Why do people not believe in Eternal Security?

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I hate to open yet another topic and debate on this but I am confused as to why people do not believe in Eternal Security which is a teaching that comes from the Bible throughout the bible. Or the fact that once we are saved, we are saved forever. They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God that God will reward them for or else God will take the Holy Spirit away from them. Or they just plain don't want to believe that once they come to Christ, God makes sure that they are saved forever, are kept in the faith forever, and that they will have many WONDERFUL rewards that nobody can even imagine in this world. Yes, a true Christian will work but not to maintain his salvation but, to be rewarded by God because they are already saved and because they love God. I am curious as to possibly how a person can lose the Holy Spirit once they have it and what scripture they get that belief from. Because in NO piece of scripture does it say that we will EVER lose the Holy Spirit! In fact, it says the exact opposite (See Ephesians 1:13-14, John 14:16-17, 1 Peter 1:4-5, 1 John 5:4 & more). So, how is it possible did the apostles and Christ lied when they said that a person CANNOT lose the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit guides each and every one of our lives individually and that we are all SEALED by him. Now, and forever.

But, for those of you who do not believe in Eternal Security how can you explain the following verses that clearly say that once a person has been saved by God, they are saved from now through eternity?


Psalm 34:22
Psalm 125:1
John 3:16
John 5:24
John 6:37-40
John 10:9
John 10:27-30
Romans 11:29
Ephesians 1:13-14
Ephesians 2:8-9
Philipians 3:20-21
1 John 5:10-13
1 John 5:4
2 Corinthians 1:22
Jude 1:24-25
1 Peter 1:1-10
Revelation 3:4-5




I mean, I could have made this longer and given more scripture and made this thread go on for an eternity. But, I didn't want it to be a complete essay thread. I just wanted to state the main major scriptures that support what I have to say. It says throughout the Bible that the Children of Abraham shall never perish (We also became sons of Abraham when we believed according to Paul's statement in Galatians 3:7 & Romans 4:16-17) A saved person's eternal security was not one small statement of Jesus or of an apostle. It's splattered throughout the Old and New Testament, across many Kings and prophets ...etc.

So, I don't get the rejection of a basic piece of scripture. When you were saved, you were saved no matter what you did with your life. You will have no rewards, but you are still saved (1 Corinthians 1:10-15). Salvation is a once for all (Hebrews 10:10). Once God saved you, he placed you into his kingdom FOREVER. End of story. But, I am curious as to how people have come to these conclusions which are essentially calling not only the writers of the Bible liars, but Christ himself a liar. Don't y'all believe that Christ is God and that God cannot lie? I mean... come on...
 

HTacianas

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I hate to open yet another topic and debate on this but I am confused as to why people do not believe in Eternal Security which is a teaching that comes from the Bible throughout the bible. Or the fact that once we are saved, we are saved forever. They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God that God will reward them for or else God will take the Holy Spirit away from them. Or they just plain don't want to believe that once they come to Christ, God makes sure that they are saved forever, are kept in the faith forever, and that they will have many WONDERFUL rewards that nobody can even imagine in this world. Yes, a true Christian will work but not to maintain his salvation but, to be rewarded by God because they are already saved and because they love God. I am curious as to possibly how a person can lose the Holy Spirit once they have it and what scripture they get that belief from. Because in NO piece of scripture does it say that we will EVER lose the Holy Spirit! In fact, it says the exact opposite (See Ephesians 1:13-14, John 14:16-17, 1 Peter 1:4-5, 1 John 5:4 & more). So, how is it possible did the apostles and Christ lied when they said that a person CANNOT lose the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit guides each and every one of our lives individually and that we are all SEALED by him. Now, and forever.

But, for those of you who do not believe in Eternal Security how can you explain the following verses that clearly say that once a person has been saved by God, they are saved from now through eternity?


Psalm 34:22
Psalm 125:1
John 3:16
John 5:24
John 6:37-40
John 10:9
John 10:27-30
Romans 11:29
Ephesians 1:13-14
Ephesians 2:8-9
Philipians 3:20-21
1 John 5:10-13
1 John 5:4
2 Corinthians 1:22
Jude 1:24-25
1 Peter 1:1-10
Revelation 3:4-5




I mean, I could have made this longer and given more scripture and made this thread go on for an eternity. But, I didn't want it to be a complete essay thread. I just wanted to state the main major scriptures that support what I have to say. It says throughout the Bible that the Children of Abraham shall never perish (We also became sons of Abraham when we believed according to Paul's statement in Galatians 3:7 & Romans 4:16-17) A saved person's eternal security was not one small statement of Jesus or of an apostle. It's splattered throughout the Old and New Testament, across many Kings and prophets ...etc.

So, I don't get the rejection of a basic piece of scripture. When you were saved, you were saved no matter what you did with your life. You will have no rewards, but you are still saved (1 Corinthians 1:10-15). Salvation is a once for all (Hebrews 10:10). Once God saved you, he placed you into his kingdom FOREVER. End of story. But, I am curious as to how people have come to these conclusions which are essentially calling not only the writers of the Bible liars, but Christ himself a liar. Don't y'all believe that Christ is God and that God cannot lie? I mean... come on...

There is nothing in the new testament to suggest that a person is "eternally secure". Anywhere. Even the apostle Paul knew that he could fall away through sin:

1Co 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

The writer to the Romans explained that once a person enters into salvation there are two paths he can follow:

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Paul said to the Ephesians what our obligation is after we enter into salvation:

Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Jesus himself told the fate of those who do not do those works:

Mat 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:42 ‘for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;

Mat 25:43 ‘I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

Mat 25:44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

Mat 25:45 “Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

Mat 25:46 “And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

James summed it up:

Jas 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

Read Matthew 25 above and see how Jesus answered that question.
 
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d taylor

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I hate to open yet another topic and debate on this but I am confused as to why people do not believe in Eternal Security which is a teaching that comes from the Bible throughout the bible. Or the fact that once we are saved, we are saved forever. They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God that God will reward them for or else God will take the Holy Spirit away from them. Or they just plain don't want to believe that once they come to Christ, God makes sure that they are saved forever, are kept in the faith forever, and that they will have many WONDERFUL rewards that nobody can even imagine in this world. Yes, a true Christian will work but not to maintain his salvation but, to be rewarded by God because they are already saved and because they love God. I am curious as to possibly how a person can lose the Holy Spirit once they have it and what scripture they get that belief from. Because in NO piece of scripture does it say that we will EVER lose the Holy Spirit! In fact, it says the exact opposite (See Ephesians 1:13-14, John 14:16-17, 1 Peter 1:4-5, 1 John 5:4 & more). So, how is it possible did the apostles and Christ lied when they said that a person CANNOT lose the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit guides each and every one of our lives individually and that we are all SEALED by him. Now, and forever.

But, for those of you who do not believe in Eternal Security how can you explain the following verses that clearly say that once a person has been saved by God, they are saved from now through eternity?


Psalm 34:22
Psalm 125:1
John 3:16
John 5:24
John 6:37-40
John 10:9
John 10:27-30
Romans 11:29
Ephesians 1:13-14
Ephesians 2:8-9
Philipians 3:20-21
1 John 5:10-13
1 John 5:4
2 Corinthians 1:22
Jude 1:24-25
1 Peter 1:1-10
Revelation 3:4-5




I mean, I could have made this longer and given more scripture and made this thread go on for an eternity. But, I didn't want it to be a complete essay thread. I just wanted to state the main major scriptures that support what I have to say. It says throughout the Bible that the Children of Abraham shall never perish (We also became sons of Abraham when we believed according to Paul's statement in Galatians 3:7 & Romans 4:16-17) A saved person's eternal security was not one small statement of Jesus or of an apostle. It's splattered throughout the Old and New Testament, across many Kings and prophets ...etc.

So, I don't get the rejection of a basic piece of scripture. When you were saved, you were saved no matter what you did with your life. You will have no rewards, but you are still saved (1 Corinthians 1:10-15). Salvation is a once for all (Hebrews 10:10). Once God saved you, he placed you into his kingdom FOREVER. End of story. But, I am curious as to how people have come to these conclusions which are essentially calling not only the writers of the Bible liars, but Christ himself a liar. Don't y'all believe that Christ is God and that God cannot lie? I mean... come on...

You basically answer your own question when you wrote: They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God.

A person who believes they can lose their free gift, Eternal Life. Is not accepting this free gift, they are trying to acquire, this free gift by action,works, etc...

And no amount of verses posted will make your point they do not see that the Bible is really written to believers. Only one book of the Bible (Gospel of John) is stated as being written specifically to tell people how to have life (eternal life)
 
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MDC

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I hate to open yet another topic and debate on this but I am confused as to why people do not believe in Eternal Security which is a teaching that comes from the Bible throughout the bible. Or the fact that once we are saved, we are saved forever. They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God that God will reward them for or else God will take the Holy Spirit away from them. Or they just plain don't want to believe that once they come to Christ, God makes sure that they are saved forever, are kept in the faith forever, and that they will have many WONDERFUL rewards that nobody can even imagine in this world. Yes, a true Christian will work but not to maintain his salvation but, to be rewarded by God because they are already saved and because they love God. I am curious as to possibly how a person can lose the Holy Spirit once they have it and what scripture they get that belief from. Because in NO piece of scripture does it say that we will EVER lose the Holy Spirit! In fact, it says the exact opposite (See Ephesians 1:13-14, John 14:16-17, 1 Peter 1:4-5, 1 John 5:4 & more). So, how is it possible did the apostles and Christ lied when they said that a person CANNOT lose the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit guides each and every one of our lives individually and that we are all SEALED by him. Now, and forever.

But, for those of you who do not believe in Eternal Security how can you explain the following verses that clearly say that once a person has been saved by God, they are saved from now through eternity?


Psalm 34:22
Psalm 125:1
John 3:16
John 5:24
John 6:37-40
John 10:9
John 10:27-30
Romans 11:29
Ephesians 1:13-14
Ephesians 2:8-9
Philipians 3:20-21
1 John 5:10-13
1 John 5:4
2 Corinthians 1:22
Jude 1:24-25
1 Peter 1:1-10
Revelation 3:4-5




I mean, I could have made this longer and given more scripture and made this thread go on for an eternity. But, I didn't want it to be a complete essay thread. I just wanted to state the main major scriptures that support what I have to say. It says throughout the Bible that the Children of Abraham shall never perish (We also became sons of Abraham when we believed according to Paul's statement in Galatians 3:7 & Romans 4:16-17) A saved person's eternal security was not one small statement of Jesus or of an apostle. It's splattered throughout the Old and New Testament, across many Kings and prophets ...etc.

So, I don't get the rejection of a basic piece of scripture. When you were saved, you were saved no matter what you did with your life. You will have no rewards, but you are still saved (1 Corinthians 1:10-15). Salvation is a once for all (Hebrews 10:10). Once God saved you, he placed you into his kingdom FOREVER. End of story. But, I am curious as to how people have come to these conclusions which are essentially calling not only the writers of the Bible liars, but Christ himself a liar. Don't y'all believe that Christ is God and that God cannot lie? I mean... come on...
Eternal life is not secure to those who do not believe Christ alone is sufficient to save from sin. Christ has merited salvation for them that believe.
 
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Peter John

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When you were saved, you were saved no matter what you did with your life. You will have no rewards, but you are still saved

This concerns me, when you use past tense, 'were saved'. Saved comes from Greek sozo- meaning to deliver someone from point A to B, & have god's protection, throughout a lifetime of being saved. I'm wondering whether you made the same mistake as I did 25yrs ago, when I thought I got saved from saying a sinners prayer, which is the false gospel. 2Cor11v4 We don't choose God, He chooses us, Jn15v16, by His unmerited favour (Grace). No-one can 100% say they are God's elect, all I do is pray that 'if it be Your will that I am elect, help me to die daily to self, & live by Your Holy Spirit.
 
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HTacianas

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Eternal life is not secure to those who do not believe Christ alone is sufficient to save from sin. Christ has merited salvation for them that believe.

When you say "sufficient to save from sin" what do you mean?
 
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bling

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They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God that God will reward them for or else God will take the Holy Spirit away from them. Because in NO piece of scripture does it say that we will EVER lose the Holy Spirit! In fact, it says the exact opposite (See Ephesians 1:13-14, John 14:16-17, 1 Peter 1:4-5, 1 John 5:4 & more). .
First off: you are starting with a strawman argument by saying: “They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God that God will reward…” that is not the situation at all.

We cannot “do” stuff to be rewarded: Luke 17: 7 “Suppose one of you has a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Will he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? 8 Won’t he rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? 9 Will he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? 10 So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”

If you did everything perfectly after becoming a Christian you just did the minimum.

All our actions must be the result of our gratitude Love and never to get anything.

Salvation has several meanings: To the Jews of the Old testament times and many Jews during Christ’s time on earth, salvation meant the Jewish nation being rescued from the earthly enemies (all the Gentiles). Salvation can also mean rescued from the sinful life to enter the kingdom of God, where you are showed with tons of gifts. A third type of salvation is referring to eternal life in heaven and is referred to as our inherriadence to come after death or with Christ coming. Examples of the description of salvation is found in:

Ro. 13: 11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.

Hebrews 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

1 Peter 1:5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time

Part of the meaning to the concept of being given a gift is the fact that the ownership of the gift actually transfers to the receiver of the gift and as such the receiver of the gift can do what he/she wants to do with the gift.



The Hebrew writer in Heb. 12:16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.

Esau owned the “gift” of the firstborn inheritance rights, which could not be taken from him by anyone, nor could someone steal it from his hand, not even his father could take them back, but Esau could sell it or give it away.


The Hebrew writer is telling us not to give away or sell our birth right (as born again Christians) which is our inheritance of eternal life.



We own a paid-up tax-free deed to a home in heaven, so that home was gifted to us, but the Hebrew writer is saying we could sell (or give it away) like Esau did.



Again we are not doing or allowing the Holy Spirit to do good stuff through us to get anything (God has given us everything up front with the exception of dwelling in heaven right now), but we do have an undeserved birthright to heaven which cannot be lost like your keys, stolen from you, earned, paid back and even God will not take it from you, but you can of your own free will which you still have: given it away (satan wants it).

Gal. 6: 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Paul explains plainly that eternal life is the harvest in the future we do not want to “give up”, but that also teaches we can give it up.

Our doing good stuff while here on earth (or better: our allowing God to work through us doing good stuff) is not to “earn”, “payback” or to allow us to “hold on to our salvation”. We want to continue to utilize Godly type Love and not get caught up in carnal type love, so the huge Love Feast of Heaven (unselfish type Love only) still has value to us and not something we would sell on the cheap.

We do not lose our free will by becoming a Christian, so we can quench the Spirit and go about doing what we want. God is not going to force us to go to heaven if we do not want to be there.

Your verses:

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Again, it is talking about our inheritance (future gift) and the Spirit being given as a guarantee now to know we have an inheritance, but we know we can quench the Spirit and give up an inheritance like Esau did.



John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

The Spirit being given as a guarantee now to know we have an inheritance, but we know we can quench the Spirit and give up an inheritance like Esau did.





1 Peter 1: 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

The Spirit being given as a guarantee now to know we have an inheritance, but we know we can quench the Spirit and give up an inheritance like Esau did.




1 John 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

If you quit trusting in Christ then you give up.

I mean, I could have made this longer and given more scripture and made this thread go on for an eternity. When you were saved, you were saved no matter what you did with your life. You will have no rewards, but you are still saved
Are you saying some people get greater “gifts” in heaven than others? How?

There is just as long of a list of scripture warning Christians about leaving the church, so how do you get around these?

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.



MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.



HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end



HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.



COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23

[12], Giving thanks to the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

[13], Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

[14], In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.....

[23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister



ROMANS 6:22 [22], But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.



REVELATION 2:26 [26], And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations



2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3 [1], Now we beseech you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, [2], That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3], Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition



1 PETER 4:18 [18], And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?



According to God's WORD salvation is for those who "continue in the faith" (Colossians 1:23). Those who do not "give place to the devil" (Ephesians 4:27), will not grieve the Spirit by believing the lie that they may not cease to endure to the end. "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" (4:30). Not only is it necessary for the Saints to endure or persevere to the end; but at the same time, both the Father and the Son have promised to preserve those who "continue in the faith". "28 And I give unto them Eternal Life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand. 29 My Father, which gave them Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand" (John 10:28-29). This relationship where the Saints Endure While God Preserves was best expressed by the LORD Jesus: "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work" (John 5:17).



HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.



HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:

[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.



MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.



MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.



HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end



HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.



MATTHEW 13:18-23 [18], Hear you therefore the parable of the sower.

[19], When any one hears the word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then comes the wicked one, and catches away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. [20], But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and immediately with joy receives it; [21], Yet has he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution rises because of the word, by and by he is offended. [22], He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.[23], But he that received seed into the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundred times, some sixty, some thirty.



REVELATION 2:26 And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations:



REVELATION 3:5

He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.



REVELATION 3:12 Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write on him my new name.



REVELATION 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.



REVELATION 21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.



1john 1:9 [9] IF we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness



PROVERBS 28:13 He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.



HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.



HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.



MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.



MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.



HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end



HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.



COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23

[12], Giving thanks to the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

[13], Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

[14], In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.....

[23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister



ROMANS 6:22 [22], But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.



REVELATION 2:26 [26], And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations



2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3 [1], Now we beseech you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, [2], That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3], Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition



1 PETER 4:18 [18], And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?



REVELATION 2:26 And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations:



REVELATION 3:5

He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.



REVELATION 3:12 Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write on him my new name.



REVELATION 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.



REVELATION 21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God that God will reward them for or else God will take the Holy Spirit away from them.
I am not in the OSAS camp and the comment above does not reflect the reason why. As a matter of fact, anyone who follows this line of thinking, does not walk in the Holy Spirit. The fruit of the Spirit is the only way Christians can see the work of the Holy Spirit in their life. Take that away, which you have done, there is no Spirit filled Christian nor the santification process that slowly helps us achieve Christ like behavior.
Blessings
 
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eleos1954

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I hate to open yet another topic and debate on this but I am confused as to why people do not believe in Eternal Security which is a teaching that comes from the Bible throughout the bible. Or the fact that once we are saved, we are saved forever. They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God that God will reward them for or else God will take the Holy Spirit away from them. Or they just plain don't want to believe that once they come to Christ, God makes sure that they are saved forever, are kept in the faith forever, and that they will have many WONDERFUL rewards that nobody can even imagine in this world. Yes, a true Christian will work but not to maintain his salvation but, to be rewarded by God because they are already saved and because they love God. I am curious as to possibly how a person can lose the Holy Spirit once they have it and what scripture they get that belief from. Because in NO piece of scripture does it say that we will EVER lose the Holy Spirit! In fact, it says the exact opposite (See Ephesians 1:13-14, John 14:16-17, 1 Peter 1:4-5, 1 John 5:4 & more). So, how is it possible did the apostles and Christ lied when they said that a person CANNOT lose the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit guides each and every one of our lives individually and that we are all SEALED by him. Now, and forever.

But, for those of you who do not believe in Eternal Security how can you explain the following verses that clearly say that once a person has been saved by God, they are saved from now through eternity?


Psalm 34:22
Psalm 125:1
John 3:16
John 5:24
John 6:37-40
John 10:9
John 10:27-30
Romans 11:29
Ephesians 1:13-14
Ephesians 2:8-9
Philipians 3:20-21
1 John 5:10-13
1 John 5:4
2 Corinthians 1:22
Jude 1:24-25
1 Peter 1:1-10
Revelation 3:4-5




I mean, I could have made this longer and given more scripture and made this thread go on for an eternity. But, I didn't want it to be a complete essay thread. I just wanted to state the main major scriptures that support what I have to say. It says throughout the Bible that the Children of Abraham shall never perish (We also became sons of Abraham when we believed according to Paul's statement in Galatians 3:7 & Romans 4:16-17) A saved person's eternal security was not one small statement of Jesus or of an apostle. It's splattered throughout the Old and New Testament, across many Kings and prophets ...etc.

So, I don't get the rejection of a basic piece of scripture. When you were saved, you were saved no matter what you did with your life. You will have no rewards, but you are still saved (1 Corinthians 1:10-15). Salvation is a once for all (Hebrews 10:10). Once God saved you, he placed you into his kingdom FOREVER. End of story. But, I am curious as to how people have come to these conclusions which are essentially calling not only the writers of the Bible liars, but Christ himself a liar. Don't y'all believe that Christ is God and that God cannot lie? I mean... come on...

As long as we are alive on earth, our choice(s) (will) is in tact and God does not violate our will. Can one have and then reject the Holy Spirit? Yes and that would be blasphemy the only unforgivable sin.

If we abide in Him, God will never let go of us, but we are always free to let go of Him, to stop abiding whenever we please.
 
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Phil W

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I hate to open yet another topic and debate on this but I am confused as to why people do not believe in Eternal Security which is a teaching that comes from the Bible throughout the bible. Or the fact that once we are saved, we are saved forever. They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God that God will reward them for or else God will take the Holy Spirit away from them. Or they just plain don't want to believe that once they come to Christ, God makes sure that they are saved forever, are kept in the faith forever, and that they will have many WONDERFUL rewards that nobody can even imagine in this world. Yes, a true Christian will work but not to maintain his salvation but, to be rewarded by God because they are already saved and because they love God. I am curious as to possibly how a person can lose the Holy Spirit once they have it and what scripture they get that belief from. Because in NO piece of scripture does it say that we will EVER lose the Holy Spirit! In fact, it says the exact opposite (See Ephesians 1:13-14, John 14:16-17, 1 Peter 1:4-5, 1 John 5:4 & more). So, how is it possible did the apostles and Christ lied when they said that a person CANNOT lose the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit guides each and every one of our lives individually and that we are all SEALED by him. Now, and forever.

But, for those of you who do not believe in Eternal Security how can you explain the following verses that clearly say that once a person has been saved by God, they are saved from now through eternity?


Psalm 34:22
Psalm 125:1
John 3:16
John 5:24
John 6:37-40
John 10:9
John 10:27-30
Romans 11:29
Ephesians 1:13-14
Ephesians 2:8-9
Philipians 3:20-21
1 John 5:10-13
1 John 5:4
2 Corinthians 1:22
Jude 1:24-25
1 Peter 1:1-10
Revelation 3:4-5




I mean, I could have made this longer and given more scripture and made this thread go on for an eternity. But, I didn't want it to be a complete essay thread. I just wanted to state the main major scriptures that support what I have to say. It says throughout the Bible that the Children of Abraham shall never perish (We also became sons of Abraham when we believed according to Paul's statement in Galatians 3:7 & Romans 4:16-17) A saved person's eternal security was not one small statement of Jesus or of an apostle. It's splattered throughout the Old and New Testament, across many Kings and prophets ...etc.

So, I don't get the rejection of a basic piece of scripture. When you were saved, you were saved no matter what you did with your life. You will have no rewards, but you are still saved (1 Corinthians 1:10-15). Salvation is a once for all (Hebrews 10:10). Once God saved you, he placed you into his kingdom FOREVER. End of story. But, I am curious as to how people have come to these conclusions which are essentially calling not only the writers of the Bible liars, but Christ himself a liar. Don't y'all believe that Christ is God and that God cannot lie? I mean... come on...
I don't believe in OSAS because I know that despite being a Christian I will be judged on the last day; and if my name is not in the book of life I will be damned.
I believe Jesus' words in Matt 7:22-23..."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
If OSAS was real, nobody would be turned away FOR THEIR SINS.
 
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...Or the fact that once we are saved, we are saved forever. They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God that God will reward them for or else God will take the Holy Spirit away from them. ...

I think the small difference is in that, God or anyone else is not going to take it away, but person can himself renounce it. There is no reason to fear that God or someone else would take it. Eternal life is for righteous, but if person gives up that and is no more loyal to God, then he has renounced the promise.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

But the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:38
 
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BobRyan

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I hate to open yet another topic and debate on this but I am confused as to why people do not believe in Eternal Security which is a teaching that comes from the Bible throughout the bible. Or the fact that once we are saved, we are saved forever. They think that they have to do all of these wonderful works for God that God will reward them for or else God will take the Holy Spirit away from them. Or they just plain don't want to believe that once they come to Christ, God makes sure that they are saved forever, are kept in the faith forever

I think you have stated the OSAS position well and in so doing -- reveal why it is that the Bible does not support it.

Matthew 18 - forgiveness revoked... "I forgave you all that debt" and the result is that the forgiveness is revoked and the unforgiving servant must "repay all" the full debt.

Romans 11 to "you who stand only by your faith" -- the true and faithful saints..
"21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again"

1 Cor 9 -- I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after I have preached the gospel to others - I myself should be disqualified from it

1 Cor 6 "Do not be deceived"
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified
 
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