Harry Potter should not be watched by Christians.

Can Christians fill their minds with Harry Potter, Narnia, & other magic type fantasy?


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Credos4Christ

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False syllogism. That's all I can say about this entire argument. The verse you cited from Matthew 5 is not talking about fantasy as in Tolkien, Rowling, and all the rest—it's talking about human lust. It's talking about chasing after a woman and "committing adultery in your heart."

What's more, the idea of Harry Potter as an occult form of media simply isn't true. I highly doubt any kids watching the movies are going out, molding wands and actually casting spells or creating potions. The 'magic' depicted in Harry Potter is a mechanism through which a larger story is told.

As others have pointed out, for this argument to be consistent, Lord of the Rings must also be "occult." But Tolkien, an avid Christian, wrote that series using many literary themes and tropes associated with Christianity!

I truly believe this argument is a false syllogism: it's based on a premise that's assumed true, and, when drawing its conclusion, doesn't quite support itself.
 
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dms1972

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What is science, hard rules, experimenting is symbolized with spells and cheats. Computers, and machines appear no different if you do not understand them.

I have to disagree with you there. There is nothing rational about the use of magic in Harry Potter, it is chaotic, and it is not symbolic of science, hard rules or experiment.

At first sight a TV or mobile phone might appear to be like magic to a primitive who had never seen one, but the difference is these work according to understood principles of electronics and telecommunications, magic on the other hand has no relation to science whatsoever.
 
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dms1972

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False syllogism. That's all I can say about this entire argument. The verse you cited from Matthew 5 is not talking about fantasy as in Tolkien, Rowling, and all the rest—it's talking about human lust. It's talking about chasing after a woman and "committing adultery in your heart."

What's more, the idea of Harry Potter as an occult form of media simply isn't true. I highly doubt any kids watching the movies are going out, molding wands and actually casting spells or creating potions. The 'magic' depicted in Harry Potter is a mechanism through which a larger story is told.

As others have pointed out, for this argument to be consistent, Lord of the Rings must also be "occult." But Tolkien, an avid Christian, wrote that series using many literary themes and tropes associated with Christianity!

I truly believe this argument is a false syllogism: it's based on a premise that's assumed true, and, when drawing its conclusion, doesn't quite support itself.

I agree the OP's argument is not well made, but there has been an increase in interest in occultism in some countries since the time of the publication of the Harry Potter books, its been noticed in Germany for instance.

https://www.thelocal.de/20181009/magic-appeal-germanys-growing-interest-in-wizardry

Some of this is may be just interest in parlour magic, tricks, but I think its all a bit unhealthy especially if kids begin prefering magical explanations for some things occuring. I think that is a bit of retrograde step for society.

The Harry Potter books may not lead in one step directly into the occult, but they can be disarming as regards the danger and dirt of the occult, and you can buy books on witch-craft in more books stores nowadays than in the past when it was illegal.
 
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zippy2006

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Your whole arguments against HP are just out fundamentalistic religious view they are not educated or backed with any intellectual reasoning. It's a misclassification of evil because of how you can't look past an immediate visual imagery; everything is looked through this fundamentalistic lens.

There is no ties or any promoting of anything you believe. That is what the word "fiction" is being used in the context of this thread.

You're going to need to run this through some sort of grammar software if we are going to continue. The sentences don't even make sense.
 
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dms1972

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If we are talking Walt why focus on Barney? Lots of other fantasy in his magic kingdom, not to mention a wizard mouse or wishing upon false idol stars.

I think old school Disney was mostly OK, I have Fantasia on Disc in which was the episode The Sorceror's Apprentice but that was more of a cautionary tale I think about the dangers of seeking magical power, ease, and starting something one might not be able to control after a bit!!!.

However I think most of the later Disney productions promote a more worldly, selfist philosophy.
 
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cyphercat

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Looking back on things, I think that the issue with Harry Potter is that it is part of what led us to having things like "The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina the Witch".
I think it was part of a whittling away at the standards and now you can go to books a million and find full on witchcraft books and spell books meant for teenagers. I'm talking dedicated sections of the store.
Not that the people behind it intended it, or hoped it would get us there, but you can't deny that it played a role.
I'm even abandoning a lot of things that contain magic because I just don't want to be a part of it anymore.
It just breaks my heart to see where we've gotten.
 
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Cis.jd

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I don't get the satanic aspect - I don't think I would criticise it just because its a purple dinosaur costume. But if it really did this, i mean if a non-existent animal turned into a costume all by itself, then that costume should be ripped up into tiny pieces, and

serveimage


That's not to say the Barney show is worth watching, I don't like what I have seen of it because its so saccarine, and promotes a sort of togetherness that seems rather false, instead of letting kids find their own pals who share their interests, sports, hobbies, or allowing them to do their own thing in peace, the idea of "the more we get together the happier we'll be" is put forward and while that might seem nice to some, it is saccarine, and makes kids feel they have to be part of the group to be happy, even if they are not interested in what the group is playing or doing. Imagine three kids who are out to break into a car and steal the radio, and this one kid who is kicking his football against the wall, is the one kid going to be happier trailing round with those three, not knowing what they are up to? No. That's why the message of the show is idealistic gas.

Just because Barney isn't real himself and just some guy inside a costume doesn't mean it's not harmful, i mean look at Jason, he is a guy wearing a goalie mask.. this is fiction, so clearly this is the a logical example therefore Barney is just as harmful to kids..
 
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createdtoworship

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The whole Harry Potter is not bad because is fiction excuse does not work. Jesus condemned the mind sin of lust (Which is fantasy) in Matthew 5:28-30. We are told to cast down imaginations and lead every thought captive in obedience to Christ Jesus in 2 Corinthians 10:5. Harry Potter is the glorification of witchcraft. God condemned witchcraft heavily in the Old Testament. To think about something sinful in a fantasy way does not make it any less sinful. Is cartoon inappropriate content okay? Surely not. Just because it is pure fantasy does not undo the fact that sin is being pushed or communicated upon the viewer. It's wrong. Harry Potter is a promotion of witchcraft in a fantasy setting.
I just watched two of the movies with all of my kids and my daughter who is youth leadership at our church, and my wife a former employee of our church as well as myself (former teacher of evangelism). At first I must admit, I was against it. I read all the stuff put out by berean call on it. Then I realized a few years later they also put out warnings against the passion of christ movie because it was rated R for violence and had a few unbiblical scenes. So I think it's over reacting. But if for some reason someone feels impressed by God NOT TO WATCH IT. Don't. Don't grieve the holy spirit. While the movie is dark and shows some stuff like headless ghosts etc. The movie and books helped my son get excited about reading and learning. We could not get him to read any books, yet he loved this series. To me anything that gets someone into reading is good. Now if it was more realistic, if people were saying "hey my son watched harry potter and now desires witch craft." Then that is not good. But we clearly explained that this movie was fake, and fiction, and none of it was real. If it was a real movie, that would be way to scary for kids. But none of my kids walked away being enticed into witchcraft by any means. It's just good clean fun for families to watch it. And in a day and age of plenty of nasty movies, you don't have lots of options. (granted that is not an excuse). But tonight we watched decendants 2 which is a disney movie of decendants of all the old disney characters. Some witches others good beings, faries etc. It's just good clean family fun. No need to get legalistic. But if you feel you shouldn't watch it, then don't and if you feel your kids shouldn't watch it then don't. And you can share why, but don't expect everyone to have the same convictions. The Bible says in the new testament

"Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."
Romans 14:3-5
 
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I just watched two of the movies with all of my kids and my daughter who is youth leadership at our church, and my wife a former employee of our church as well as myself (former teacher of evangelism). At first I must admit, I was against it. I read all the stuff put out by berean call on it. Then I realized a few years later they also put out warnings against the passion of christ movie because it was rated R for violence and had a few unbiblical scenes. So I think it's over reacting. But if for some reason someone feels impressed by God NOT TO WATCH IT. Don't. Don't grieve the holy spirit. While the movie is dark and shows some stuff like headless ghosts etc. The movie and books helped my son get excited about reading and learning. We could not get him to read any books, yet he loved this series. To me anything that gets someone into reading is good. Now if it was more realistic, if people were saying "hey my son watched harry potter and now desires witch craft." Then that is not good. But we clearly explained that this movie was fake, and fiction, and none of it was real. If it was a real movie, that would be way to scary for kids. But none of my kids walked away being enticed into witchcraft by any means. It's just good clean fun for families to watch it. And in a day and age of plenty of nasty movies, you don't have lots of options. (granted that is not an excuse). But tonight we watched decendants 2 which is a disney movie of decendants of all the old disney characters. Some witches others good beings, faries etc. It's just good clean family fun. No need to get legalistic. But if you feel you shouldn't watch it, then don't and if you feel your kids shouldn't watch it then don't. And you can share why, but don't expect everyone to have the same convictions.

I believe there are several reasons why people today cannot see Harry Potter or magic in movies as being pure evil (Note: Please do not take what I say personally; I am only telling you what I personally believe; I am not seeking to judge any one person's salvation here, but I am merely relaying what I believe God's Word says on this matter. If you disagree, let's agree to disagree in love and respect).

#1. Movies, video games have become an idol to today's society. They are filled with taking the Lord's name in vain, murder, sexual immorality, witchcraft, lying, theft, hate, idolatry, drunkenness, etc.; 1 Corinthians 15:33 says, "Do not ye be deceived; for evil speeches destroy good conduct. [Do not ye be deceived; forsooth evil speeches corrupt, or destroy, good conduct, or virtues.]" (WYC) (Wycliffe Translation). The King James says "evil communications" instead of "evil speeches." If a person knows anything about reaping and sowing, they should know this. If one listens to junk and or puts junk in their mind, then junk is going to come back out in some way.

#2. They are not fully aware of the seriousness of God's condemnation against sorcery in the Old Testament (2 Chronicles 33:6), and that God had told the Israelites to kill sorcerers. God says whoever does such things is abomination to the LORD (See: Deuteronomy 18:10-12). They are not aware that sorcery is still condemned in the New Testament (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8) (Revelation 22:15). Real people today practice witchcraft and know that these things can lead people into the occult and or witchcraft.

#3. Obedience to Jesus and and or to God's commands is not legalism without God's grace, but it is loyalty to Jesus, it is loving Jesus, and it is a part of eternal life. Jesus said, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46). Jesus said, "My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." (Luke 8:21). Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). Jesus agreed with the lawyer to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). Jesus said if you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love (John 15:10). If you believe things have changed after the cross, this is simply not so. The apostle John taught that by "walking in the light" it relates to the blood of Jesus Christ cleansing us from all sin (1 John 1:7). "Walking in the light" is "loving your brother" (See: 1 John 2:9-11) (Also see: 1 John 3:10, and 1 John 3:15). Paul said if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Some people think today that any obedience to Jesus of any kind as a part of God's plan of salvation is Legalism. Then by all means, they should live in debauchery and live like the most evil criminal they can think of trust in God's grace and see where that gets them come judgment day. I guarantee you, such an individual will not make it into God's kingdom (See: Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42).

#4. They are not aware that there mind sins can condemn like in Matthew 5:28-30. For Jesus says a person can be cast into hellfire for looking upon a woman in lust. He says this is committing adultery in the heart and it condemns a person. Jesus relates this to the physical act of adultery. It's a mental sin based on the physical sin (of which both can condemn a person). So again, fantasizing about sorcery can condemn just as much as the physical act of sorcery. Sure, physical sorcery is far worse and it opens a person up to demonic activity on a much greater scale, but fantasizing about sorcery also has its own demonic influence, too. Why? Because it is an abomination in the sight of the LORD (Deuteronomy 18:10-12).

#5. They think that just because certain forms of entertainment has helped them or their family in some way, it must be good. The devil is not dumb. If he can get people to follow a helpful way or seemingly beneficial way to solve their problems, he will give them what they want as an appearance of something good that is not really good. It is a false way of good that is also filled with corruption and evil.
"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:14).

#6. We are told to love not the world and neither things in the world. (1 John 2:15-17). For if any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in them. Why would one want to straddle the line on this passage in defense of a hollow worldly pleasure that offends God?

#7. In Matthew 16:24, Jesus says for us to pick up our cross, and to deny ourselves and come follow Him. It does not sound like a person is doing that if they are still holding on to the idols that this world worships and loves. Remember what Jesus said about the lukewarm church? He spewed them out of His mouth.


Conclusion for me:

"Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way." (Psalms 119:104).
 
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createdtoworship

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I believe there are several reasons why people today cannot see Harry Potter or magic in movies as being pure evil (Note: Please do not take what I say personally; I am only telling you what I personally believe; I am not seeking to judge any one person's salvation here, but I am merely relaying what I believe God's Word says on this matter. If you disagree, let's agree to disagree in love and respect).

#1. Movies, video games have become an idol to today's society. They are filled with taking the Lord's name in vain, murder, sexual immorality, witchcraft, lying, theft, hate, idolatry, drunkenness, etc.; 1 Corinthians 15:33 says, "Do not ye be deceived; for evil speeches destroy good conduct. [Do not ye be deceived; forsooth evil speeches corrupt, or destroy, good conduct, or virtues.]" (WYC) (Wycliffe Translation). The King James says "evil communications" instead of "evil speeches." If a person knows anything about reaping and sowing, they should know this. If one listens to junk and or puts junk in their mind, then junk is going to come back out in some way.

#2. They are not fully aware of the seriousness of God's condemnation against sorcery in the Old Testament (2 Chronicles 33:6), and that God had told the Israelites to kill sorcerers. God says whoever does such things is abomination to the LORD (See: Deuteronomy 18:10-12). They are not aware that sorcery is still condemned in the New Testament (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8) (Revelation 22:15). Real people today practice witchcraft and know that these things can lead people into the occult and or witchcraft.

#3. Obedience to Jesus and and or to God's commands is not legalism without God's grace, but it is loyalty to Jesus, it is loving Jesus, and it is a part of eternal life. Jesus said, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46). Jesus said, "My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." (Luke 8:21). Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). Jesus agreed with the lawyer to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). Jesus said if you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love (John 15:10). If you believe things have changed after the cross, this is simply not so. The apostle John taught that by "walking in the light" it relates to the blood of Jesus Christ cleansing us from all sin (1 John 1:7). "Walking in the light" is "loving your brother" (See: 1 John 2:9-11) (Also see: 1 John 3:10, and 1 John 3:15). Paul said if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Some people think today that any obedience to Jesus of any kind as a part of God's plan of salvation is Legalism. Then by all means, they should live in debauchery and live like the most evil criminal they can think of trust in God's grace and see where that gets them come judgment day. I guarantee you, such an individual will not make it into God's kingdom (See: Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42).

#4. They are not aware that there mind sins can condemn like in Matthew 5:28-30. For Jesus says a person can be cast into hellfire for looking upon a woman in lust. He says this is committing adultery in the heart and it condemns a person. Jesus relates this to the physical act of adultery. It's a mental sin based on the physical sin (of which both can condemn a person). So again, fantasizing about sorcery can condemn just as much as the physical act of sorcery. Sure, physical sorcery is far worse and it opens a person up to demonic activity on a much greater scale, but fantasizing about sorcery also has its own demonic influence, too. Why? Because it is an abomination in the sight of the LORD (Deuteronomy 18:10-12).

#5. They think that just because certain forms of entertainment has helped them or their family in some way, it must be good. The devil is not dumb. If he can get people to follow a helpful way or seemingly beneficial way to solve their problems, he will give them what they want as an appearance of something good that is not really good. It is a false way of good that is also filled with corruption and evil.
"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:14).

#6. We are told to love not the world and neither things in the world. (1 John 2:15-17). For if any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in them. Why would one want to straddle the line on this passage in defense of a hollow worldly pleasure that offends God?

#7. In Matthew 16:24, Jesus says for us to pick up our cross, and to deny ourselves and come follow Him. It does not sound like a person is doing that if they are still holding on to the idols that this world worships and loves. Remember what Jesus said about the lukewarm church? He spewed them out of His mouth.


Conclusion for me:

"Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way." (Psalms 119:104).
thats fine sir. You are convicted by it. That is ok. I recommend that you don't watch it, and it's ok to tell others that you yourself do not want to watch it and for the reasons you mention, which are all good reasons. We however are not convicted by it. I used to be but then I realized the same guys that condemned harry potter were also condemning the passion of the christ because of violence and some questionable theology. Then I just sort of realized, that if we explain that it's not real. Then all the stuff you mention sort of takes care of itself. I look at it like putting a christmas tree up, yes jeremiah forbids putting up a tree and decorating it (Jeremiah 10:3-4), but that is because they were doing it out of idolatry. But one can do it and not be worshiping idols, in fact one can put up a christmas tree and be led to Christ by it. They can see the nativity and the crosses on it, and the christmas carols and have a great experience with Christ. When I was in high school it was christmas time, the tree, the whole christmas tradition that made me rededicate my life to God. But the tree was instituted from pagan tradition, so how Can God use that? They were saying the exact same thing in rome in the time of the apostles. There were meat dedicated to the cults and pagans. And some christians were eating of that meat. There were other christians doing holidays that were not necessarily christian as well. And you know what? Paul doesn't condemn He actually exhibits a whole bunch of grace, probably way more that I myself would have exhibited. I am truly a legalist at heart. And that verse really blesses and challenges me that Christ can and does use imperfect things every day. Read romans 14, the whole chapter sometime when you get a chance, here is a snippet...

"Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."
Romans 14:3-5
 
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thats fine sir. You are convicted by it. That is ok. I recommend that you don't watch it, and it's ok to tell others that you yourself do not want to watch it and for the reasons you mention, which are all good reasons. We however are not convicted by it. I used to be but then I realized the same guys that condemned harry potter were also condemning the passion of the christ because of violence and some questionable theology. Then I just sort of realized, that if we explain that it's not real. Then all the stuff you mention sort of takes care of itself. I look at it like putting a christmas tree up, yes jeremiah forbids putting up a tree and decorating it (Jeremiah 10:3-4), but that is because they were doing it out of idolatry. But one can do it and not be worshiping idols, in fact one can put up a christmas tree and be led to Christ by it. They can see the nativity and the crosses on it, and the christmas carols and have a great experience with Christ. When I was in high school it was christmas time, the tree, the whole christmas tradition that made me rededicate my life to God. But the tree was instituted from pagan tradition, so how Can God use that? They were saying the exact same thing in rome in the time of the apostles. There were meat dedicated to the cults and pagans. And some christians were eating of that meat. There were other christians doing holidays that were not necessarily christian as well. And you know what? Paul doesn't condemn He actually exhibits a whole bunch of grace, probably way more that I myself would have exhibited. I am truly a legalist at heart. And that verse really blesses and challenges me that Christ can and does use imperfect things every day. Read romans 14, the whole chapter sometime when you get a chance, here is a snippet...

"Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."
Romans 14:3-5

We are not talking about eating and drinking certain things. Neither are we referring to the Sabbaths, either. There is nothing in context in Romans 14 about how you can fill your mind with sinful things that God condemns with hell fire and condemnation. Jesus makes it clear that such a thing is forbidden (Matthew 5:28-30).

As for Christmas: That is a whole nother can of worms.

I created a CF thread on that here as to why that day is unbiblical.
Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).
 
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