Can a person having the Holy Spirit be condemned?

Can a person at the time of judgement, having the Holy Spirit be condemned?

  • Vote here if you hold to OSAS.

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • No, a person having the Holy Spirit is a child of God and will be freed in judgement.

    Votes: 7 41.2%
  • Yes, a person having the Holy Spirit at judgement can be condemned because of disobedience.

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • Other (explain), or don't know

    Votes: 5 29.4%

  • Total voters
    17

fhansen

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Epg 1:10-14
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance ...

Rom 8:16-17
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.


If we have the Holy Spirit we are children of God right? Can a child of God really be condemned in the judgement because of disobedience? Doesn't a Christian first need to lose the Holy Spirit to be cast out of God's family to be condemned?
A person can turn back away from God-he can refuse to remain in Him-no longer "having the Holy Spirit".
 
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corinth77777

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I don't know. Why?
I'm not sure but in
my opinionation it was given because it was prophesied

But given to be led by it
To show the inheritance of what is given as we are led by it, the riches in Christ

With the view to the redemption to the praise of His Glory.

It may foreshadow of what is to come alongside Him
Because the question for me is on "redemption"
Is He speaking of Justification on earth that brings redemption. Or at the end redemption of our whole selves...Body, soul, and Spirit?
 
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corinth77777

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A person can turn back away from God-he can refuse to remain in Him-no longer "having the Holy Spirit".
You are taking a position!
So why do you believe the Holy Spirit leaves if it can be grieved, and you are sealed with it until the day of redemption?
 
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corinth77777

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You are taking a position!
So why do you believe the Holy Spirit leaves if it can be grieved, and you are sealed with it until the day if redemption?

Or is it like this, you were marked in Christ.
And the mark was evidence of speaking in tongue, of a clear conscience before God?
or evidence by having revelation etc.

Or should we understand it like this ? You were marked because
That was the starting point to move forward and not backward...and do not be like those destroyed because they did not keep God the center focus of their hearts.
 
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corinth77777

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Or is it like this, you were marked in Christ.
And the mark was evidence of speaking in tongue, of a clear conscience before God?
or evidence by having revelation etc.

Or should we understand it like this ? You were marked because
That was the starting point to move forward and not backward...and do not be like those God destroyed because they did not keep God the center focus of their hearts.
Another words, in that view, we are children, or called children as long as we live by the word?
 
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fhansen

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You are taking a position!
So why do you believe the Holy Spirit leaves if it can be grieved, and you are sealed with it until the day of redemption?
We can lose our status of sonship. Or we may never have had it to begin with. Not all who think they are saved, will be saved. Not all who think the promise belongs to them, are necessarily right. Not all who heard the same words spoken, whether the first audience or at any time in the centuries since and applied those words to themselves are necessarily correct in their self-assessment. Not all will persevere.

And to say that a Christian can be disobedient and still remain just in the eyes of God subverts the whole meaning of the gospel; Jesus came to finally restore justice to a lost and wayward world, not to ignore it! We can still struggle with sin, but if we're not on the path of righteousness and obedience, if we're not overcoming sin in the overall sense, the sin that Jesus came to take away, to heal us of, then we prove that we don't have the Spirit, that we're not remaining in Him. We've left the path that faith sets us on.

"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12:14

There are simply way too many Scriptural exhortations, encouragements, warnings and admonitions, to believers, to remain in Christ, be holy, be perfect, be pure of heart, refrain from sin, be vigilant, strive, persevere, invest ones talents, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, live by the Spirit and not by the flesh, make ones calling and election sure, etc, etc, with the loss of salvation at stake, to think that we can have 100% certainty of our saved status. We can have assurance, based on our relationship with God together with our obedience and production of fruit, just not perfect knowledge on the subject.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Epg 1:10-14
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance ...

Rom 8:16-17
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.


If we have the Holy Spirit we are children of God right? Can a child of God really be condemned in the judgement because of disobedience? Doesn't a Christian first need to lose the Holy Spirit to be cast out of God's family to be condemned?
If you grieve the HS, He departs to some degree. If you quench the HS, he’s gone. A fire quenched is out.
 
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corinth77777

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We can lose our status of sonship. Or we may never have had it to begin with. Not all who think they are saved, will be saved. Not all who think the promise belongs to them, are necessarily right. Not all who heard the same words spoken, whether the first audience or at any time in the centuries since and applied those words to themselves are necessarily correct in their self-assessment. Not all will persevere.

And to say that a Christian can be disobedient and still remain just in the eyes of God subverts the whole meaning of the gospel; Jesus came to finally restore justice to a lost and wayward world, not to ignore it! We can still struggle with sin, but if we're not on the path of righteousness and obedience, if we're not overcoming sin in the overall sense, the sin that Jesus came to take away, to heal us of, then we prove that we don't have the Spirit, that we're not remaining in Him. We've left the path that faith sets us on.

"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12:14

There are simply way too many Scriptural exhortations, encouragements, warnings and admonitions, to believers, to remain in Christ, be holy, be perfect, be pure of heart, refrain from sin, be vigilant, strive, persevere, invest ones talents, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, live by the Spirit and not by the flesh, make ones calling and election sure, etc, etc, with the loss of salvation at stake, to think that we can have 100% certainty of our saved status. We can have assurance, based on our relationship with God together with our obedience and production of fruit, just not perfect knowledge on the subject.
I'm developing a thought and not all of it has been pieced in by scriptures. That makes me a learner, so no need for me to be dogmatic on being right...

Having said that
If indeed, we are Converted, Regenerated,
Then next would come to be Justified, at the
Status of Justification by God then one learns to walk like Him to comform to His image [sanctification]

I don't know what you mean by lose sonship
...but I do not believe you can stop being a son. Either you are born from above I would suggest or you are not. BUT as for our status of being justified I believe, you can lose that status. For if we choose to not trust God...and anything that is not of faith is sin, and since it takes holiness to walk with Him then we loose fellowship, and repentance is necessary in order to be Justified again....But those are merely my opinions and not meant to teach this to anyone...one should study for themselves....

So I do not believe once a person is saved they are always saved from present circumstances in the world, But I do believe when they are brought into the kingdom...this is where they are called sons....or if it means the same...brought out of darkness into the light.
 
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fhansen

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I'm developing a thought and not all of it has been pieced in by scriptures. That makes me a learner, so no need for me to be dogmatic on being right...

Having said that
If indeed, we are Converted, Regenerated,
Then next would come to be Justified, at the
Status of Justification by God then one learns to walk like Him to comform to His image [sanctification]

I don't know what you mean by lose sonship
...but I do not believe you can stop being a son. Either you are born from above I would suggest or you are not. BUT as for our status of being justified I believe, you can lose that status. For if we choose to not trust God...and anything that is not of faith is sin, and since it takes holiness to walk with Him then we loose fellowship, and repentance is necessary in order to be Justified again....But those are merely my opinions and not meant to teach this to anyone...one should study for themselves....

So I do not believe once a person is saved they are always saved from present circumstances in the world, But I do believe when they are brought into the kingdom...this is where they are called sons....or if it means the same...brought out of darkness into the light.
The problem-or difference in understanding here- comes by a difference in basic Christian theology to begin with, which involves the old free will debate. In the ancient Church teachings as I understand them, there wasn't a question as to whether man has some role, however small at first, in his turning to God. IOW, regeneration/sonship still involves choice. We still don't have to be regenerated even as we're given sufficient light, the grace, to see the options and choose rightly. We can say "no" to the Spirit's overtures.

And this choice has been with man since Eden, from the beginning, which is the very reason that we're placed in this world, so that we may now struggle, with sin, with good and evil, and learn to choose between them, never without the help of grace. This is a life-long process in which we're to do the best we can with the experience, knowledge/revelation, grace and time given, working out our salvation together with He who works in us.
 
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corinth77777

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I'm developing a thought and not all of it has been pieced in by scriptures. That makes me a learner, so no need for me to be dogmatic on being right...

Having said that
If indeed, we are Converted, Regenerated,
Then next would come to be Justified, at the
Status of Justification by God then one learns to walk like Him to comform to His image [sanctification]

I don't know what you mean by lose sonship
...but I do not believe you can stop being a son. Either you are born from above I would suggest or you are not. BUT as for our status of being justified I believe, you can lose that status. For if we choose to not trust God...and anything that is not of faith is sin, and since it takes holiness to walk with Him then we loose fellowship, and repentance is necessary in order to be Justified again....But those are merely my opinions and not meant to teach this to anyone...one should study for themselves....

So I do not believe once a person is saved they are always saved from present circumstances in the world, But I do believe when they are brought into the kingdom...this is where they are called sons....or if it means the same...brought out of darkness into the light.
Once truly brought into the light, or born from above. This is a place of Salvation.......by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Spirit. It's like then, getting the end result: life

Now that we see God is at the beginning and the end.....our salvation from present sin is as we walk in what has already been done.
Remaining in Him then is eating from Him daily...continuing in His love....If we do such we stay in the status of being Justified and learn How to live our lives as Christ Did....
Yet if we fall does our conscience not convict us that we may repent and trust Him.
 
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corinth77777

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The problem-or difference in understanding here- comes by a difference in basic Christian theology to begin with, which involves the old free will debate. In the ancient Church teachings as I understand them, there wasn't a question as to whether man has some role, however small at first, in his turning to God. IOW, regeneration/sonship still involves choice. We still don't have to be regenerated even as we're given sufficient light, the grace, to see the options and choose rightly.
It's a combination...as Jesus obeyed the father and the Father did the work....as with all the stories in the Bible regarding God's protection over those who obey by keeping His commands...
 
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fhansen

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It's a combination...as Jesus obeyed the father and the Father did the work....as with all the stories in the Bible regarding God's protection over those who obey by keeping His commands...
Well, yes, and that obedience for us, and perseverance in it, is an "if". Anyway, at the end of the day God judges how well we did with the gifts given. The Parable of the Talents sheds light on this matter.
 
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corinth77777

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It's a combination...as Jesus obeyed the father and the Father did the work....as with all the stories in the Bible regarding God's protection over those who obey by keeping His commands...
In the scripture it says something like: as many has received or even believed on His name He gave the right to become sons of God. Now what makes them a son in my opinion...is Not merely to believe who He is but with the intent to follow. THAT WOULD BE THE FAITH THAT SAVES....and it is God who works on our will....yet we still have choice....
 
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BNR32FAN

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A person who is filled with the Holy Spirit today - still has free will tomorrow therefore Paul says "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others - I myself should be disqualified from it" - 1 Cor 9

There is no salvation apart from Christ, and apart from the Gospel

Paul also wrote to Timothy saying “if we deny Him, He will deny us.”
 
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corinth77777

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Well, yes, and that obedience for us, and perseverance in it, is an "if". Anyway, at the end of the day God judges how well we did with the gifts given. The Parable of the Talents sheds light on this matter.
I BELIEVE GOD IS BEHIND OUR PERSERVERENVE ....I BELIEVE ALL WHO PERSEVERE ARE ALL THAT TRUST JESUS
 
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fhansen

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I BELIEVE GOD IS BEHIND OUR PERSERVERENVE ....I BELIEVE ALL WHO PERSEVERE ARE ALL THAT TRUST JESUS
Hmm, it wouldn't really make much sense for Scripture to tell us to persevere then, let alone to exhort and warn about doing many such things. It's not that we don't need Jesus in order to persevere, it's just that we still remain the wildcard while He's always trustworthy and true. Man will always be obligated to be righteous, to be who he was created to be; but we must acknowledge our need for Him first of all in order to do even begin to do so. That's the major difference between the Old and new Covenants: "Apart for Me you can do nothing." But we must hear about Him and of His words an deeds -so that we know Him and decide, and keep deciding. We must become convinced, and remain convinced, growing in our resolution even as we make our calling and election sure.
 
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corinth77777

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Hmm, it wouldn't really make much sense for Scripture to tell us to persevere then, let alone to exhort and warn about doing many such things. It's not that we don't need Jesus in order to persevere, it's just that we still remain the wildcard while He's always trustworthy and true. Man will always be obligated to be righteous, to be who he was created to be; but we must acknowledge our need for Him first of all in order to do even begin to do so. That's the major difference between the Old and new Covenants: "Apart for Me you can do nothing." But we must hear about Him and of His words an deeds -so that we know Him and decide, and keep deciding. We must become convinced, and remain convinced, growing in our resolution even as we make our calling and election sure.
Give one scripture of PERSERVERENVE, so we can look at it...but now time to get up...must food prep for the week. Nice chatting with u....good stuff....
 
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