God and His love

tdidymas · Jan 29, 2020

renniks said:
No, because faith isn't a work. That would go directly against Paul's teaching here. It doesn't take a lot of work. It's a choice, not an action.

It's work if it comes from you, because faith in God takes knowledge, wisdom, courage, endurance, determination, and a lot of other virtues that many people don't have naturally, because this kind of faith must endure through trials. When the disciples asked Jesus who can be saved, He replied "with men it is impossible, but with God all things are possible." So faith that is generated naturally by the human soul is not the saving kind. Only faith given as a free gift from God is the kind that saves.

Besides that, all choices are actions, since it is impossible to separate the two. "Inaction" is merely a contrary action. Whenever you make a choice, you are acting upon something you think you know. The reason why Paul can teach that faith is not a work is because he is talking about the kind of faith that believes the gospel, and it is the gift of God, not a human choice.
TD

renniks · Jan 29, 2020

tdidymas said:
Besides that, all choices are actions, since it is impossible to separate the two. "Inaction" is merely a contrary action. Whenever you make a choice, you are acting upon something you think you know. The reason why Paul can teach that faith is not a work is because he is talking about the kind of faith that believes the gospel, and it is the gift of God, not a human choice.

Faith is dependence on God. It's the opposite of a work. To try and work you way into salvation is exactly how the Jews missed it. Grace is the gift from God.

We are still required to submit, otherwise all the teaching in the Bible about obedience is pointless. And this is where the reformed get so messed up. In trying to put God in control of everything, which seems pious at first, they overshoot and make God the determiner of everything so that there is no room for a person humbling himself as we are told to do. It's as if they think God is just moving all the pieces on the board and we are just his pawns. That's not a Biblical view.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jan 29, 2020

When a human body breathes, it moves, it is an action.
When a human body does not breathe, it is dead. No action.

When faith results in no works, it is dead faith. As written in God's Word.

tdidymas · Jan 29, 2020

renniks said:
Faith is dependence on God. It's the opposite of a work. To try and work you way into salvation is exactly how the Jews missed it. Grace is the gift from God.

We are still required to submit, otherwise all the teaching in the Bible about obedience is pointless. And this is where the reformed get so messed up. In trying to put God in control of everything, which seems pious at first, they overshoot and make God the determiner of everything so that there is no room for a person humbling himself as we are told to do. It's as if they think God is just moving all the pieces on the board and we are just his pawns. That's not a Biblical view.

Your analogy is a straw man, because the "pieces" you're talking about are human beings who animate themselves. I told you before several times there is a difference between the natural realm and the spiritual. Human reasoning is the natural realm, and the unregenerate are under the control of the evil one, as the scripture says. Therefore, natural man cannot will himself to believe as both Paul and John testify, as I quoted them before. So your reasoning doesn't fit what Paul and John teach about man's need for God to do something to individuals, namely raise them to life spiritually, in order to release them from Satan's control. Only then do they believe in the gospel with saving faith.

In the natural realm, people who reason with their natural minds can't see God as sovereign in their salvation. This is why we need the scripture to teach us what God does in the spirit, because we can't know that by natural means or reasoning. The scripture is special revelation from God, and teaches us that God is in control in the spiritual realm, since this is the realm of His kingdom at this time. Therefore, our submission comes after God has released us, that is, after we are born again.

Again, and I think for the last time, I'm saying to you that you do not understand reformed teaching, because you have it mixed up with the aberrant teaching of determinism. You seem to have a commitment to confuse the two. I think because of this, I'll just stop responding to you.

May the Lord bless you.
TD

tdidymas · Jan 29, 2020

StillGods said:
thanks for your help

You're welcome, and may God bless you.
TD

StillGods · Jan 29, 2020

renniks said:
Faith is dependence on God. It's the opposite of a work.

yes.

StillGods · Jan 30, 2020

tdidymas said:
Your analogy is a straw man, because the "pieces" you're talking about are human beings who animate themselves. I told you before several times there is a difference between the natural realm and the spiritual. Human reasoning is the natural realm, and the unregenerate are under the control of the evil one, as the scripture says. Therefore, natural man cannot will himself to believe as both Paul and John testify, as I quoted them before. So your reasoning doesn't fit what Paul and John teach about man's need for God to do something to individuals, namely raise them to life spiritually, in order to release them from Satan's control. Only then do they believe in the gospel with saving faith.

In the natural realm, people who reason with their natural minds can't see God as sovereign in their salvation. This is why we need the scripture to teach us what God does in the spirit, because we can't know that by natural means or reasoning. The scripture is special revelation from God, and teaches us that God is in control in the spiritual realm, since this is the realm of His kingdom at this time. Therefore, our submission comes after God has released us, that is, after we are born again.

Again, and I think for the last time, I'm saying to you that you do not understand reformed teaching, because you have it mixed up with the aberrant teaching of determinism. You seem to have a commitment to confuse the two. I think because of this, I'll just stop responding to you.

May the Lord bless you.
TD

the unregenerate are also under the control of themselves. if just under the control of the devil only we would give a stone when asked for bread every time, but we know how to give good things in our natural selves scripture says, so our natural selves can choose good over evil.

renniks · Jan 30, 2020

tdidymas said:
Your analogy is a straw man, because the "pieces" you're talking about are human beings who animate themselves.

So, now God isn't in control?

BBAS 64 · Feb 18, 2020

Good day,

A good read on the topic is DA Carson's work - https://www.amazon.com/Difficult-Doctrine-Love-God/dp/1581341261

a smaller article posted here:

The Love of God by D.A. Carson

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God and His love

tdidymas

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renniks

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yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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tdidymas

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tdidymas

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StillGods

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StillGods

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renniks

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BBAS 64

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