The Demise of Evolution

OldWiseGuy said:

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

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That's an unsupported claim, and is consistent with my description of The Bible as 'the claim' (or a set of claims.)

Do you have any actual evidence that faith is valid evidence for things not seen? Do you dispute that there are an awful lot of people who have faith in things that are plain wrong?

Subduction Zone said:

I don't think that will work. The problem may be the weak faith of some Christians. If God does not behave the way they want him to they think that he has been "refuted"

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You have to make it more alluring. You can't appeal to the intellect, but to the basic nature.

AnotherAtheist said:

That's an unsupported claim, and is consistent with my description of The Bible as 'the claim' (or a set of claims.)

Do you have any actual evidence that faith is valid evidence for things not seen? Do you dispute that there are an awful lot of people who have faith in things that are plain wrong?

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I can vouch for the veracity of many of God's statements in my own life by the blessings I have received. Regarding things not seen science will come up against that in time.

Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Science has pretty much determined that everything is made of or from energy. It will be a giant step for science but a small one for believers when science determines that there is an unseen force that holds everything together. That force is the authority of God's word.

OldWiseGuy said:

I can vouch for the veracity of many of God's statements in my own life by the blessings I have received. Regarding things not seen science will come up against that in time. (retrieving supporting scripture)

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So, The Bible is true because you say it is? Is that the strength of youur argument?

OldWiseGuy said:

Sorry, I should have used the term rock instead of rocks. Using concrete as an example; a concrete building has design, but if it is bombed to rubble in a war the original design is lost. Same with common rocks lying around. They were once part of carefully designed structures before various cataclysms reduced them to boulders, rocks, pebbles, and sand.

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So what is it about rock that makes you think it was designed. Do you have any evidence that a particular boulder I find out walking in the bush was once part of some carefully designed structure?

roman2819 said:

Is there scientific proof of how life began? And yet we are here, regardless of what science say.

2 questions:

Must we insist that science prove everything before we believe?

And what do you think is next question..... Hint: It is pertaining to the millions of lifeforms on earth

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No one is saying that science has provided the answer to how life began. But what you are doing is invoking the God of the Gaps; that is, using the idea of God as an explanation where science has so far been unable to provide its own explanation. I must point out that the gap that God has to operate in has been getting ever smaller as science has progressed. Indeed, the track record has shown that things have scientific explanations. There are many cases where things once explained with religion are now explained with science, yet the opposite is never the case. So, it seems far more likely that science will one day provide a better explanation of how life started, even if we don't have that answer right now.

OldWiseGuy said:

Get a bunch of dishonest people to become honest and observe the results over time.

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How would you know they were really being honest and not lying about being honest?

Kylie said:

So what is it about rock that makes you think it was designed. Do you have any evidence that a particular boulder I find out walking in the bush was once part of some carefully designed structure?

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That's what the geologists say, albeit sans the term 'carefully designed'. I read a geology paper that reported finding huge boulders several miles from their original site on an outcropping of a particular kind of rock. It determined that the boulders were carried along by a very powerful flood event.

Kylie said:

How would you know they were really being honest and not lying about being honest?

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I guess you have to interview them and then decide. Over the years many of us men confessed our past sinfulness to each other, and I had no reason to believe that these stories were untrue, or that they were still engaged in that behavior.

OldWiseGuy said:

I can vouch for the veracity of many of God's statements in my own life by the blessings I have received. Regarding things not seen science will come up against that in time.

Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Science has pretty much determined that everything is made of or from energy. It will be a giant step for science but a small one for believers when science determines that there is an unseen force that holds everything together. That force is the authority of God's word.

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I was hoping that you would post something that isn't 'The Bible is true because I say it is.' Do you have anything?

OldWiseGuy said:

I'm guessing that those pretty good odds will never be validated.

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you can guess what ever you want, but it shows you don't understand evolution, or even odds if you think they are meaningful. Large numbers look impressive untill you realize the number of chances there is for something to happen. Nothing random about chemistry or abiogenesis if it happened, just the inevitableness of how chemistry works.

OldWiseGuy said:

You have to have faith that the person will answer honestly.

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That means that your test fails from the very beginning.

OldWiseGuy said:

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

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You know what this tells us? That the writers of the Bible did not understand the concept of evidence either (another possibility is that the translators screwed up).

OldWiseGuy said:

You have to make it more alluring. You can't appeal to the intellect, but to the basic nature.

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Why? Are you saying that creationists are inherently dishonest? You may be right.

OldWiseGuy said:

That's what the geologists say, albeit sans the term 'carefully designed'. I read a geology paper that reported finding huge boulders several miles from their original site on an outcropping of a particular kind of rock. It determined that the boulders were carried along by a very powerful flood event.

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And exactly what part of that makes you think it means that the boulders were once part of a deliberately designed structure?

OldWiseGuy said:

I guess you have to interview them and then decide. Over the years many of us men confessed our past sinfulness to each other, and I had no reason to believe that these stories were untrue, or that they were still engaged in that behavior.

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So you just assumed that the people who had been known for their dishonesty were now being honest because they said so?

OldWiseGuy said:

Lots of studies on this that reveal purposeful design, including the selection of specialized materials (you guys did the studies).

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Still no evidence.
Typical of disingenuous troll-types.

OldWiseGuy said:

That's what the geologists say, albeit sans the term 'carefully designed'. I read a geology paper that reported finding huge boulders several miles from their original site on an outcropping of a particular kind of rock. It determined that the boulders were carried along by a very powerful flood event.

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Citation please.

OldWiseGuy said:

Voting to keep liberals out the White House isn't 'worshipping' Trump.

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The effect is the same.

And I like most of his policies.

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So you also hate the sojourner?
Are cool with not feeding the poor?
Think that the continued reliance on the failed policy of 'trickle down' is a winner?
Think opening up national parks to mining and oil exploration (with ZERO benefit to taxpayers) is dandy?
You're cool with his policy of punishing his "enemies" and rewarding his criminal pals is cool?

And what about his serial adultery and P^$$% grabbing?

Typical.

Are you following me?

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Are you a paranoid troll?

OldWiseGuy said:

The difference is that God means it.

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Great trolling.