The hypocrisy of being "pro-life"

ChristianForCats said:

Jesus talked about being nice and not condescending. Something about lifting each other up. He also said the second commandment is, "Love your neighbor as yourself." Then there is the judgment warning: "Do not judge others, for you will be judged." Clearly Jesus would not tell women they are murderers if any of them had an abortion. Nor would he tell a pregnant woman just to put up with her pain and say since she had unprotected sex, her mental and physical suffering are deserved and must go on for nine months.

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The child in the womb is not a neighbor to be loved and not killed?

ChristianForCats said:

I did not deny it is murder. That would be stupid.

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Why do you think murder is OK?

ChristianForCats said:

Jesus talked about being nice and not condescending.

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I think you should read the words of Jesus in the four gospels.

ChristianForCats said:

In this country, abortion is not murder.

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You, in your post just above, called it murder. Do you wish to retract that statement now?

ChristianForCats said: ↑
I did not deny it is murder. That would be stupid.

ChristianForCats said:

A fetus is not a neighbor to anyone. Where do you see them identified as such in the Gospels?

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The fetus is a human fetus. Meaning a human being.

Perhaps we should go back and ask once again. Do you see the human being in the womb of equal moral worth to the woman carrying the child.

If not why?

ChristianForCats said:

The fetus has equal moral worth to the mom if she wants a baby.

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So the pregnant woman decides the moral worth of other human beings?

Silmarien said:

I'm not associated with the pro-life movement, because I think that the use of state force makes abortion more common, since it exacerbates rather than mitigates the huge social issues underlying the problem. I do believe that modern pro-choice rhetoric amounts to the normalization of violence, but there's an ideological war going on here that I don't really think can be waged effectively in the courts.

The contraception issue strikes me as a false flag, though. I had a friend in college who had an abortion while on birth control, apparently because an antibiotic had interfered with it. I don't have moral issues with contraception, but citing it as an alternative to abortion just reinforces the idea that the only moral responsibility anyone has is to take reasonable steps to prevent conception, which I think is one of the underlying problems here in the first place.

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Hi, Firstly I disagree with your point that the state should not get involved ,but think the state should be involved since it involves a human life that should be protected, but I do agree with you concern on the underlying social issues that cause unplanned pregnancies. Many people just have sex without even talking to each other about it. I blame especially the Entertainment industry for promoting this kind of behavior. I has damaged generations of people even here in South Africa to what normal sexual behavior should be. The old school way of doing things is right. Wait till you are married to have sex, very hard ,but worth it.Many of those people remain married until they die. Divorce on demand is another problem. The institution of marriage is not respected as it used to be. Another victim of so called pop culture.

ChristianForCats said:

In this country, abortion is not murder. You don't have to like it, but that is a fact.

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In the court... The supreme court of the US... it is not murder... Isn't that the same court where OJ was innocent?

ChristianForCats said:

FYI I am a very literal thinker, reader, and writer. God made me that way.

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Incorrect. You were someone's choice. It could have gone either way according your logic.

ChristianForCats said:

The fetus has equal moral worth to the mom if she wants a baby.

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Why is one person's moral worth dependent upon the OPINION of someone else? Again, this is a big person deciding a small person's moral worth, a powerful person deciding the moral worth of a powerless person. It's as if I could decide your moral worth. You would object to that, rightly, saying that you have inherent moral worth totally independent of my opinion. If that is the case then all humans have inherent moral worth totally independent of your opinion of them. If you have an inherent moral worth you have an inalienable right to the benefits of that inherent moral worth. If someone takes those away from you, you have been wronged. If you decide you don't want your baby, and thus she has no moral worth, and then you kill her, you have wronged her. Wronged her because she has moral worth to God, the only one with an opinion on this that actually matters, who loves her and has given her moral worth.

ChristianForCats said:

A fetus is not a neighbor to anyone. Where do you see them identified as such in the Gospels?

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In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a town in Judah, 40 and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, 42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (Lk 1:39–45). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.

25 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”
29 But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” 30 Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. 31 Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. 32 So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. 34 He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ 36 Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?” 37 He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” And Jesus said to him, “You go, and do likewise.”


The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (Lk 10:25–37). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.

It seems like the Lord is pretty clear on who is a neighbor. And clumps of cells don't leap for joy or have faith either.

Johan_1988 said:

Hi, Firstly I disagree with your point that the state should not get involved ,but think the state should be involved since it involves a human life that should be protected, but I do agree with you concern on the underlying social issues that cause unplanned pregnancies. Many people just have sex without even talking to each other about it. I blame especially the Entertainment industry for promoting this kind of behavior. I has damaged generations of people even here in South Africa to what normal sexual behavior should be. The old school way of doing things is right. Wait till you are married to have sex, very hard ,but worth it.Many of those people remain married until they die. Divorce on demand is another problem. The institution of marriage is not respected as it used to be. Another victim of so called pop culture.

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I think the modern attitude towards sex is a problem, but I don't think it's the only problem, since marriage doesn't automatically cancel out any of the underlying concerns here: you can be married and still have severe relationship issues that leads to a woman not wanting the child. Poverty is still a serious issue, not just because families can feel like they have no option but abortion for economic reasons, but because it can lead to abuse.

To a certain extent, I think too strong a focus on the institution of marriage is part of the problem, since we're really just reinforcing the idea that if your relationship falls apart, you don't have anywhere else to turn. The reality is that there are people in unstable situations, some of which are avoidable, but others of which are not. If your solution is to tell people to get in stable situations, you're just going to be perpetuating the difficulties that single, abandoned, or abused women face in the first place.

Hazelelponi said:

Sickening isn't it?

More than 60 million children brutally murdered in this country directly as a result of Roe v. Wade, most of which were sacrificed to the god of money...

It's sick. Just plain sick. Children are a blessing from God and people are slaughtering them wholesale.. never before in history has such a travesty occured. Never before.

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Hello Hazel. I agree. And what's worse, abortion is really just legalised genocide on certain groups. For example, people with Down's Syndrome. In some countries the abortion rate for people with Down's Syndrome is running at 100%

Down Syndrome and Abortion the facts

Very scary times we're living in. God Bless