Should we stop listening to the likes of Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation music?

Hazelelponi · Feb 17, 2020

Willing-heart said:
Have a listen to Paul Washer and this other pastor:

I know other Christians who are starting to speak out against music by these churches. And I can't ignore their voices anymore, it is somewhat unsettling.

Just a heads up, neither pastor is Paul Washer, I don't know the name of the Pastor that Todd Friel was interviewing on the wretched show, but he's not Paul Washer, and the Pastor in the second video is David Henneke..

Just thought you may appreciate the heads up.

Daniel Martinovich · Feb 17, 2020

crossnote said:
You have heard of a thing called false worship? Of how Israel, in the OT, often was led astray into false worship, which led to departing from the true God?

If course we have. But are these folks fornicators, adulterers, idolators? Far from it. In the majority, but obviously not all cases; they walk in a greater degree of grace, holiness, sanctification and the power of God than their accusers do. And it’s that, that is the rub.

Daniel Martinovich · Feb 17, 2020

Peter J Barban said:
In the videos, they say that Bethel/Hillsong are promoting the prosperity gospel and other Word of Faith things. Which I agree are not Biblical.

Oh come on. That is such a canard. Tell me what Paul meant by this verse in 2nd Corinthians that is right smack dab in the middle of two chapters about giving offerings. Contextually 100% about money. “ We know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. That though he was rich, he became poor. That we through his poverty might be made rich.”

if you can be honest about that verse. Figure it out. Then you might be capable of judging some churches fairly if they are committing some grand heresy regarding prosperity. In the mean time. Again. “They preach the prosperity Gospel is Just an accusation thrown out to deceive the easily led and gullible. Makes it so the accusers don’t have to prove their case.

Daniel Martinovich · Feb 17, 2020

Johan_1988 said:
Yes ,I believe it's good to stay away from all the new music they make since they have backslidden in recent years. It's a real shame ,some of them used to make very good music. I would stick to some good old ones and leave the rest alone. It's simply result of the charismatic churches whom they belong to that have strayed from good doctrine and compromised to please unbelievers or easy believers that just want cheap grace when the blood of Jesus Christ is very expensive even without price. You find those churches everywhere ,even here in South Africa. Cheap grace, politically correct preaching and a lot of asking for money. It's very sad. Let us just pray for those people and distance ourselves from their nonsense.

Just what do you mean by backsliding? Are they fornicating? Committing adultery? Have they forsaken Christ and turned to sex, drugs and rock and roll?
now I realize there are a few dozen out of hundreds who have. But even Jesus had a bad apple in the bunch. Do you mean, by backsliding. Their fame has given them big heads? Be specific.

Daniel Martinovich · Feb 17, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
I think this is true EXCEPT regarding the gospel. The big different in my opinion between the mentions is that Bethel fully distorts the gospel. Also they intentionally use their music as a tool to further this, by their own admission. Hillsong just seem to be more like confused new hippies than trying to push a false doctrine on the people but that's just an opinion I don't know enough about them to make a definitive statement. Bethel however, is a false church. The documentary American Gospel is epic and addresses this false gospel.

I would suggest you go listen to a few Sunday morning services of theirs before you go falling into the snare of the devil and joining his chorus of falsely accusing the brethren. I think you’ll find Bill Johnson, the head pastor far from perfect but Biblically sound. Careful now. I did not say listen to a couple clips from his detractors that contextualizes those clips into something other than the guys life, mission and general teaching. Listen to the general teaching yourself. Then judge.

spantax · Feb 17, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Personally, I find most modern "Christian" music to be banal, repetitive emotional appeals that do nothing to edify the believer and glorify God. Just saying/singing "Praise the Lord" is NOT praising the Lord.

It's no wonder that many Christian groups are revisiting old hymns. I don't like the real rock stuff and I value what's left of my hearing.

crossnote · Feb 17, 2020

Daniel Martinovich said:
If course we have. But are these folks fornicators, adulterers, idolators? Far from it. In the majority, but obviously not all cases; they walk in a greater degree of grace, holiness, sanctification and the power of God than their accusers do. And it’s that, that is the rub.

Well we could start with the likes of Todd Bentley and the NAR false prophets and apostles. Then we could go to the lying signs and wonders of Bethel and those who blindly follow such.
Maybe the theologians should write and not sing, and the singers should sing and not write lol.

Cis.jd · Feb 17, 2020

Willing-heart said:
I'm not sure where to post it so I'll post here...

There is no doubt about it that churches like Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation church are somewhat dangerously heretic and controversial in some of their teachings, music and beliefs... There seems to be a rise in some pastors sound in doctrine and other believers warning us to stay away and stop listening to music related to these churches because in some ways, we are supporting these churches by funding them when we listen to their music. I've always thought of these to be a minor issue as I only rather focus on glorying God and if the music is glorying and full of truth to the word of God as revealed in the Bible then I have no problem playing or sharing it... I'm just curious to know what some of you think regarding these things. Please share in all honesty in love and truth. God bless.

If it makes you feel spiritually positive, that is all that matters. I personally like old christian songs that don't go over the 90's, but that is just me.

-- although I do have skepticism towards those churches because of how rich they are. We are talking hi-tech parking lots, expensive 5* retreats.. that just screams church-business. You can always just download their stuff.

Maria Billingsley · Feb 17, 2020

Willing-heart said:
I'm not sure where to post it so I'll post here...

There is no doubt about it that churches like Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation church are somewhat dangerously heretic and controversial in some of their teachings, music and beliefs... There seems to be a rise in some pastors sound in doctrine and other believers warning us to stay away and stop listening to music related to these churches because in some ways, we are supporting these churches by funding them when we listen to their music. I've always thought of these to be a minor issue as I only rather focus on glorying God and if the music is glorying and full of truth to the word of God as revealed in the Bible then I have no problem playing or sharing it... I'm just curious to know what some of you think regarding these things. Please share in all honesty in love and truth. God bless.

The danger I see is the " music attraction". Worshiping with songs used include congregation participation. Now it seems it feeds into the flesh through entertainment and idolatry. Not a good path IMO.
Blessings

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Feb 17, 2020

OP here is a non heretical Christian Liturgy for you :

.

spantax · Feb 17, 2020

I like the older Christian songs - although not exclusively.
A lot of modern Christian songs seem to be strung together with no rhyme or rhythm. A lot of the words I would describe as cringeworthy!
For a refreshing change I like to listen to messianic songs.
How about “None like you” sung by Joshua Aaron.
Simple biblical words praising God. No inappropriate words. Nothing introspective. Great!

.

David Kent · Feb 17, 2020

crossnote said:
Sorry, they pay royalties to use the material of these artists. Perhaps 'copyright laws' was a bad choice of words.

Also if you record services that include copyright material, you have to have a separate licence. Our church stopped recording the hymns, and only recorded the sermons because of that.

LightLoveHope · Feb 17, 2020

Willing-heart said:
I'm not sure where to post it so I'll post here...

There is no doubt about it that churches like Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation church are somewhat dangerously heretic and controversial in some of their teachings, music and beliefs... There seems to be a rise in some pastors sound in doctrine and other believers warning us to stay away and stop listening to music related to these churches because in some ways, we are supporting these churches by funding them when we listen to their music. I've always thought of these to be a minor issue as I only rather focus on glorying God and if the music is glorying and full of truth to the word of God as revealed in the Bible then I have no problem playing or sharing it... I'm just curious to know what some of you think regarding these things. Please share in all honesty in love and truth. God bless.

I heard a pastor use the word "open heaven", implying extra blessing was going to come down on us because we used the words, and open heaven would come into being.

But I chose to praise the Lord and know His blessing flowing from my heart and no matter the references to illusory theology and ideas, praising God is our lifes blood, and it is the Holy Spirit alive in us that keeps us on the straight and narrow listening to Jesus.

Some songs written by people in these congregations are blessed and good. And amen to those. Hymns and songs down through church history have often had strange meanings and odd theology, but we still sing the songs because they bring glory to God.

I have found this praise of God, is of more importance than trying to see if those singing it with us are "correct" in their theology. I trust God will let the Holy Spirit minister appropriately to His people, Amen.

Curtis.Hilliker · Feb 17, 2020

I have been a part of Bethel Conferences and have never heard the little Gods doctrine taught like the guy in the video says. There was some spiritual stuff going on that may have been borderline, but I think Bill Johnson publicly repented of that. I think they have wonderful worship music, not sure about the other guys and gals though. Have a good day everyone!!!

David Kent · Feb 17, 2020

I have a friend who came out of a church using Bethel and he said it was pure witchcraft.
When I have been to churches that use modern "worship" songs, it seems to me they are not worship but entertainment. Waving hands around like pictures we see in the museums of Egyptians worshiping Pharaoh.

Willing-heart · Feb 17, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
Just a heads up, neither pastor is Paul Washer, I don't know the name of the Pastor that Todd Friel was interviewing on the wretched show, but he's not Paul Washer, and the Pastor in the second video is David Henneke..

Just thought you may appreciate the heads up.

Haha! Thanks for the correction. The first pastor is Justin Peters

YesMe · Feb 17, 2020

If you let others tell you about God, what they tell you is their own personal interpretation, even when they quote the Bible, seek for yourself... study for yourself... ask questions, seek answers, God is more close to us than we can imagine, so no need to look at other people for answers about Him. In 99% of the cases those who preach, do not live according to their preaching, so why risk and put your faith in man when you can put your faith in God.

GaveMeJoy · Feb 17, 2020

Daniel Martinovich said:
I would suggest you go listen to a few Sunday morning services of theirs before you go falling into the snare of the devil and joining his chorus of falsely accusing the brethren. I think you’ll find Bill Johnson, the head pastor far from perfect but Biblically sound. Careful now. I did not say listen to a couple clips from his detractors that contextualizes those clips into something other than the guys life, mission and general teaching. Listen to the general teaching yourself. Then judge.

Will do.

Daniel Martinovich · Feb 17, 2020

crossnote said:
Well we could start with the likes of Todd Bentley and the NAR false prophets and apostles. Then we could go to the lying signs and wonders of Bethel and those who blindly follow such.
Maybe the theologians should write and not sing, and the singers should sing and not write lol.

Lol, Todd Bentley? What does a novice who fell into the trap of the devil 20 years ago have to do with Bethel or Hillsong? And NAR? Please. So your just calling the entire Pentecostal movement that went from 10,000 people a century ago to almost a billion worldwide of the devil? The Bible’s prophecy says different.

Psalm 66:4"All the earth will worship You, And will sing praises to You; They will sing praises to Your name." Selah.

Written at a time when one nation that was soon to be destroyed leaving only a small remnant. What was in the eyes of the world, one national God among all the the other nations with their Gods. A seemingly impossible prophecy. That one day all the world would be worshiping Jehovah. Yet now we see in every backward country. Every giant shanty town of every city. In every corner of the world. From wealthy industrial nations to the jungles along the equator. From Asian metropolises to Saudi palaces. Jesus is being worshiped. A billion people sing his praises every day. Hundreds of millions of them sing Songs to Christ written by Hillsong everyday.

And I say Hillsong, Bethel and the like are just forerunners of many to come and billions more worshiping the Lord.

Alas. I imagine you are waiting around for Jesus to come and destroy the world though.

crossnote · Feb 17, 2020

Daniel Martinovich said:
Lol, Todd Bentley? What does a novice who fell into the trap of the devil 20 years ago have to do with Bethel or Hillsong? And NAR? Please. So your just calling the entire Pentecostal movement that went from 10,000 people a century ago to almost a billion worldwide of the devil? The Bible’s prophecy says different.

Bill Johnson of Bethel is a part of Nar and a heretic supreme.

The world sings many lyrics of Hillsong out of ignorance of God's Word. Revival? LOL...

2 Timothy 4:1-4 (KJV) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
(This is 'Christian Advice' area and debating is not allowed so I am going to cease on this course.)

Should we stop listening to the likes of Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation music?

:sighing:

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