Should we stop listening to the likes of Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation music?

GaveMeJoy · Feb 17, 2020

lismore said:
Hello. Perhaps there is another possibility. Opportunistic, dubious individuals promoting superficially exciting worldly style music into the huge and hugely lucrative Christian worship market, thereby presenting their own message without the power of the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Bringing people onto the broad road rather than the narrow path (Matthew 7:13-14)

God Bless

I don’t believe these groups are wolves intentionally misleading Christians for financial gain like Benny hinn or Joel Osteen. I think they just are confused doctrinally and propagating false teaching in an misguided effort to follow the Holy Spirit.

LightLoveHope · Feb 18, 2020

Daniel Martinovich said:
Lol, Todd Bentley? What does a novice who fell into the trap of the devil 20 years ago have to do with Bethel or Hillsong? And NAR? Please. So your just calling the entire Pentecostal movement that went from 10,000 people a century ago to almost a billion worldwide of the devil? The Bible’s prophecy says different.

Psalm 66:4"All the earth will worship You, And will sing praises to You; They will sing praises to Your name." Selah.

Written at a time when one nation that was soon to be destroyed leaving only a small remnant. What was in the eyes of the world, one national God among all the the other nations with their Gods. A seemingly impossible prophecy. That one day all the world would be worshiping Jehovah. Yet now we see in every backward country. Every giant shanty town of every city. In every corner of the world. From wealthy industrial nations to the jungles along the equator. From Asian metropolises to Saudi palaces. Jesus is being worshiped. A billion people sing his praises every day. Hundreds of millions of them sing Songs to Christ written by Hillsong everyday.

And I say Hillsong, Bethel and the like are just forerunners of many to come and billions more worshiping the Lord.

Alas. I imagine you are waiting around for Jesus to come and destroy the world though.

Todd Bentley was 2008, and he was anointed and acknowledge as a work of God and blessing by the NAR and the whole leadership team of that time.

The fact he did not preach repentance and faith, but angels and blessing, and 3rd heaven experiences says everything. The theology of being a believer and being possessed by demons, that miracles matter above heart reality, that salvation is not the walk of the straight path, but getting your spiritual guidance from angels, and having affairs, dumping wives is just part of spiritual growth.

Celebrity faith, prosperity based on others giving, is just christian show bizz, and TV stations calling for support day in day out so people will come to faith. The old pentacostals call the Latter Rain movement heretical, yet it has taken over the charismatic church, with the prosperity gospel being another get rich quick gimmic. Throw in gold dust, angel feathers, jewels left by angels, golden caps appearing on your teeth, and the world of the con-artist is here. I know someone in the audience has a bad back, cannot hear properly, but the Lord will now heal them etc. except it is all because they filled in a form describing their condition, sent to the speaker by ear piece to call out as if this is a message from God. Locking up such people is no bad thing, that any true believer aligns themselves with such crooks and charlatans speaks to their own delusion and not the Lord.

Hazelelponi · Feb 18, 2020

Heavenhome said:
Thank you Willing heart for posting these two videos.
Christian's need to be discerning more than ever before and there's no grey areas with God.

It is either sound doctrine or not.

We have to stop being so inclusive just because something declares itself Christian.

I have experienced this recently in a series I was watching where I had to decide where I stood, and I think we are going to experience this more and more in the latter days.

So reading and studying, and obeying the Bible is vital in these latter days.

Amen.

I'm finding what you've been saying lately to be spot on, and it's certainly made me think more about what I'm doing as well.

God bless you..

Daniel Martinovich · Feb 18, 2020

LightLoveHope said:
Todd Bentley was 2008, and he was anointed and acknowledge as a work of God and blessing by the NAR and the whole leadership team of that time.

The fact he did not preach repentance and faith, but angels and blessing, and 3rd heaven experiences says everything. The theology of being a believer and being possessed by demons, that miracles matter above heart reality, that salvation is not the walk of the straight path, but getting your spiritual guidance from angels, and having affairs, dumping wives is just part of spiritual growth.

Celebrity faith, prosperity based on others giving, is just christian show bizz, and TV stations calling for support day in day out so people will come to faith. The old pentacostals call the Latter Rain movement heretical, yet it has taken over the charismatic church, with the prosperity gospel being another get rich quick gimmic. Throw in gold dust, angel feathers, jewels left by angels, golden caps appearing on your teeth, and the world of the con-artist is here. I know someone in the audience has a bad back, cannot hear properly, but the Lord will now heal them etc. except it is all because they filled in a form describing their condition, sent to the speaker by ear piece to call out as if this is a message from God. Locking up such people is no bad thing, that any true believer aligns themselves with such crooks and charlatans speaks to their own delusion and not the Lord.

Todd Bentley was 2008. My bad. Seems like forever ago. I guess tat is because I’m not involved with these people it isn’t fresh in my mind.

There is no such thing as the NAR movement. It’s just a dispersion that can be cast upon anyone in the Pentecostal movement that has won a billion souls to Christ in the last century that gets a little notoriety. (Good or bad notoriety.)
It’s a political phrase designed to elicit a negative emotional response in those to lazy or ignorant to examine the lives and teachings of individual preachers and judge them on their own merits. It’s partisan, ie driven by a sectarian spirit which isn’t some small sin. And when I say judge individual preachers I don’t mean ascertain whether they don’t have any faults, or lacks. I just mean; are they followers of Christ as best they know.

As far as your claim that the old Pentecostals were different. On one hand I tottaly disagree. I have read all their stuff. They were the same and had the same charges laid against them by the sectarians of their day. But on the other hand I do agree they were different. Different because their foundation that they built their Pentecostalism on came out of the America’s second great awakening. Today’s Pentecostal\Charismatic foundation is built upon the erroneous premises and basic doctrines of the evangelical church. Which are immature, crooked ignorant doctrines of men. Half truths, false premises, and error. You simply cannot build a building on such a Biblically illiterate foundation. And yes I am talking about what ALL the mainstream Bible colleges and schools of ministry teach as basic Biblical teachings.

Yet, and unlike the sectarians say. God is with most of these modern Pentecostals just like he is with most of the evangelicals. Neither are “of the devil” and they are on track to win a couple billion more souls to Christ in the next 30 years. Sorry, God would like perfection but he will work with what he has.

Isaiah 54:
9“For to Me this is like the days of Noah, when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth. So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you
or rebuke you.10Though the mountains may be removed
and the hills may be shaken,
My loving devotion will not depart from you, and My covenant of peace will not be broken,” says the LORD, who has compassion on you.

Oh and by the way. The only person ever widely known to do what you said with and ear piece was Peter Popov. Of which I don’t know how anyone could have watched that guy and not known there was something way off about him. But you make my point about a sectarian spirit and people who are NOT men of good will casting dispersions and falsely accusing others. There are ten thousand preachers out there who call people out in the audience. If two or three of them a fakes who use hidden microphones. How is it you get to call all ten thousand of the devil? That is so of the world. I mean the world calls all evangelicals fake because so many evangelical youth pastors get caught with their pants down with some youth. Or they call all Catholics fake because a few dozen priests have molested children. This gets tiring. God will judge the molesters and he will also judge the false accusers.

Dispelling the Myths About NAR (the New Apostolic Reformation)

Hazelelponi · Feb 18, 2020

Daniel Martinovich said:
Todd Bentley was 2008. My bad. Seems like forever ago. I guess tat is because I’m not involved with these people it isn’t fresh in my mind.

There is no such thing as the NAR movement. It’s just a dispersion that can be cast upon anyone in the Pentecostal movement that has won a billion souls to Christ in the last century that gets a little notoriety. (Good or bad notoriety.)
It’s a political phrase designed to elicit a negative emotional response in those to lazy or ignorant to examine the lives and teachings of individual preachers and judge them on their own merits. It’s partisan, ie driven by a sectarian spirit which isn’t some small sin. And when I say judge individual preachers I don’t mean ascertain whether they don’t have any faults, or lacks. I just mean; are they followers of Christ as best they know.

As far as your claim that the old Pentecostals were different. On one hand I tottaly disagree. I have read all their stuff. They were the same and had the same charges laid against them by the sectarians of their day. But on the other hand I do agree they were different. Different because their foundation that they built their Pentecostalism on came out of the America’s second great awakening. Today’s Pentecostal\Charismatic foundation is built upon the erroneous premises and basic doctrines of the evangelical church. Which are immature, crooked ignorant doctrines of men. Half truths, false premises, and error. You simply cannot build a building on such a Biblically illiterate foundation. And yes I am talking about what ALL the mainstream Bible colleges and schools of ministry teach as basic Biblical teachings.

Yet, and unlike the sectarians say. God is with most of these modern Pentecostals just like he is with most of the evangelicals. Neither are “of the devil” and they are on track to win a couple billion more souls to Christ in the next 30 years. Sorry, God would like perfection but he will work with what he has.

Isaiah 54:
9“For to Me this is like the days of Noah, when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth. So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you
or rebuke you.10Though the mountains may be removed
and the hills may be shaken,
My loving devotion will not depart from you, and My covenant of peace will not be broken,” says the LORD, who has compassion on you.

Oh and by the way. The only person ever widely known to do what you said with and ear piece was Peter Popov. Of which I don’t know how anyone could have watched that guy and not known there was something way off about him. But you make my point about a sectarian spirit and people who are NOT men of good will casting dispersions and falsely accusing others. There are ten thousand preachers out there who call people out in the audience. If two or three of them a fakes who use hidden microphones. How is it you get to call all ten thousand of the devil? That is so of the world. I mean the world calls all evangelicals fake because so many evangelical youth pastors get caught with their pants down with some youth. Or they call all Catholics fake because a few dozen priests have molested children. This gets tiring. God will judge the molesters and he will also judge the false accusers.

Dispelling the Myths About NAR (the New Apostolic Reformation)

This is an advice thread so no debate is allowed - yet your running around debating and those who might have something against what your declaring can't even respond because it's a non-debate thread.

If you want discussion and debate, start your own thread in the General Theology forum.. then people who may like can actually respond.

LightLoveHope · Feb 18, 2020

Daniel Martinovich said:
Todd Bentley was 2008. My bad. Seems like forever ago. I guess tat is because I’m not involved with these people it isn’t fresh in my mind.

There is no such thing as the NAR movement. It’s just a dispersion that can be cast upon anyone in the Pentecostal movement that has won a billion souls to Christ in the last century that gets a little notoriety. (Good or bad notoriety.)
It’s a political phrase designed to elicit a negative emotional response in those to lazy or ignorant to examine the lives and teachings of individual preachers and judge them on their own merits. It’s partisan, ie driven by a sectarian spirit which isn’t some small sin. And when I say judge individual preachers I don’t mean ascertain whether they don’t have any faults, or lacks. I just mean; are they followers of Christ as best they know.

As far as your claim that the old Pentecostals were different. On one hand I tottaly disagree. I have read all their stuff. They were the same and had the same charges laid against them by the sectarians of their day. But on the other hand I do agree they were different. Different because their foundation that they built their Pentecostalism on came out of the America’s second great awakening. Today’s Pentecostal\Charismatic foundation is built upon the erroneous premises and basic doctrines of the evangelical church. Which are immature, crooked ignorant doctrines of men. Half truths, false premises, and error. You simply cannot build a building on such a Biblically illiterate foundation. And yes I am talking about what ALL the mainstream Bible colleges and schools of ministry teach as basic Biblical teachings.

Yet, and unlike the sectarians say. God is with most of these modern Pentecostals just like he is with most of the evangelicals. Neither are “of the devil” and they are on track to win a couple billion more souls to Christ in the next 30 years. Sorry, God would like perfection but he will work with what he has.

Isaiah 54:
9“For to Me this is like the days of Noah, when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth. So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you
or rebuke you.10Though the mountains may be removed
and the hills may be shaken,
My loving devotion will not depart from you, and My covenant of peace will not be broken,” says the LORD, who has compassion on you.

Oh and by the way. The only person ever widely known to do what you said with and ear piece was Peter Popov. Of which I don’t know how anyone could have watched that guy and not known there was something way off about him. But you make my point about a sectarian spirit and people who are NOT men of good will casting dispersions and falsely accusing others. There are ten thousand preachers out there who call people out in the audience. If two or three of them a fakes who use hidden microphones. How is it you get to call all ten thousand of the devil? That is so of the world. I mean the world calls all evangelicals fake because so many evangelical youth pastors get caught with their pants down with some youth. Or they call all Catholics fake because a few dozen priests have molested children. This gets tiring. God will judge the molesters and he will also judge the false accusers.

Dispelling the Myths About NAR (the New Apostolic Reformation)

NAR are not a myth. It is a theology of how God moves in the world today, of principalities and powers, of points of blessing in geographical locations, of open heaven, of angels, of the reign of Gods people ushering in the return of Christ. List how many organisations now claim they are led by an apostle, who claim they have prophets even when they speak falsely, who have abandoned holiness for miracles and healing, which fail to occur, of raising the dead as our right, while failing to deliver it.

Latter rain theology, of super apostles appearing to reign with Christ have occurred before and died. And yes it is possible to have 24 hours of prayer, believe God has gifted one to go into hospitals and heal all the sick. We had one guy from the Toronto blessing come to our church and suggest such a thing. Amen to his faith, except did not happen.

If you want the definition of false teaching and faith, it is this. Or the number of fellowships who step out believing God has healed them of cancer, that cancer is of the enemy, and is a spiritual war, except they then die, so have now lost this battle with the enemy and God did not honour their conviction.

Or they were simply wrong and failed to admit God was calling them home, and their role had finished, and anothers was being risen up. In our church I know of at least 4 cases of cancer and prayer and all died. One lady quietly accepted Gods hand, and left.

I love praise of God and Jesus, no matter who is doing it, because He is worthy. And lies and false teaching will come and go, the Lords truth stands firm. The funny thing with super spiritual people, they will fall into pride and failure, and just disappear. But judging another for how they praise, or celebrate I can not do, because who am I to say or know what is in anothers heart.

The prosperity gospel is just wealth self justification. Without technology, industrial production, medicine, modern distribution techniques, the internet, global shipping, that is how we have so much wealth. Is this their God and worthy of their praise? It is ministries self perpetuating themselves through donations, and truly with money they can do a lot. Look at all the cathedrals of the past, it has always been this way in religion. But Jesus is about the heart and in the quiet room dedicating oneself to the things of God, Amen

LightLoveHope · Feb 18, 2020

Daniel Martinovich said:
Todd Bentley was 2008. My bad. Seems like forever ago. I guess tat is because I’m not involved with these people it isn’t fresh in my mind.

There is no such thing as the NAR movement. It’s just a dispersion that can be cast upon anyone in the Pentecostal movement that has won a billion souls to Christ in the last century that gets a little notoriety. (Good or bad notoriety.)
It’s a political phrase designed to elicit a negative emotional response in those to lazy or ignorant to examine the lives and teachings of individual preachers and judge them on their own merits. It’s partisan, ie driven by a sectarian spirit which isn’t some small sin. And when I say judge individual preachers I don’t mean ascertain whether they don’t have any faults, or lacks. I just mean; are they followers of Christ as best they know.

As far as your claim that the old Pentecostals were different. On one hand I tottaly disagree. I have read all their stuff. They were the same and had the same charges laid against them by the sectarians of their day. But on the other hand I do agree they were different. Different because their foundation that they built their Pentecostalism on came out of the America’s second great awakening. Today’s Pentecostal\Charismatic foundation is built upon the erroneous premises and basic doctrines of the evangelical church. Which are immature, crooked ignorant doctrines of men. Half truths, false premises, and error. You simply cannot build a building on such a Biblically illiterate foundation. And yes I am talking about what ALL the mainstream Bible colleges and schools of ministry teach as basic Biblical teachings.

Yet, and unlike the sectarians say. God is with most of these modern Pentecostals just like he is with most of the evangelicals. Neither are “of the devil” and they are on track to win a couple billion more souls to Christ in the next 30 years. Sorry, God would like perfection but he will work with what he has.

Isaiah 54:
9“For to Me this is like the days of Noah, when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth. So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you
or rebuke you.10Though the mountains may be removed
and the hills may be shaken,
My loving devotion will not depart from you, and My covenant of peace will not be broken,” says the LORD, who has compassion on you.

Oh and by the way. The only person ever widely known to do what you said with and ear piece was Peter Popov. Of which I don’t know how anyone could have watched that guy and not known there was something way off about him. But you make my point about a sectarian spirit and people who are NOT men of good will casting dispersions and falsely accusing others. There are ten thousand preachers out there who call people out in the audience. If two or three of them a fakes who use hidden microphones. How is it you get to call all ten thousand of the devil? That is so of the world. I mean the world calls all evangelicals fake because so many evangelical youth pastors get caught with their pants down with some youth. Or they call all Catholics fake because a few dozen priests have molested children. This gets tiring. God will judge the molesters and he will also judge the false accusers.

Dispelling the Myths About NAR (the New Apostolic Reformation)

On a side note, back in 1990 I knew one pastor, who got into supporting Benny Hinn and his ministry. They opened their arms to the prosperity gospel and the idea miracles flow easily.

It does not take long until you find the words are not fulfilled by the reality or action.
Unfortunately hypnotic suggestion is a powerful thing and some are very open to dictates of others. You can show simply some can be healed of conditions they think they have, but are in fact created by themselves to counter an emotional life trauma they cannot cope with.

Studies in how mood affects the brains reaction to pain, has shown some people with chronic pain problems, literally feel less pain when they are happy. This means pain is not objective or a real measure of how big an issue is. So in a meeting with lots of expectation and desire, a sincere heart to believe God has healed, pain can seem to disappear, a healing apparently happening.

So here is the problem. Build a theology based on movable subjective reactions to situations, and you can create what appears real but is just wishful thinking.

Healings are rare. It is why the man begging at the gate of Jerusalem, when he was healed by Jesus through Peter, had such an impact. There was no refutation possible. But healing mission after healing mission when evidence has been asked for of one case, none have come forward. Christ of the heart is real, Christ of healing everyone on demand is not.

lismore · Feb 18, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
I don’t believe these groups are wolves intentionally misleading Christians for financial gain like Benny hinn or Joel Osteen. I think they just are confused doctrinally and propagating false teaching in an misguided effort to follow the Holy Spirit.

Hello GaveMeJoy. Thanks for your reply, however the vid clip I posted in #20. These groups are associated with Joel Olsteen, Benny Hinn and other very dubious individuals. LGBTQI, ecumenism, chrislam. Can two walk together unless they are agreed? Hillsong/Bethel are associated with Joel Olsteen, they do conferences together, other well known names in Evangelical circles lead worship for Joyce Meyer and Pope Francis, who are off the chart weird doctrinally.

The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. No-one can be following the Holy Spirit and be lead into all error.

The return of the Lord is near, the bible warns us of false prophets, false teachers, false believers, wolves in sheep's clothing in the last days again and again and again. We should heed these warnings and steer clear of people teaching dubious things, even if their music appears hip, or exciting or popular. Spiritual discernment is not a popularity contest.

God Bless

lismore · Feb 18, 2020

Daniel Martinovich said:
Lol, Todd Bentley? What does a novice who fell into the trap of the devil 20 years ago have to do with Bethel or Hillsong? And NAR? Please.

Find out who restored Todd Bentley to leadership and who mentored him, who endorses him, who shares platforms with him. That will throw the net far wider.

Miles · Feb 18, 2020

There are many musicians and musical artists out there, capable of producing quality content. It's just that the channels that CCM is filtered through limits the music and what we're exposed to. I'd rather listen to, and perhaps participate in, local homegrown music. I've never quite grasped the appeal of Hillsong etc. I also don't think there's a need for backing tracks in worship, to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

Along similar lines, I'd rather listen to a sermon on the Bible, put together by my pastor, than hear what Rick Warren (or any other big name) has to say about it. This sort of thing, when it goes on long enough, often leads to heretical teaching despite the best of intentions.

IntriKate · Feb 18, 2020

I’ve seen someone request a summary of why they should be avoided but seen no explanation among the finger pointing. Their music has felt from god when I hear it. I’ve been blessed with it many times

Blade · Feb 18, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
I don’t believe these groups are wolves intentionally misleading Christians for financial gain like Benny hinn or Joel Osteen. I think they just are confused doctrinally and propagating false teaching in an misguided effort to follow the Holy Spirit.

I don't know Joel Osteen. Never listen to him. But I did some digging. Saw documents about how he HAS made money and allot. Seems he would buy buildings and land and then resell them. Theres more but.. my point is.. well what got me was its never talked about. I searched for how he personally believes that I found from his mouth "Jesus came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin. Was buried. Rose the 3rd day and is the only way to the Father".

As for Hinn.. seen him say many things.. seen him repent. I am no ones God. If these are wolves.. then I am much worse. For I see my sins.. and I think I am much worse. How ..why.. He so freely forgives.. as if I never sinned. Makes me want to praise fall at His feet and never get up.

We need to know there are things the ENEMY can not do. Will never do. Satan will NEVER in any way point to JESUS CHRIST as lord. Not in word or SONG! That BIBLE was not written by some PERFECT man. They were human. Sinned did things said things thought things.. ALL the GOOD comes from and ONLY the Father..

lismore · Feb 18, 2020

Blade said:
I searched for how he personally believes that I found from his mouth "Jesus came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin. Was buried. Rose the 3rd day and is the only way to the Father".
.

From the horse's mouth:

GaveMeJoy · Feb 18, 2020

Blade said:
I don't know Joel Osteen. Never listen to him. But I did some digging. Saw documents about how he HAS made money and allot. Seems he would buy buildings and land and then resell them. Theres more but.. my point is.. well what got me was its never talked about. I searched for how he personally believes that I found from his mouth "Jesus came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin. Was buried. Rose the 3rd day and is the only way to the Father".

As for Hinn.. seen him say many things.. seen him repent. I am no ones God. If these are wolves.. then I am much worse. For I see my sins.. and I think I am much worse. How ..why.. He so freely forgives.. as if I never sinned. Makes me want to praise fall at His feet and never get up.

We need to know there are things the ENEMY can not do. Will never do. Satan will NEVER in any way point to JESUS CHRIST as lord. Not in word or SONG! That BIBLE was not written by some PERFECT man. They were human. Sinned did things said things thought things.. ALL the GOOD comes from and ONLY the Father..

Hello! Thank you for your response. You are right we are all lost and terrible sinners as am I and I am so grateful for God’s Grace!!!

Osteen’s money issues, while concerning and a potential sign of a false teacher, are not the reason I believe he is a false teacher. He also preaches prosperity gospel which is a savage miscarriage of the true gospel and it comes from Satan.

The word of God tells us that deceiving the believers (like these men) is worse than other sins in that there are greater consequences and accountability for this type of sin.

matt 18:6
"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

James 3:1
Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

while I understand what you mean when you say Satan will never point to Jesus as Lord, I think that Satan points to Jesus often in most of his false religions, just he >adds< other things. That’s why universalist religions preach Jesus is God, just like Buddha and all the other guys. Also prosperity gospel preaches Jesus is lord, the perversion is material wealth is promised and connected to accepting Christ.

I believe that the Bible was actually inspired by the Holy Spirit and is the inspired word of God, so perfect in that sense, even though the men who penned it were imperfect. But not everyone believes this

In Christ,
J

GaveMeJoy · Feb 18, 2020

lismore said:
Hello GaveMeJoy. Thanks for your reply, however the vid clip I posted in #20. These groups are associated with Joel Olsteen, Benny Hinn and other very dubious individuals. LGBTQI, ecumenism, chrislam. Can two walk together unless they are agreed? Hillsong/Bethel are associated with Joel Olsteen, they do conferences together, other well known names in Evangelical circles lead worship for Joyce Meyer and Pope Francis, who are off the chart weird doctrinally.

The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. No-one can be following the Holy Spirit and be lead into all error.

The return of the Lord is near, the bible warns us of false prophets, false teachers, false believers, wolves in sheep's clothing in the last days again and again and again. We should heed these warnings and steer clear of people teaching dubious things, even if their music appears hip, or exciting or popular. Spiritual discernment is not a popularity contest.

God Bless

Thank you for your excellent post.
My thoughts are below:

there are several reasons why I don’t prescribe to the “guilt by association” philosophy regarding other believers. 1) it promotes disunity in the body of Christ 2) it presumes I can judge the calling and hearts of other believers (especially worship leaders and teachers) and the purpose for ministry the Holy Spirit is using them to accomplish 3) it requires me to define personally the intentions for the “association,” the depth and meaning of this association, and the motives behind it. The exact same argument is used by many to attack and discredit God fearing, Christ exalting and scripture honoring men of God like Francis Chan, Ravi Zacharias and Rick Warren, which is 100% of the devil in my opinion. If you think those three are false teachers because they have spoken at conferences with false teachers than I will respectfully discontinue further discourse on the matter.

I was challenged in this thread to listen to bethel sermons and not just clips and I did so. Still see some poor doctrine regarding gifts and manifestations going on, some emotionalism and some hints of poor understanding of financial wealth but again nothing like Hinn and Osteen. I don’t feel in my spirit, that bethel is intentionally deceiving, I just believe they are wrong. I call it out but don’t feel comfortable judging them as wolves as I have a high standard for this (in the past I didn’t and Have been rebuked by the Holy Spirit many times for my pride and presumption). I hope that explains where I am coming from.

I 100% agree no one can be following the HS and be led into error. I will. However, add to this that ALL of us have doctrinal and theological errors of thought and belief that we >think< and >feel< the Holy Spirit has led us to, but we are wrong. Anyone who doesn’t agree with this had a serious pride issue IMHO.

In Christ,
J

FutureAndAHope · Feb 18, 2020

Willing-heart said:
I'm not sure where to post it so I'll post here...

There is no doubt about it that churches like Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation church are somewhat dangerously heretic and controversial in some of their teachings, music and beliefs... There seems to be a rise in some pastors sound in doctrine and other believers warning us to stay away and stop listening to music related to these churches because in some ways, we are supporting these churches by funding them when we listen to their music. I've always thought of these to be a minor issue as I only rather focus on glorying God and if the music is glorying and full of truth to the word of God as revealed in the Bible then I have no problem playing or sharing it... I'm just curious to know what some of you think regarding these things. Please share in all honesty in love and truth. God bless.

I have not followed their teachings closely, but I am always weary of teachers who say "so and so is heretical". I would like to know what is heretical about hillsong, before I made a decision. We can actually be working for satan by calling churches "of the devil", when they may truely be following the leading of the LORD.

Rebecca4Christ · Feb 19, 2020

FutureAndAHope said:
I have not followed their teachings closely, but I am always weary of teachers who say "so and so is heretical". I would like to know what is heretical about hillsong, before I made a decision. We can actually be working for satan by calling churches "of the devil", when they may truely be following the leading of the LORD.

Well for starters Frank Houston, the founder, was a pedophile. His son Brian who is now running the show knew about it and helped cover it up.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 19, 2020

Willing-heart said:
Should we stop listening to the likes of Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation music?

After watching the three videos within this thread..... I am going to say.... "yes."
Throw out all popular big money making Christian music, movies, and books.
Follow Christ and Him alone. In these last days of men departing from the faith, we need to be even more radical for our faith in Jesus. We need to shine the light of Christ to those in darkness in truth (Which is by what His Word says).

Robin Mauro · Feb 19, 2020

Willing-heart said:
I'm not sure where to post it so I'll post here...

There is no doubt about it that churches like Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation church are somewhat dangerously heretic and controversial in some of their teachings, music and beliefs... There seems to be a rise in some pastors sound in doctrine and other believers warning us to stay away and stop listening to music related to these churches because in some ways, we are supporting these churches by funding them when we listen to their music. I've always thought of these to be a minor issue as I only rather focus on glorying God and if the music is glorying and full of truth to the word of God as revealed in the Bible then I have no problem playing or sharing it... I'm just curious to know what some of you think regarding these things. Please share in all honesty in love and truth. God bless.

I heard a radio show on this, on "Christian" radio. Then I heard a pastor lament about how judgemental Christians are. It was regarding a youth pastor showing up as the naked cowboy, having not informed anyone first of what he planned to do. It was a mistake. We all make them. And yes, we should make sure music is Biblical, but we also have to make room for our humanity and not be so quick to judge.
Remember when a group went after and criticized Harry Potter? As certain groups always do...look for reasons to criticize. But Harry Potter was fiction, and was also about good versus evil.
"To the pure, all things are pure, but to the evil, all things are evil."
We need to be careful of the yeast of the pharisees, and not be so quick to judge.

Cimorene · Feb 19, 2020

If you feel it's not healthy for you to listen to them, don't listen to them. I love them!

Should we stop listening to the likes of Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation music?

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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