaism, being altered after the destruction of the Temple, purposefully removed and banned all interpretations lending credence to Christianity theology.

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There were numerous gentiles that converted to Christianity that had no idea what the Jews had been discussing for centuries. Were they all unsaved then?

Euodius said:

So the severely autistic and the retards and the infants all burn?

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I said anyone can see it in scripture. If they are in a coma, obviously they cannot even see scripture.

grasping the after wind said:

There were numerous gentiles that converted to Christianity that had no idea what the Jews had been discussing for centuries. Were they all unsaved then?

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I'm not making the claim that intellectual knowledge saves. There is a great difference between heresy and intellectual ignorance.

Oberamagau said:

This is what the rule states -

"It is considered blasphemy to insult or mock Christianity or any part of the Trinity-Father (God), Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. Honest debate about the nature of God and Christian Theology is allowed, but derogatory remarks are not. Contemptuous remarks regarding Christianity or Christian practices are not allowed."

I didn't insult or post any derogatory remarks. In fact condemning others over the trinity could be labelled a derogatory remark.


You don't have to lie to disagree. It's un-Christlike to judge another persons spirituality and especially condemn other believers saying they are NOT born again. Instead of condemning - prove your point. I'm as much a born again believer as you are or anybody else on this forum.
And - I'm not a Jehovah's Witness.

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And if you read further you see this:

"Christians Only Forums

There are forums reserved for Christian members only. Please do not post in these forums unless you are truly a Christian (please see our Statement of Faith to know exactly what that is). Unorthodox, non-Nicene Christian theology may only be discussed in the Controversial Theology forum."

Which leads to this:

"
Statement of Faith

The Nicene Creed

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13) In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)"

Andrewn said:

This statement clearly excludes LDS, JW, Unitarian, and Gnostic threads. The last sentence excludes Oneness threads. A significant number of participants in this thread seemed to show a higher degree of acceptance of Oneness believers compared to believers of other non-Trinitarian doctrines.

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That's not surprising. As far as I can tell, Oneness theology is close to Chalcedon about the Incarnation. The others differ not just on the Trinity but on Christ.

Dave L said:

So I believe they are not saved and possibly have the spirit of Antichrist at work in them. According to John who says any who deny Jesus Christ (God the trinity) came in the flesh has not God, but the spirit of Antichrist.

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I don't know of any nontrinitarians that deny the deity of Christ. Typically, the person of the Holy Spirit is the one left out by them. As I understand it.

Sabertooth said:

OnePens DO acknowledge His divinity.

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That does it!
I need to have TWO pens on me at all times. - lol

Question: "Do you believe in the Trinity?"
Answer: "That de-Pens..."

Saint Steven said:

I don't know of any nontrinitarians that deny the deity of Christ. Typically, the person of the Holy Spirit is the one left out by them. As I understand it.

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A false definition of Christ = a false Christ.

Dave L said:

A false definition of Christ = a false Christ.

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Does salvation depend on a correct definition of Christ?
That would be up to us. Thus saved by "correct" doctrine? (whatever that means)

Saint Steven said: ↑
I don't know of any nontrinitarians that deny the deity of Christ. Typically, the person of the Holy Spirit is the one left out by them. As I understand it.

Saint Steven said:

Does salvation depend on a correct definition of Christ?
That would be up to us. Thus saved by "correct" doctrine? (whatever that means)

Saint Steven said: ↑
I don't know of any nontrinitarians that deny the deity of Christ. Typically, the person of the Holy Spirit is the one left out by them. As I understand it.

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It works like this. Jesus says his sheep know his voice and follow him. if someone cannot hear his voice, they cannot follow him. But more than likely they follow one of many false Christs.

Dave L said:

It works like this. Jesus says his sheep know his voice and follow him. if someone cannot hear his voice, they cannot follow him. But more than likely they follow one of many false Christs.

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Why would a misunderstanding on the part of the seeker disqualify them from hearing Jesus' voice? For that matter, are you claiming you can "hear" Jesus' voice? Does Jesus reject seekers based on a misunderstandings of who exactly he is? It seems that a child-like faith would likely have some of the "doctrine" incorrect. Yet Jesus says they are the type he is looking for. I am less and less likely to think that doctrine matters at all. There seems to be no consensus anyway. Is everyone lost? (due to questionable doctrine)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Does salvation depend on a correct definition of Christ?
That would be up to us. Thus saved by "correct" doctrine? (whatever that means)

Saint Steven said: ↑
I don't know of any nontrinitarians that deny the deity of Christ. Typically, the person of the Holy Spirit is the one left out by them. As I understand it.

Dave L said:

It works like this. Jesus says his sheep know his voice and follow him. if someone cannot hear his voice, they cannot follow him. But more than likely they follow one of many false Christs.

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Er...if my memory serves me correct, you are on record denying that people can hear Christ these days.
Correct me if I'm wrong here.