Should we stop listening to the likes of Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation music?

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lismore

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I think most who come to Christ typically go through a few doctrinal belief changes along the way.

Hello. Perhaps there is another possibility. Opportunistic, dubious individuals promoting superficially exciting worldly style music into the huge and hugely lucrative Christian worship market, thereby presenting their own message without the power of the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Bringing people onto the broad road rather than the narrow path (Matthew 7:13-14)

God Bless :)
 
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Josheb

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I'm not sure where to post it so I'll post here...

There is no doubt about it that churches like Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation church are somewhat dangerously heretic and controversial in some of their teachings, music and beliefs... There seems to be a rise in some pastors sound in doctrine and other believers warning us to stay away and stop listening to music related to these churches because in some ways, we are supporting these churches by funding them when we listen to their music. I've always thought of these to be a minor issue as I only rather focus on glorying God and if the music is glorying and full of truth to the word of God as revealed in the Bible then I have no problem playing or sharing it... I'm just curious to know what some of you think regarding these things. Please share in all honesty in love and truth. God bless.
It is my observation 1) pastor of fledgling congregations become easily persuaded to affiliate with these groups because of the plethora of resources and the emphasis on experience over doctrine and 2) many converts don't stay in these congregations long because they invariably seek out meatier content so these congregations have comparatively more turn over.

I will be speaking to one such congregation next month and will easily share scriptural truth and be well-received for having done so. I will, in all likelihood, also be asked by the leaders to keep such content to a minimum and then afterwards be thanked for having done so (apparently unawares of the conflict between those two expressions).

My professional position provides me with the opportunity to network with a wide diversity congregations and their respective doctrinal positions, usually with positive effect even though I may not personally agree with those positions. I recently challenged the leaders of a congregation to examine their membership policies because they require all members to subscribe to Dispensational Premillennialism. Such a requirement would prohibit the likes of Polycarp, Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin and Arminius, Spurgeon, Schaeffer, Sproul and many, many others from ever being members. None of those great teachers would be permitted to teach in that congregation.

I see these kinds of things often. Does not in any way prevent me from speaking truth. Would I fellowship there or rely upon such leadership for spiritual growth? No.
 
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Guojing

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I'm not sure where to post it so I'll post here...

There is no doubt about it that churches like Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation church are somewhat dangerously heretic and controversial in some of their teachings, music and beliefs... There seems to be a rise in some pastors sound in doctrine and other believers warning us to stay away and stop listening to music related to these churches because in some ways, we are supporting these churches by funding them when we listen to their music. I've always thought of these to be a minor issue as I only rather focus on glorying God and if the music is glorying and full of truth to the word of God as revealed in the Bible then I have no problem playing or sharing it... I'm just curious to know what some of you think regarding these things. Please share in all honesty in love and truth. God bless.

The Apostle Paul had some good advice in Romans 14 regarding this, esp in vs5

Romans 14 King James Version (KJV)

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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I'm not sure where to post it so I'll post here...

There is no doubt about it that churches like Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation church are somewhat dangerously heretic and controversial in some of their teachings, music and beliefs... There seems to be a rise in some pastors sound in doctrine and other believers warning us to stay away and stop listening to music related to these churches because in some ways, we are supporting these churches by funding them when we listen to their music. I've always thought of these to be a minor issue as I only rather focus on glorying God and if the music is glorying and full of truth to the word of God as revealed in the Bible then I have no problem playing or sharing it... I'm just curious to know what some of you think regarding these things. Please share in all honesty in love and truth. God bless.
Most of the churches that condemn those two movements are filled with heresies themselves. So what is a person supposed to do? Find a perfect church? It does not exist. There is only one that was perfect. His name was Jesus Christ.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Also repeating phrases over and over again to get people psyched up is not worship and smacks of tactics used by hypnotists.

Since I don't find the churches mentioned in the OP to be sound, I certainly wouldn't be listening or singing their songs.

Both of those statements are accusations. Nothing more.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Have a listen to Paul Washer and this other pastor:



I know other Christians who are starting to speak out against music by these churches. And I can't ignore their voices anymore, it is somewhat unsettling.
These are just false accusations by people who have all kinds of heretical teachings themselves. Remove the plank from thinebown eye. Then you might see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers eye.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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The bible encourages us towards 'sound doctrine' (Titus 2:1). Therefore if we knowingly sing songs with false doctrine, use worship materials that promote false gospels or provide revenue to false teachers and wolves I think we are on very dangerous ground. Discernment is more than it sounds good, it's superficially appealing to the senses and it tags mention of a Jesus in somewhere.

The bible tells us that Satan masquerades as a angel of light. The bible also tells us that some 'Christian' teachers come with a different gospel, a different Jesus, operating in a different Spirit. We are not to put up with it (2 Corinthians 11:4-5).

Test everything, be careful! Do not follow the crowd in doing the wrong thing (Exodus 23:2) God Bless :)
The Bible says lots of things. One of them warns against a partisan spirit. (A heretical spirit.) Where groups falsely accuse other groups rather than judging them fairly out of of a good will. Such, the Bible says will be judged with the same judgement they judge with. So, many better be prepared in that day to find Christ will not be overlooking their false teachings because they couldn’t overlook the errors and ignorance of their brothers. Since you deemed others in Christ’s flock to be false based on your own bias, and lack of righteousness. Christ will deem you to not be part of his flock. Or... if that is to harsh for you to stomach. How about the open door into your life for Satan to enter into to kill, steal and destroy because you falsely accused Gods saints? You see. It is one thing for you to point out error as long as you can also recognize God’s people in general are erroneous and give God the space, the time, the decades to correct the error and deal with his children. It’s another thing entirely for you to declare Gods children of Satan, preaching a false gospel about a false Jesus because of some errors. How on earth did God save you my friend? You were born into error. You came to Christ filled with error. You have been being raised as a child by a Heavenly Father who seeks to save you from error even though you still have all kinds of it. Why doesn’t he forsake you and declare you a heretic for your past, present and future error? What! Did you go to theology school and save yourself from error so God can save you? Get real here. And quit being a partisan driven by something other than the grace of God. Just as Gods grace saved..is saving you. He has saved.. is saving them.

I know a pastor who is widely respected and received by multiple denominations and non denominational churches. He received multiple warnings and admonishments about Bill Johnson from many respected people. So many that he thought he had better look into the guy and his teachings. Guess what? He found that the guy wasn’t teaching anything like he heard. But found he was a good Christian doing his best and worthy of fellowship. Perhaps you should do the same.
 
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JSRG

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Can someone explain to me exactly what is wrong with Bethel/Hillsing/Elevation, or offer a link to an explanation? A few videos have been posted but they're rather long, and I would prefer a shorter summary--or, failing the short part, have it at least be in text (it's generally much faster to read something than to have to watch it).
 
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NWGeorgiaguy

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I will listen to Hillsong and continue to do so. Ever since I came across a video on youtube that condemns them bla bla bla never watch it it's just the same ole political correctness. The people who put up these videos are teaching false doctrine themselves blind leading the blind.
They pretty much have a beef with every joe out there on doctrine, music, KJ only, losing salvation.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I'm not sure where to post it so I'll post here...

There is no doubt about it that churches like Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation church are somewhat dangerously heretic and controversial in some of their teachings, music and beliefs... There seems to be a rise in some pastors sound in doctrine and other believers warning us to stay away and stop listening to music related to these churches because in some ways, we are supporting these churches by funding them when we listen to their music. I've always thought of these to be a minor issue as I only rather focus on glorying God and if the music is glorying and full of truth to the word of God as revealed in the Bible then I have no problem playing or sharing it... I'm just curious to know what some of you think regarding these things. Please share in all honesty in love and truth. God bless.
There are a few basic principles that apply, over which "black and white thinking" Christians seem to get "spiritual indigestion".

One of them is that God can use whatever he chooses to use, for example: many "evangelists" who turned out to be big liars may have been instrumental in many souls saved. Bar room songs have been turned into hymns.

Another is that NONE of us, no matter how sound in doctrine, quite understand what God has done for us; none of us has it quite right. No way we can "sound the depths of love divine", nor the horror that sin is, nor the purity and justice and mercy of God. Many a coherent thought that tugs at the heart and has the feel of truth is assumed to BE true, that is not. (I don't say that to justify those you refer to, but...)

Another thought concerns a quote I can't seem to find that has in the last many years meant a lot to me; it goes something like this: "Nobody can in praise or worship improve on what God has said about himself".

The human heart, I have found out, no matter how emotionally exulting or full of praise (or heartfelt repentance, even), can be trusted, including, and maybe specially, my own. But God, and the Word of God, has never let me down.
 
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Church services are exempt from copyright law.
Sorry, they pay royalties to use the material of these artists. Perhaps 'copyright laws' was a bad choice of words.
 
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It's one thing to have assurance of salvation but pushing things to extreme on crossing the t's and dotting the i's on every possible senerio in what kind of christian music is deemed acceptable is pure legalism.
It's not legalism unless this is also...

(2Ti 4:2) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
 
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There are a few basic principles that apply, over which "black and white thinking" Christians seem to get "spiritual indigestion".

One of them is that God can use whatever he chooses to use, for example: many "evangelists" who turned out to be big liars may have been instrumental in many souls saved. Bar room songs have been turned into hymns.

Another is that NONE of us, no matter how sound in doctrine, quite understand what God has done for us; none of us has it quite right. No way we can "sound the depths of love divine", nor the horror that sin is, nor the purity and justice and mercy of God. Many a coherent thought that tugs at the heart and has the feel of truth is assumed to BE true, that is not. (I don't say that to justify those you refer to, but...)

Another thought concerns a quote I can't seem to find that has in the last many years meant a lot to me; it goes something like this: "Nobody can in praise or worship improve on what God has said about himself".

The human heart, I have found out, no matter how emotionally exulting or full of praise (or heartfelt repentance, even), can be trusted, including, and maybe specially, my own. But God, and the Word of God, has never let me down.
You have heard of a thing called false worship? Of how Israel, in the OT, often was led astray into false worship, which led to departing from the true God?
 
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GaveMeJoy

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[QUOTE="Aussie Pete, post: 74725177, member: 421731" that do nothing to edify the believer and glorify God[/QUOTE]

I disagree. Many of the times the Holy Spirit has given me comfort, ecouragement, edification, and ministered to my soul have been while listening to songs from the above artists. I can understand how older people or people with different musical tastes would prefer older hymns to new Christian worship. In addition, many new songs are either weak or problematic/based in poor theology. But some songs from the same artists are extremely edifying and Christ exalting.

That to say, Bethel is a dangerous borderline cult branch of Christianity, and they are deceiving many. It is an established fact that they intentionally use their music to proactively worm their way into believers and seekers lives to further their hypercharismatic agenda (they freely state this in interviews).

The documentary American Gospel addresses this question directly.

Every Christian should use discernment regarding everything they listen to. For example, I would say watching Fox News or listening to political radio is more problematic and damaging than listening to Bethel music. However, it all needs to be weighed, though I don't think carpet bombing an entire worship culture because some songs and some groups have some doctrinal issues is the way.
:)
 
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GaveMeJoy

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Proper doctrine matters, but I don't think it's as important as proper lifestyle or proper intentions.
I think this is true EXCEPT regarding the gospel. The big different in my opinion between the mentions is that Bethel fully distorts the gospel. Also they intentionally use their music as a tool to further this, by their own admission. Hillsong just seem to be more like confused new hippies than trying to push a false doctrine on the people but that's just an opinion I don't know enough about them to make a definitive statement. Bethel however, is a false church. The documentary American Gospel is epic and addresses this false gospel.
 
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Peter J Barban

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Can someone explain to me exactly what is wrong with Bethel/Hillsing/Elevation, or offer a link to an explanation? A few videos have been posted but they're rather long, and I would prefer a shorter summary--or, failing the short part, have it at least be in text (it's generally much faster to read something than to have to watch it).
In the videos, they say that Bethel/Hillsong are promoting the prosperity gospel and other Word of Faith things. Which I agree are not Biblical.
 
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Aussie Pete

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[QUOTE="Aussie Pete, post: 74725177, member: 421731" that do nothing to edify the believer and glorify God

I disagree. Many of the times the Holy Spirit has given me comfort, ecouragement, edification, and ministered to my soul have been while listening to songs from the above artists. I can understand how older people or people with different musical tastes would prefer older hymns to new Christian worship. In addition, many new songs are either weak or problematic/based in poor theology. But some songs from the same artists are extremely edifying and Christ exalting.

That to say, Bethel is a dangerous borderline cult branch of Christianity, and they are deceiving many. It is an established fact that they intentionally use their music to proactively worm their way into believers and seekers lives to further their hypercharismatic agenda (they freely state this in interviews).

The documentary American Gospel addresses this question directly.

Every Christian should use discernment regarding everything they listen to. For example, I would say watching Fox News or listening to political radio is more problematic and damaging than listening to Bethel music. However, it all needs to be weighed, though I don't think carpet bombing an entire worship culture because some songs and some groups have some doctrinal issues is the way.
:)[/QUOTE]
The tragedy to me is that few performers seem to know the difference between what is edifying and what is not. I'm not against modern sounds. I listen to Amy Grant, Casting Crowns, The Martins, the Isaacs and some Bill Gaither stuff as well as other contemporary bands. I also listen to a lot of older style choirs, Bach and Handel's Messiah. I have broad tastes. When it comes to music in church meeting, it's commonplace for the singers to try and pump up the congregation. It's also straight out wrong. That's just emotional stimulation that has no spiritual benefit. The difficulty in being discerning in a meeting is that you do not get to choose what to listen to.

Ministering to the soul is exactly what is happening much of the time. And that is the problem. Christians are spiritual beings, no longer just living souls. We need our spirit to be edified, not our emotions stirred up.
 
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Johan_1988

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Yes ,I believe it's good to stay away from all the new music they make since they have backslidden in recent years. It's a real shame ,some of them used to make very good music. I would stick to some good old ones and leave the rest alone. It's simply result of the charismatic churches whom they belong to that have strayed from good doctrine and compromised to please unbelievers or easy believers that just want cheap grace when the blood of Jesus Christ is very expensive even without price. You find those churches everywhere ,even here in South Africa. Cheap grace, politically correct preaching and a lot of asking for money. It's very sad. Let us just pray for those people and distance ourselves from their nonsense.
 
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Hello. Perhaps there is another possibility. Opportunistic, dubious individuals promoting superficially exciting worldly style music into the huge and hugely lucrative Christian worship market, thereby presenting their own message without the power of the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Bringing people onto the broad road rather than the narrow path (Matthew 7:13-14)

God Bless :)

But it’s the Holy Spirit that brings someone to Christ not the evangelist. I think those who find themselves on the broad road are there because of their own unwillingness to truly repent. Remember that God is waiting patiently for us to repent and those who are truly seeking to serve Him will search for ways to do so. I don’t think that someone who could’ve been saved will not be saved because they were misled. God will call all who seek to serve Him.
 
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