The hypocrisy of being "pro-life"

GodLovesCats · Feb 16, 2020

chevyontheriver said:
That's sick.

You asked me.

Of course the way you described it would be much worse.

chevyontheriver · Feb 16, 2020

ChristianForCats said:
You asked me.

Of course the way you described it would be much worse.

Get it straight who asked you what please.

It's still sick.

GodLovesCats · Feb 16, 2020

chevyontheriver said:
Get it straight who asked you what please.

It's still sick.

If someone asks me the best way to do something, it can't mean anything else, so I answered it right.

If a poster meant something totally different, it would have been a totally different question.

OK, so it was Jack.

GodLovesCats · Feb 16, 2020

redleghunter said:
And what of the “lasting changes” to the human being the woman carries?

Is the child in the womb a lesser moral life?

Is the mother carrying the fetus ever a lesser moral life? Of course not! She did nothing to deserve the damage caused directly by being pregnant. She is more important than the unwanted human growing inside her all nine months. If she is disrespected during that time, she is being treated like a second-class citizen. That is never moral.

GodLovesCats · Feb 16, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
Honestly, I don't think the "changes" to a woman's body really count. I mean, women are designed to bear children and the small changes pregnancy makes to the body happens at any point a woman bears children, so unless you make your living off having slightly smaller hips and a body devoid of stretch marks then bodily changes are truly insignificant because those changes will happen at some point in a woman's life, if they haven't happened already.

Honestly I thought this is what a man would say. You have to get pregnant to fully understand pregnancy unless you happen to be an obstetrician.
[QUOTE[Most women can work up until birth with a first child and only really need about two weeks to heal afterwards. But even if we cushion this and say a month prior to birth and a month after, that's two months that will be truly difficult, and most adoption agencies do help provide care for the pregnant mother which can allow for this time as well.[/QUOTE]

There is a difference between being able to work and having no job restrictions. Some women have to do their jobs differently while pregnant. Of course I do not accept that as an excuse to have an abortion, but depending on her job it does mean she has more to worry about than normal body changes.

Two weeks to heal is one thing, but what about the time she needs to take care of her newborn? There is a reason big employers give new moms 6 weeks of maternity leave. They need more than that and many women do take more time off.

I think the most drastic change for any woman to deal with during pregnancy are the hormonal changes, and to be frank even without pregnancy the mental health issues that surround any rape are tremendous, and require a great deal of counseling. So we will assume the woman is already getting counseling in some form, which will also help her cope with the physical hormonal changes as well

Women do not get mental health counseling automatically just because they got pregnant. They pay for it if their health insurance does not cover appointments. She is on her own with that.

Hormonal changes might be the biggest physical one, but a lot of mental stress happens too. One normal problem after birth is postpartum depression.

Hazelelponi · Feb 16, 2020

lismore · Feb 16, 2020

This warped culture seems to care more for animal life than human life. Give the embryos fur, that will save them.

Hazelelponi · Feb 16, 2020

lismore said:
This warped culture seems to care more for animal life than human life. Give the embryos fur, that will save them.

Sickening isn't it?

More than 60 million children brutally murdered in this country directly as a result of Roe v. Wade, most of which were sacrificed to the god of money...

It's sick. Just plain sick. Children are a blessing from God and people are slaughtering them wholesale.. never before in history has such a travesty occured. Never before.

redleghunter · Feb 16, 2020

ChristianForCats said:
Is the mother carrying the fetus ever a lesser moral life? Of course not! She did nothing to deserve the damage caused directly by being pregnant. She is more important than the unwanted human growing inside her all nine months. If she is disrespected during that time, she is being treated like a second-class citizen. That is never moral.

That’s right both lives are of equal moral worth. Which means not murdering the child in the womb.

JacksBratt · Feb 16, 2020

ChristianForCats said:
Simple: take a pill. The fetus will then come out vaginally with no injuries.

Is that better?

So, you are still killing the baby.. just with a pill? OK.. the baby is not ripped and cut apart and does not have it's skull crushed.. It's less painful and traumatic.. but.. still murder.

GodLovesCats · Feb 16, 2020

redleghunter said:
That’s right. Both lives are of equal moral worth. Which means not murdering the child in the womb.

Equal worth means never disrespecting the mom, treating her like she is less worthy than a human being that should not exist. It is never moral to force her to suffer in any way unless Jesus would do it.

The mom never loses her moral worth just because she conceived an unwanted baby. If you only say just because the baby has moral worth it should not be killed, you are saying she has no moral worth at all as long as she is pregnant. There is no way around that. If you truly believe the mom has moral worth - and all Christians are obligated to do so in the Bible - then you do not want to force her to carry a life she had tried to avoid conceiving against her will when she is suffering mentally and physically as a result.

GodLovesCats · Feb 16, 2020

JacksBratt said:
So, you are still killing the baby, just with a pill? OK, the baby is not ripped and cut apart and does not have its skull crushed. It's less painful and traumatic, but still murder.

I did not deny it is murder. That would be stupid.

redleghunter · Feb 16, 2020

ChristianForCats said:
Equal worth means never disrespecting the mom, treating her like she is less worthy than a human being that should not exist. It is never moral to force her to suffer in any way unless Jesus would do it.

The mom never loses her moral worth just because she conceived an unwanted baby. If you only say just because the baby has moral worth it should not be killed, you are saying she has no moral worth at all as long as she is pregnant. There is no way around that. If you truly believe the mom has moral worth - and all Christians are obligated to do so in the Bible - then you do not want to force her to carry a life she had tried to avoid conceiving against her will when she is suffering mentally and physically as a result.

Equal moral worth means both the pregnant woman and child in the womb.

Don’t understand how diatribe posted back to me addresses the sanctity of life of both the pregnant woman and child in the womb.

Hazelelponi · Feb 16, 2020

ChristianForCats said:
Equal worth means never disrespecting the mom, treating her like she is less worthy than a human being that should not exist. It is never moral to force her to suffer in any way unless Jesus would do it.

The mom never loses her moral worth just because she conceived an unwanted baby. If you only say just because the baby has moral worth it should not be killed, you are saying she has no moral worth at all as long as she is pregnant. There is no way around that. If you truly believe the mom has moral worth - and all Christians are obligated to do so in the Bible - then you do not want to force her to carry a life she had tried to avoid conceiving against her will when she is suffering mentally and physically as a result.

"When a woman is giving birth, she has sorrow because her hour has come, but when she has delivered the baby, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world." - John 16:21

^^^ the above is especially true, I've given birth and it's a joyous thing! Not some kind of imposition..

All humans are made in God’s image and were created to have fellowship with Him Genesis 1:26; Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:10-11

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The shedding of innocent blood is hence strictly forbidden Genesis 9:6; Exodus 23:7; Proverbs 6:16-17). Children are not seen as unwanted or as a nuisance (unless they turn wicked), but they are considered gifts from God - the greatest possible of blessings Psalms 127:3-5; Psalms 113:9; Genesis 17:6; Genesis 33:5

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Among the Jews who saw children as a gift and barrenness as a curse, it was unthinkable that an Israelite woman should desire an abortion.

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Even Josephus the Jewish historian made mention of this saying “The law orders all the offspring be brought up, and forbids women either to cause abortion or to make away with the fetus.”

Why Is the New Testament Silent about Abortion?

But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. 1 Timothy 2:15

GodLovesCats · Feb 16, 2020

redleghunter said:
Equal moral worth means both the pregnant woman and child in the womb.

Do you actually respect the mom's equal moral worth throughout her pregnancy?

Calling women who choose abortion murderers is the opposite of what Jesus would do.

redleghunter · Feb 16, 2020

ChristianForCats said:
Do you actually respect the mom's equal moral worth throughout her pregnancy?

Calling women who choose abortion murderers is the opposite of what Jesus would do.

Equal moral worth means both the pregnant woman and child in the womb.

What again exactly would “Jesus do?”

GodLovesCats · Feb 16, 2020

redleghunter said:
What again exactly would “Jesus do?”

Jesus talked about being nice and not condescending. Something about lifting each other up. He also said the second commandment is, "Love your neighbor as yourself." Then there is the judgment warning: "Do not judge others, for you will be judged." Clearly Jesus would not tell women they are murderers if any of them had an abortion. Nor would he tell a pregnant woman just to put up with her pain and say since she had unprotected sex, her mental and physical suffering are deserved and must go on for nine months.

Hazelelponi · Feb 16, 2020

ChristianForCats said:
Jesus talked about being nice and not condescending. Something about lifting each other up. He also said the second commandment is, "Love your neighbor as yourself." Then there is the judgment warning: "Do not judge others, for you will be judged." Clearly Jesus would not tell women they are murderers if any of them had an abortion. Nor would he tell a pregnant woman just to put up with her pain and say since she had unprotected sex, her mental and physical suffering are deserved and must go on for nine months.

Jesus was always quick to point out sin and hypocrisy..

The command not to judge is not to do so in hypocrisy with blinders on - Hes not telling you to stop any form of speaking to others steeped in grievous sin about His truth! As Jesus said with the measure you measure with, you will be measured... (Luke 6:38)

If you read on in Luke you see Jesus explain in parable by saying: "Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit?" (Luke 6:39)

If you are steeped in sin, you can't see what is sin and what is good because you haven't become more like your Master yet. (Luke 6:40)

However, when we read further on in the chapter we understand that after the plank is removed from our eye, we can see clearly to then remove the speck from our brothers eye. (Luke 6:42)

Don't be a hypocrite, but dont take the attitude that sin is good or support abominations to God - evil should sicken us!

The closer we get to God, the more we begin to love what He loves and hate what he hates - and He hates sin!

"There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers." Proverbs 6:16-19

"Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good." Romans 12:9

When we hate evil we will find it repulsive and thus be saved from falling into sin, but when we approve of sin we err..

So judge according to God's truth, just don't be a hypocrite.

crossnote · Feb 16, 2020

ChristianForCats said:
What is a strawman?

Where one sets up a flimsy example so they can easily disprove the other's case.

chevyontheriver · Feb 16, 2020

ChristianForCats said:
Equal worth means never disrespecting the mom, treating her like she is less worthy than a human being that should not exist. It is never moral to force her to suffer in any way unless Jesus would do it.

Equal worth means not killing the baby, treating her like she is less worthy and should not exist. It is never moral to kill an innocent human being. It's ... disrespectful.

The mom never loses her moral worth just because she conceived an unwanted baby.

The unborn baby never loses her moral worth just because she was conceived as an unwanted baby.

If you only say just because the baby has moral worth it should not be killed, you are saying she has no moral worth at all as long as she is pregnant. There is no way around that. If you truly believe the mom has moral worth - and all Christians are obligated to do so in the Bible - then you do not want to force her to carry a life she had tried to avoid conceiving against her will when she is suffering mentally and physically as a result.

It's a strange moral universe where you have to kill one person to show the moral worth of another. It's a cruel universe where big people kill little people, powerful people kill the powerless, people dehumanize other people, and we've killed 60 million innocent human beings in America alone. How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust? Their killing was just as legal and as moral as what has happened here.

The hypocrisy of being "pro-life"

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