Who Changed Shabbat?

HARK! said:

That all sounds very complicated and confusing. Our heavenly Father is not the author of confusion. I'm also of the understanding that the simplest explanation is more likely correct.

Click to expand...

Brother, not everything in the Scriptures is "milk", part of the truth is "solid food" that requires you to "try to understand" the truth as teachers.


United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

HARK! said:

Brother, the decalogue is milk.

Click to expand...

Brother, the Sabbath given in Genesis is "solid food" and not "milk" as you "assumed" of the entire decalogue. Such “assumptions” are what derail as from finding all the truths in the Scriptures.

HARK! said:

Honoring the Sabbath is in the decalogue. This verse defines a sabbath: (CLV) Lv 23:32 It is a sabbath of cessation for you, and you will humble your souls. On the ninth day of the month in the evening, from evening until evening shall you cease for your sabbath.

Click to expand...

I agree with you that the instructions given to Israel on how to remember the Eden-Sabbath in Israel are “milk”, clear direct instructions from God that do not require the understanding of the first Sabbath in Eden to obey correctly in Israel.

HARK! said:

If you can find a verse which defines a sabbath within another time frame; I'll take that into consideration. Remember, your interpretation of scripture does not trump what scripture actually says. The verse you provide me should clearly contradict the verse I just provided for you.

Click to expand...

The passage I can give you does not contradict the passage of Leviticus, but only increases our understanding of the Eden-Sabbath remembered in Israel. However, the passage is not “milk” like the Leviticus passage, it is “solid food”, which requires an effort to understand its complete message.

HARK! said:

I don't believe that you can meet that challenge; therefore I'm not willing to accept your interpretation, which contradicts what is clearly defined in scripture.

Click to expand...

I am not contradicting the scriptures; I just correct the wrong human “assumptions” about what the Scriptures teach us. I do not have a “milk” passage for you like the Leviticus passage, what I do have is a “solid food” passage in Genesis that shows the “assumption” that the Eden-Sabbath in Israel is the seventh day in Israel is wrong. From the “evening” until the “morning” God has nothing to report because He created during the previous light period from the first light until the “evening” and stopped creating from the “evening” until the light again in the “morning”, making the first day from the first light to the light again in the “morning” or from “morning" to "morning" until the first Sabbath from “morning” to “morning”.


United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

HARK! said:

What did you win? What does this have to do with the OP?

Click to expand...

It has everything to do with the OP.

Mary went to the tomb on the morning of the first day. Mark said the Sabbath was over before Mary bought spices to anoint Jesus.

Mark 16:1
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him. Very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

The translation is correct that the Sabbath was over. You can't argue with the translation.

Jesus was witnessed to be risen on the first day by the apostles.

HARK! said:

Nowhere in scripture do I see this term.

Click to expand...

Correct, the word 'Sabbath' is not mentioned until Exodus. The concept that a Sabbath observance carried any penalty, is not even mentioned until deep into Exodus.

HARK! said:

Evening precedes morning-the first day, not the other way around.

Click to expand...

Brother, according to God’s use of the word in Leviticus, the words “evening” and “morning” confine the beginning and the ending of a period within two instances. The words “evening” and “morning” are sunset and sunrise with a precise instance that is not a period like the words: “day” and “night”, importantly defined in the previous sentence, but not used at the end of the first day. A period of darkness ended the first day with the half a day period that God called "night" from the first "evening" to the light again in the “morning” or a period from “evening” to “morning” of darkness, because the period of light came first on the first day of the creation week. What is important to notice is that evening to evening in Leviticus is not the same as evening to morning in Genesis. Between the evenings in Leviticus there is a morning not mentioned that is used in Genesis to confine the half period of the “night” that comes first in Israel’s Eden-Sabbath, but comes second in Genesis’ first day.


United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

guevaraj said:

Brother, you win a greater understanding of the passage by learning that Jesus did not resurrect on Sunday and really rose on the night of the seventh day, so early before the next day at sunrise that it was still the seventh day when Jesus rose. Jesus had the "night" period from “evening” until “morning” to rise after the Eden-Sabbath remembered in Israel and before the first day at sunrise as defined in Genesis. The expression “the first of the Sabbaths” is a way of saying the seventh day of the week for future generations who will learn that the first Sabbath in Eden was from morning until morning and not from evening until evening as Israel wrongly "assumed". The phrase in all our Bibles saying “the first day of the week” is invented based on context, because they did not understand what God was saying with the phrase “the first of the Sabbaths” and the translators took liberty based on this passage and others of the same event and “assumed” Jesus rose on Sunday after the Eden-Sabbath in Israel not realizing that there is a “night” period after the Eden-Sabbath in Israel is over and before the first day in Israel at sunrise as defined in Genesis, where the days are from sunrise until the next sunrise.

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first of the Sabbaths, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:1-2 KJV corrected)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Click to expand...

Mark states the Sabbath was over before Mary went to the tomb to anoint Jesus. You cannot debate this point (Mark 16:1).

Your attempt at providing an alternate translation of Mark 16:1-2 is flawed.

HARK! said:

In the beginning was the word. How is it that Abraham obeyed YHWH's law; before YHWH wrote it down for Moses?

Click to expand...

Do you believe the law of Moses existed before Exodus?

klutedavid said:

Why don't you quote Isaiah 66:23 in full,

Click to expand...

because I am hoping someone will bring it up as if "from Sabbath to Sabbath" is an odd and never-validated way to say "daily", and then I can point out that in Isaiah 66:23 it is "two distinct cycles" in the New Earth.

Why do we never see you quote Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before me to worship" freely admitting that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - ALL mankind is keeping the Sabbath???

And now the big question for you -- why do you reject the Sabbath knowing full well that not only are gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in Isaiah 56:6-8 and not only is "all mankind" the scope in Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for mankind" in Genesis 1-2 when both are made , and not only do we see gentiles assemble for gospel preaching "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4 along with Jew, but also for all eternity after the cross "all mankind" comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath"?

What answer do you have?

HARK! said:

I believe the Law of YHWH existed before Moshe. YHWH rested on the seventh day.

Click to expand...

Very true

klutedavid said:

Correct, the word 'Sabbath' is not mentioned until Exodus.

Click to expand...

You know that is not true...

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

You know that is not true...

Click to expand...

amen to that --

=========================================================
Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible
Genesis 2:2-7 . THE FIRST SABBATH.

2. and he rested on the seventh day--not to repose from exhaustion with labor (see Isaiah 40:28 ), but ceased from working, an example equivalent to a command that we also should cease from labor of every kind.

3. blessed and sanctified the seventh day--a peculiar distinction put upon it above the other six days, and showing it was devoted to sacred purposes. The institution of the Sabbath is as old as creation, giving rise to that weekly division of time which prevailed in the earliest ages. It is a wise and beneficent law, affording that regular interval of rest which the physical nature of man and the animals employed in his service requires, and the neglect of which brings both to premature decay. Moreover, it secures an appointed season for religious worship, and if it was necessary in a state of primeval innocence, how much more so now, when mankind has a strong tendency to forget God and His claims?

========================

D.L. Moody firmly believed that as well and it is made clear in "the Baptist Confession of Faith" as well as 'the Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19

HARK! said:

Constantine decreed (March 7, 321) dies Solis—day of the sun, "Sunday"—as the Roman day of rest just prior to the Council of Nicaea:

“On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.”

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]). (The Church Council of Laodicea circa 364 CE)

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third (fourth) Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day." The Catholic Encyclopedia Topic: Ten Commandments, 2nd paragraph

"We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, catholic, apostolic church of Christ."--Episcopalian Bishop Seymour said in "Why We Keep Sunday."

Click to expand...

Hello, the Sabbath has never change...but the day has changed...who change it? It's God Himself... Hebrews 4:7..God again set a certain day calling it "Today"....

pasifika said:

Hello, the Sabbath has never change...but the day has changed...who change it? It's God Himself... Hebrews 4:7..God again set a certain day calling it "Today"....

Click to expand...

Huh?

pasifika said:

Hello, the Sabbath has never change...but the day has changed...who change it? It's God Himself... Hebrews 4:7..God again set a certain day calling it "Today"....

Click to expand...

Nothing in Hebrews 4 says that the day of the week for Sabbath - was changed.

Rather Hebrews 4 says "it remains" just as it was in the days of David.