If you can't re-marry then...

S.O.J.I.A.

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Cis.jd

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i understand that's how you personally feel. the scripture says they're both in sin if they remarry.
I understood that was what you are telling me, but "who is sinning" wasn't the question.

yes, per the scriptures.
Is he's also tied to his new wife? He officially divorced his former wife, he didn't follow "the law" so his first wife is no longer his.
 
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Cis.jd

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Some would say that he is now a bigamist. Others might say that his first marriage is the only legitimate marriage and his second "marriage" is actually adultery.

But he divorced the first marriage. Isn't the christian view that divorce is a no.. not divorce doesn't exist?
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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Cis.jd

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he's committing adultery with his new wife.
Ok.The husband is committing adultery because he remarried. He took the first shot.

So doesn't Matt 19:3-9 apply to the ex-wife – "except for sexual immorality" (adding 1st Cor 7:15 on here too)?

edit: Just to clear my stance. I am not pro-divorce because The Church doesn't support divorce. The Church has to null it first.
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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Ok.The husband is committing adultery because he remarried. He took the first shot.

the husband is committing adultery by remarrying
the "new wife" is committing adultery by being with that man
the "old wife" will be committing adultery if she remarries.

So doesn't Matt 19:3-9 apply to the ex-wife – "except for sexual immorality" (adding 1st Cor 7:15 on here too)?

explained in post #24

fornication = deutornomy 22:13-21
1cor7:15 does not condone remarriage, only a release from spousal duties.
 
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bbbbbbb

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But he divorced the first marriage. Isn't the christian view that divorce is a no.. not divorce doesn't exist?

The Catholic Church, which I note that you belong to, holds that divorce does not exist. Annulment of a marriage, however, can be, and is, permitted, by the Catholic Church for a variety of reasons, one of the primary being the non-consummation of the marriage which, biologically, can be exceedingly difficult to prove. For example, Teddy Kennedy sought an annulment of his marriage, but his wife objected on the grounds that their children would then be declared bastards and she an adulteress. He was not granted an annulment, but, as we all know, sought female companionship outside the view of the Catholic Church.

The difficulty is that more and more Catholics are ignoring the moral teachings of the Catholic Church. The primary impetus was the Church's ban on any form of contraception. The average number of children in present-day American Catholic families is virtually identical to those of non-Catholic families - slightly over two children, which means that either the Catholics are engaging in contraception or they have decided to cease marital relations on a fairly permanent basis.

Technically, the Catholic Church excommunicates unrepentant sinners, but since it has been hemorrhaging members, virtually nobody is being excommunicated today. In actual fact, there are some Catholics who, for various reasons, remain exceedingly loyal to the Church and continue to attend mass and take the eucharist even though they have divorced and remarried.
 
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bbbbbbb

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the husband is committing adultery by remarrying
the "new wife" is committing adultery by being with that man
the "old wife" will be committing adultery if she remarries.



explained in post #24

fornication = deutornomy 22:13-21
1cor7:15 does not condone remarriage, only a release from spousal duties.

So, how do you expect the original wife (please let's not call her "old") to manage raising four children on her own?
 
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Cis.jd

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the husband is committing adultery by remarrying
the "new wife" is committing adultery by being with that man
the "old wife" will be committing adultery if she remarries.


explained in post #24

fornication = deutornomy 22:13-21
1cor7:15 does not condone remarriage, only a release from spousal duties.
Here is part of post #24
matt5 says that a man who divorces his wife but for fornication causes her to be an adulterous. this statement wouldn't make much sense if adultery was the reason he could divorce and remarry as he wouldn't be making her an adulterous by his actions.
First error. You missed out the Keyword: except/but. in fact, other translations have it as this "EXCEPT for the reason of unchastity". Since fornication happened with the husband remarrying (which is fornication) then she isn't an adulterer.

1cor7:15 doesn't need to reference the word "remarriage". It's just logical to see it as permissable in this circumstance. "believer is not bound to continue a marriage if an unbelieving spouse wants to leave".
Now if you think I am wrong, then answer me this, if you find out that your spouse is or converted to satanism, are you stuck married to this person forever; you can't remarry an actual christian you are one with the satanist?

Unbeliever can also refer to an abuser, even an abuser from a christian background, because if he was a true believer then he would have the Holy Spirit in him.
 
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Cis.jd

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The Catholic Church, which I note that you belong to, holds that divorce does not exist. Annulment of a marriage, however, can be, and is, permitted, by the Catholic Church for a variety of reasons, one of the primary being the non-consummation of the marriage which, biologically, can be exceedingly difficult to prove. For example, Teddy Kennedy sought an annulment of his marriage, but his wife objected on the grounds that their children would then be declared bastards and she an adulteress. He was not granted an annulment, but, as we all know, sought female companionship outside the view of the Catholic Church.

The difficulty is that more and more Catholics are ignoring the moral teachings of the Catholic Church. The primary impetus was the Church's ban on any form of contraception. The average number of children in present-day American Catholic families is virtually identical to those of non-Catholic families - slightly over two children, which means that either the Catholics are engaging in contraception or they have decided to cease marital relations on a fairly permanent basis.

Technically, the Catholic Church excommunicates unrepentant sinners, but since it has been hemorrhaging members, virtually nobody is being excommunicated today. In actual fact, there are some Catholics who, for various reasons, remain exceedingly loyal to the Church and continue to attend mass and take the eucharist even though they have divorced and remarried.

It does not say "divorce does not exist". We just don't believe in it.

Divorce is more of a civil law, Annulment is from the Church. Divorce is: The marriage ended and they are no legal obligations with each other anymore. Annulment is the Sacrament of marriage never really happened, even if the two parties where actually convinced that they loved each other and stated the vows. The reality is God never wanted these two together and there was no actual Matrimony.

So in order for a Catholic to be remarried, the previous marriage has to be annulled under the eyes of the church.
 
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Strong in Him

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By doing the best she can in an unfortunate situation.

Sinning is not an option.

If her husband walked out on her, against her will, to marry another woman, how is it her fault that he broke their marriage covenant? She has been sinned against.
If she then found someone who was willing to take on another man's 4 kids and provide for them all; how would it be a sin for them to marry, possibly have a child together, and be one big family?
 
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Dave L

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According to the Bible, all rules on how you are
supposed to live are obsolete.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

After you are forgiven, you decide what is right and wrong.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
There is no divorce provision in the NT.
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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If her husband walked out on her, against her will, to marry another woman, how is it her fault that he broke their marriage covenant? She has been sinned against.
If she then found someone who was willing to take on another man's 4 kids and provide for them all; how would it be a sin for them to marry, possibly have a child together, and be one big family?

because scripture says it is.

again, we can follow scripture or go about our own way of doing things.

pragmatism =/= fornication.
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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First error. You missed out the Keyword: except/but. in fact, other translations have it as this "EXCEPT for the reason of unchastity". Since fornication happened with the husband remarrying (which is fornication) then she isn't an adulterer.

i didn't miss the keyword and the greek word used here is "inappropriate contenteia" which is translated as fornication. i clearly said she would be an adulterous if she remarried.

1cor7:15 doesn't need to reference the word "remarriage".

actually yes it does because abandonment =/= fornication and you are now saying there is another reason to divorce and remarry which has you pitting the words of paul against the words of Messiah.
 
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SkyWriting

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It does not say "divorce does not exist". We just don't believe in it. Divorce is more of a civil law, Annulment is from the Church. Divorce is: The marriage ended and they are no legal obligations with each other anymore. Annulment is the Sacrament of marriage never really happened, even if the two parties where actually convinced that they loved each other and stated the vows. The reality is God never wanted these two together and there was no actual Matrimony. So in order for a Catholic to be remarried, the previous marriage has to be annulled under the eyes of the church.
There is no divorce provision in the NT.

0.
Romans 13:1
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities (the laws they make). For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist (the laws they make) have been instituted by God.

1. James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

2.
1 Corinthians 7:15
But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

3.
Matthew 5:32
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

4.
Matthew 19:9
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

5.
Romans 7:2
For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.

6.
Matthew 19:8
He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

7.
1 Corinthians 7:39
A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

8.
Romans 7:3
Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

9.
Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them (the laws they make), for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

10.
Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities (the laws they make), to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

11.
1 Peter 2:13-15
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution (the laws they make), whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people.
 
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Dave L

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0.
Romans 13:1
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

1. James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

2.
1 Corinthians 7:15
But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

3.
Matthew 5:32
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

4.
Matthew 19:9
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

5.
Romans 7:2
For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.

6.
Matthew 19:8
He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

7.
1 Corinthians 7:39
A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

8.
Romans 7:3
Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

9.
Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them (the laws they make), for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

10.
Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities (the laws they make), to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,
There is no provision in the NT for divorce. Jesus was interpreting the Law proving the Pharisees wrong in Matthew 19:9

The closest thing you have in the NT is when an unbeliever divorces a believing wife, she is not bound (enslaved) to obey him any further. But she is still married.

“But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.” 1 Corinthians 7:11 (KJV 1900)
 
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SkyWriting

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actually yes it does because abandonment =/= fornication and you are now saying there is another reason to divorce and remarry which has you pitting the words of paul against the words of Messiah.

Paul always loses these conflicts he created due to his poor understanding of Jesus.
 
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SkyWriting

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There is no provision in the NT for divorce. Jesus was interpreting the Law proving the Pharisees wrong in Matthew 19:9

Matthew 5:32
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Romans 13:1
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities (the laws they make). For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist (the laws they make) have been instituted by God.
 
Upvote 0