If you can't re-marry then...

SkyWriting said:

Matthew 5:32
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Romans 13:1
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities (the laws they make). For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist (the laws they make) have been instituted by God.

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You got to understand something about Dave L and he hasn't said it in this thread surprisingly. To him, Matthew 5:32 is Old Testament and not the New Testament. Yet, he considers the sermon on the mount to be for Christians today.

As you can see, he picks and chooses what it is for Christians today. It is not consistent across the board.

There are other scriptures which can be used as well for remarriage. One such is burning with passion.

I am divorced against my will. My wife divorced me. I am still young and and burn with passion. So, I was abandoned and burn with passion. Paul doesn't want me burning with passion because that leads one into many sins. Marriage/Remarriage in my instance is not sin. This has been established by priests in two different denominations as well as pastors in a couple that I have spoken to.

SkyWriting said:

Matthew 5:32
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Romans 13:1
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities (the laws they make). For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist (the laws they make) have been instituted by God.

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Matthew 19:9 is not part of the New Covenant and does not permit divorce and remarriage on grounds of infidelity. When it did apply under the OT, it meant any woman not a virgin when married was subject to capital punishment if her husband divorced her for that reason. She was then stoned to death and the husband was free to marry. Marriage is for life.

But Jesus taught against remarriage for any reason other than that. He showed what happened if capital punishment was not administered to the adulter.

1) a husband divorces his innocent wife and marries another. = these commit adultery.

2) the innocent wife then marries her second husband. = she and he also commit adultery, even though divorced from an adulterous husband. (the except clause does not mean what most think).

3) four people end up committing adultery as a result of the State not killing the adulterous husband # 1.

Isilwen said:

You got to understand something about Dave L and he hasn't said it in this thread surprisingly. To him, Matthew 5:32 is Old Testament and not the New Testament.

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The Old Testament is referenced quite a lot in the new.
I'd hate to leave these passages out. For example:

Mat 1:23 Isa 7:14
Mat 2:6 Mic 5:2
Mat 2:15 Hsa 11:1
Mat 2:18 Jer 31:15
Mat 3:3 Isa 40:3
Mat 4:4 Deu 8:3
Mat 4:6 Psa 91:11, 12
Mat 4:7 Deu 6:16
Mat 4:10 Deu 6:13
Mat 4:10 Deu 10:20
Mat 4:15, 16 Isa 9:1, 2
Mat 4:15, 16 Isa 42:7
Mat 5:5 Psa 37:11 *
Mat 5:21 Exd 20:13 *
Mat 5:21 Deu 5:17
Mat 5:27 Exd 20:14 *
Mat 5:27 Deu 5:18
Mat 5:31 Deu 24:1 *
Mat 5:33 Exd 20:7 *
Mat 5:33 Lev 19:12 *
Mat 5:38 Exd 21:24 *
Mat 5:38 Lev 24:20 *
Mat 5:38 Deu 19:21
Mat 5:43 Lev 19:18 *
Mat 5:48 Gen 17:1
Mat 7:23 Psa 6:8
Mat 8:4 Lev 14:2, 3 *
Mat 8:17 Isa 53:4
Mat 9:13 Hsa 6:6
Mat 10:35, 36 Mic 7:6 *
Mat 11:5 Isa 35:5 *
Mat 11:5 Isa 29:18 *
Mat 11:10 Mal 3:1
Mat 11:14 Mal 4:5 *
Mat 12:3 1Sa 21:6 *
Mat 12:5 Num 28:9, 10 *
Mat 12:7 Hsa 6:6
Mat 12:18 Isa 42:1
Mat 12:18-21 Isa 42:1-4
Mat 12:40 Jon 1:17 &c *
Mat 12:42 1Ki 10:1 *
Mat 13:14 Isa 6:9, 10
Mat 13:35 Psa 78:2
Mat 15:4 Exd 20:12
Mat 15:4 Deu 5:16
Mat 15:4 Exd 21:17
Mat 15:4 Lev 20:9 *
Mat 15:4 Pro 20:20 *
Mat 15:8, 9 Isa 29:13
Mat 16:4 Jon 1:17 *
Mat 17:10 Mal 4:5 *
Mat 18:15 Lev 19:17 *
Mat 18:16 Lev 19:15 *
Mat 18:16 Deu 19:15 *
Mat 19:4 Gen 1:27 *
Mat 19:5 Gen 2:24
Mat 19:7 Deu 24:1 *
Mat 19:18 Exd 20:12 &c
Mat 19:19 Lev 19:18
Mat 19:26 Jer 32:17 *
Mat 21:5 Zec 9:9
Mat 21:9 Psa 118:26
Mat 21:13 Isa 56:7
Mat 21:13 Jer 7:11
Mat 21:16 Psa 8:2
Mat 21:33 Isa 5:1 *
Mat 21:42 Psa 118:22, 23
Mat 21:44 Isa 8:14 *
Mat 21:44 Zec 12:3 *
Mat 21:44 Dan 2:34, 35, 44 *
Mat 22:24 Deu 25:5
Mat 22:32 Exd 3:6
Mat 22:37 Deu 6:5
Mat 22:39 Lev 19:18
Mat 22:44 Psa 110:1
Mat 23:35 Gen 4:8 *
Mat 23:35 2Ch 24:21, 22 *
Mat 23:38 Psa 69:25 *
Mat 23:38 Jer 12:7 *
Mat 23:38 Jer 22:5 *

SkyWriting said:

The Old Testament is referenced quite a lot in the new.
I'd hate to leave these passages out. For example:

Mat 1:23 Isa 7:14
Mat 2:6 Mic 5:2
Mat 2:15 Hsa 11:1
Mat 2:18 Jer 31:15
Mat 3:3 Isa 40:3
Mat 4:4 Deu 8:3
Mat 4:6 Psa 91:11, 12
Mat 4:7 Deu 6:16
Mat 4:10 Deu 6:13
Mat 4:10 Deu 10:20
Mat 4:15, 16 Isa 9:1, 2
Mat 4:15, 16 Isa 42:7
Mat 5:5 Psa 37:11 *
Mat 5:21 Exd 20:13 *
Mat 5:21 Deu 5:17
Mat 5:27 Exd 20:14 *
Mat 5:27 Deu 5:18
Mat 5:31 Deu 24:1 *
Mat 5:33 Exd 20:7 *
Mat 5:33 Lev 19:12 *
Mat 5:38 Exd 21:24 *
Mat 5:38 Lev 24:20 *
Mat 5:38 Deu 19:21
Mat 5:43 Lev 19:18 *
Mat 5:48 Gen 17:1
Mat 7:23 Psa 6:8
Mat 8:4 Lev 14:2, 3 *
Mat 8:17 Isa 53:4
Mat 9:13 Hsa 6:6
Mat 10:35, 36 Mic 7:6 *
Mat 11:5 Isa 35:5 *
Mat 11:5 Isa 29:18 *
Mat 11:10 Mal 3:1
Mat 11:14 Mal 4:5 *
Mat 12:3 1Sa 21:6 *
Mat 12:5 Num 28:9, 10 *
Mat 12:7 Hsa 6:6
Mat 12:18 Isa 42:1
Mat 12:18-21 Isa 42:1-4
Mat 12:40 Jon 1:17 &c *
Mat 12:42 1Ki 10:1 *
Mat 13:14 Isa 6:9, 10
Mat 13:35 Psa 78:2
Mat 15:4 Exd 20:12
Mat 15:4 Deu 5:16
Mat 15:4 Exd 21:17
Mat 15:4 Lev 20:9 *
Mat 15:4 Pro 20:20 *
Mat 15:8, 9 Isa 29:13
Mat 16:4 Jon 1:17 *
Mat 17:10 Mal 4:5 *
Mat 18:15 Lev 19:17 *
Mat 18:16 Lev 19:15 *
Mat 18:16 Deu 19:15 *
Mat 19:4 Gen 1:27 *
Mat 19:5 Gen 2:24
Mat 19:7 Deu 24:1 *
Mat 19:18 Exd 20:12 &c
Mat 19:19 Lev 19:18
Mat 19:26 Jer 32:17 *
Mat 21:5 Zec 9:9
Mat 21:9 Psa 118:26
Mat 21:13 Isa 56:7
Mat 21:13 Jer 7:11
Mat 21:16 Psa 8:2
Mat 21:33 Isa 5:1 *
Mat 21:42 Psa 118:22, 23
Mat 21:44 Isa 8:14 *
Mat 21:44 Zec 12:3 *
Mat 21:44 Dan 2:34, 35, 44 *
Mat 22:24 Deu 25:5
Mat 22:32 Exd 3:6
Mat 22:37 Deu 6:5
Mat 22:39 Lev 19:18
Mat 22:44 Psa 110:1
Mat 23:35 Gen 4:8 *
Mat 23:35 2Ch 24:21, 22 *
Mat 23:38 Psa 69:25 *
Mat 23:38 Jer 12:7 *
Mat 23:38 Jer 22:5 *

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I am with you fully.

Dave L said:

Matthew 19:9 is not part of the New Covenant and does not permit divorce and remarriage on grounds of infidelity. When it did apply under the OT, it meant any woman not a virgin when married was subject to capital punishment if her husband divorced her for that reason. She was then stoned to death and the husband was free to marry. Marriage is for life.

But Jesus taught against remarriage for any reason other than that. He showed what happened if capital punishment was not administered to the adulter.

1) a husband divorces his innocent wife and marries another. = these commit adultery.

2) the innocent wife then marries her second husband. = she and he also commit adultery, even though divorced from an adulterous husband. (the except clause does not mean what most think).

3) four people end up committing adultery as a result of the State not killing the adulterous husband # 1.

Click to expand...

New Testament passages explain that Local Laws are the will of God.

Jesus explains that:

John 19:11
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

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And then Jesus went to the cross to prove His point, once and for all.

SkyWriting said:

New Testament passages explain that Local Laws are the will of God.

Jesus explains that:

John 19:11
Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

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So you can live in adultery? Where does Jesus say this?

S.O.J.I.A. said:

because scripture says it is.

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Where does it say that if a man leaves his wife for another woman, later gets a divorce without his wife's consent and eventually she remarries, she has sinned?

Strong in Him said:

Where does it say that if a man leaves his wife for another woman, later gets a divorce without his wife's consent and eventually she remarries, she has sinned?

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I believe they are so focused on the letter of the law...

Strong in Him said:

Where does it say that if a man leaves his wife for another woman, later gets a divorce without his wife's consent and eventually she remarries, she has sinned?

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matthew 5, matthew 19, and romans 7.

Isilwen said:

I believe they are so focused on the letter of the law...

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if by "letter of the law" you mean what Jesus said out of his own mouth then yes, we're focused on that.

S.O.J.I.A. said:

matthew 5, matthew 19, and romans 7.



if by "letter of the law" you mean what Jesus said out of his own mouth then yes, we're focused on that.

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There is also the spirit of the law, which you miss by focusing on the letter of the law.

Remarriage is allowed as has been established in this thread by those who are far more educated than I. I have been told by priests and pastors that I am free to remarry. I am only 45 years old and will be remarrying.

S.O.J.I.A. said:

i didn't miss the keyword and the greek word used here is "inappropriate contenteia" which is translated as fornication. i clearly said she would be an adulterous if she remarried.

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Sure, but since it says "except for fornication", since that is the reason, then she is not committed adultery because of the word "but" or "except".

actually yes it does because abandonment =/= fornication and you are now saying there is another reason to divorce and remarry which has you pitting the words of paul against the words of Messiah.

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No, it doesn't. fornication is a form of abandonment Abandonment can be any form of betrayal.
I gave you a question to explain how remarriage is logical to be included in that, and you ignored it.

Why do you fundamentalists ignore the important questions?
Again, If your spouse reveals or converts to be a satanist (unbeliever now) are you bound to this person forever that you can't even remarry an actual christian?

SkyWriting said:

New Testament passages explain that Local Laws are the will of God.

Jesus explains that:




And then Jesus went to the cross to prove His point, once and for all.

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Satan's kingdoms that practice adultery and murder are to be followed instead of Jesus?

S.O.J.I.A. said:

matthew 5, matthew 19, and romans 7.

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No, Matthew 5:32 says that if a man divorces his wife - i.e actively seeks a divorce from her - he causes her to be an adulteress. The twofold sin is his; i) for the divorce and ii) for making his wife an adulteress. It does not say that if a man walks out on his wife and later divorces her without her consent - i.e she is not the one seeking the divorce - then SHE is the sinner.
Incidentally, Jesus appears to allow the exception of divorce for marital unfaithfulness. But in those days, if adultery could be proved, it meant death for the woman, see John 8 - so there would be no need for divorce.
Matthew 19:1-12 again says that it is the men divorcing their wives that cause the problem. Jesus does NOT say that a man leaving his wife and later divorcing her without her consent makes HER a sinner.
In those days women had virtually no rights, so if a man left a "certificate of divorce" on the table and walked off; that was it. They did not have the right to initiate divorce themselves.

That does not address the situation we sometimes have today where someone can walk out on his wife - maybe for another woman - and years later divorce her without her consent or knowledge. I have known that to happen; one partner walks away from a marriage - because of an affair, or "to find themselves" or for another reason - several years later they decide they want to be married to someone else and the first partner gets a letter to say "for your information; you're divorced". They've had no chance to contest it or fight to save the relationship. The Bible does not address this. I dare say it didn't exist in those days.

Isilwen said:

I believe they are so focused on the letter of the law...

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Could be.
If we're taking Scripture literally, Jesus spoke of a man not divorcing his wife, not a woman divorcing her husband.

Yeah you guys are just making stuff up at this point. Didn't take long for that to start.

I'll deal with this mess later. I'm at work.

S.O.J.I.A. said:

Yeah you guys are just making stuff up at this point. Didn't take long for that to start.

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No, I, for one, am saying a) that there are things that Scripture doesn't address and b) people need to realise the context in which Scripture was written and what was being said.

But I've written before about exegesis, and had the answer that I m making the word say what I want it to say, so I'm not surprised by that reply.
I'm off to church.

Sabertooth said:

Not every church prohibits remarriage.

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He didn't ask about churches, he asked about the Bible.

1213 said:

I think in Biblical point of view, having relationship with sex, is marriage. Man and woman who have sex are married, because:

'For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall join to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh?'
Matt. 19:5

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That doesn't make sense, because that means habitual fornicators aren't showing themselves to be unconverted / won't go to hell (Gal 5:19-21). After all, they'd only fornicate one time, and then they'd be married. Every subsequent act of sex would not be fornication.

S.O.J.I.A. said:

Yeah you guys are just making stuff up at this point. Didn't take long for that to start.

I'll deal with this mess later. I'm at work.

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It's quite impressive.

So does God not forgive ? We are free from the law unless it’s divorce ? What happens when a spouse refuses sound teaching ? Refuses reconciliation? Causes harm ? Or abuse to spouse or children ? The innocent spouse is trapped ? And not able to have a loving relationship again because perhaps they made a mistake ? What if remarried now what ? Divorce again ? Two wrongs make right ?