I thought we were in the best economy ever?

Allandavid

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Under Obama it just returned the way things were before the recession; under Trump things improved to a level not seen in nearly half a century.

Are you including the record debt in that...? Who is meant to pay that back...?

Are you including the record disparity between remuneration for billionaires, compared with working people...? Who got the massive lion’s share of the tax breaks that a Trump likes to crow about...?

Mate, you’ve been sold a lie by one of the most brazen carnival barkers your country has seen...
 
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Ken-1122

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Are you including the record debt in that...? Who is meant to pay that back...?
I agree the debt is bad. I think much of that is the result of him rebuilding the Military; I think he should have fixed the debt first, poor choice IMO.
Are you including the record disparity between remuneration for billionaires, compared with working people...?
Billionaires are working people. That said, I don't see a problem with the disparity between the rich and the poor, I think the problem everybody should be focusing on is the poor. If we can figure out a way to get money in the hands of our poorest, that should be our focus; not how much someone else has.

Who got the massive lion’s share of the tax breaks that a Trump likes to crow about...?
Those who pay most of the taxes.

Mate, you’ve been sold a lie by one of the most brazen carnival barkers your country has seen...
And what lie have I been sold?
 
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KCfromNC

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I pointed out in the graph when things began to slow down under Obama, and picked back up under trump.

And others corrected you on that - it picked back up when Obama was still in office.
And then they posted a number of other charts which you haven't been able to respond to.
That's pretty telling.

Why do you think nobody talked about the economy under Obama the way the are under trump?

I imagine it is because groups more prone to faith-based thinking tend to blindly support one party over the other.
Or because it never happened.
Likely a combination of the two.

What policies do you think Obama put in place that improved the economy?
I have no idea what this has to do with the previous topic - that the data doesn't line up with all of the hyperbole surrounding Donald's economic achievements.
 
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KCfromNC

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It could be measured, I pointed it out on the graphs I provided; I know when he began dismantling Obama's policies, and right about that time things seemed to continue improving again.

I'll just note the previous claim was that it was Donald about to be elected that got things moving again in 2016, which was a stretch but maybe plausible.

Now the claim is that Donald went back in time after being sworn in to start undoing Obama's policies while Obama was still in office.

Or is least it "seems" that way.

Like I mentioned before, with faith [in Donald] all things are possible.
 
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KCfromNC

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You’ve made some very good points! The 5 examples I listed appear to not have been implemented yet so they couldn’t have had an effect. Of the hundreds of regulations he has gotten rid of, I suspect some of them has had an effect, but I none of them come to mind at the moment.

Seems like a case of putting the conclusion before the evidence.

I also mentioned he cut taxes which I’m sure made a difference.

Just one that can't be seen on the charts.
 
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KCfromNC

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When the economy is at it's worse and it has no place to go but up, that is the worse time to see if your policies are helping or hindering recovery
That's not true. There were any number of "worse" points in previous recessions where things subsequently got even more "worse".
 
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Arcangl86

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It could be measured, I pointed it out on the graphs I provided; I know when he began dismantling Obama's policies, and right about that time things seemed to continue improving again.
Except the graphs show a pretty straight line trend. If the time axis wasn't labeled, you wouldn't be able to tell when the administrations switched over.

No, the strangulation was just a slowing down of the recovery. When the economy is at it's worse and it has no place to go but up, that is the worse time to see if your policies are helping or hindering recovery
You did study the Great Depression in school didn't you? As bad as the recession was, it was nowhere near as bad as that.
 
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Ken-1122

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And others corrected you on that - it picked back up when Obama was still in office.
And then they posted a number of other charts which you haven't been able to respond to.
That's pretty telling.
No, Trump was elected november of 2016. He immediately began having meetings with CEOs and business leaders telling of the coming changes of lower taxes and regulations when he gets into office. The market responded to that; so a couple months later when he was sworn in, things were already on the move. I've made that point already.
 
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Ken-1122

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Except the graphs show a pretty straight line trend. If the time axis wasn't labeled, you wouldn't be able to tell when the administrations switched over.
The graph I provided were not a straight line, it was a jagged line because there are changes on a weekly/monthly basis and a jagged line is required to reflect that.

You did study the Great Depression in school didn't you? As bad as the recession was, it was nowhere near as bad as that.
Nobody said it was!
 
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Arcangl86

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The graph I provided were not a straight line, it was a jagged line because there are changes on a weekly/monthly basis and a jagged line is required to reflect that.
Not literally a straight line then, but the point is, there was no major fluctuations. There was no sudden spikes or drops when Trump took office.
Nobody said it was!
Actually, you did.

When the economy is at it's worse and it has no place to go but up
There was plenty of room for the economy to get even worst then it did, and from what I've read the US actually recovered sooner then many other developed countries.
 
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Allandavid

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The graph I provided were not a straight line, it was a jagged line because there are changes on a weekly/monthly basis and a jagged line is required to reflect that.

And yet, you tried to use those short term ‘jags’ to make your case about “strangulation”...and on just ONE graph out of the many that disprove your argument. It’s a case of intellectual dishonesty...
 
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Ken-1122

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Not literally a straight line then, but the point is, there was no major fluctuations. There was no sudden spikes or drops when Trump took office.
This is one of the graphs I was talking about. Notice how unemployment drops from 10% high in 2010 to leveling off at approx 5% in the middle of 2015, 4.5% - 5% was where it was prior to the recession. Notice how it remained there till near the end of 2016, Then it begins to drop to a record low after that. Guess who got elected near the end of 2016?
U.S. Unemployment Rate Drops To 3.7 Percent, Lowest In Nearly 50 Years

Actually, you did.
If you are gonna accuse me of saying something, you need to provide a link or post # when I said it. Your word isn't good enough.

There was plenty of room for the economy to get even worst then it did, and from what I've read the US actually recovered sooner then many other developed countries.
Unemployment was twice as high during the recession as it usually is when the economy is healthy. When it recovers, it quickly returns to its typical healthy level. When it goes below it's typical healthy level, that's when things become noticeable. It didnt go below it's typical healthy level till Trump got into office.
 
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Ken-1122

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And yet, you tried to use those short term ‘jags’ to make your case about “strangulation”...and on just ONE graph out of the many that disprove your argument. It’s a case of intellectual dishonesty...
Actually I provided 2 or 3 graphs that made my case. Which graphs are you talking about that disproved my case?
 
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KCfromNC

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No, Trump was elected november of 2016. He immediately began having meetings with CEOs and business leaders telling of the coming changes of lower taxes and regulations when he gets into office. The market responded to that
This is an interesting story. Too bad the data doesn't bear it out - the plateau in unemployment numbers ended before the election.
 
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Arcangl86

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This is one of the graphs I was talking about. Notice how unemployment drops from 10% high in 2010 to leveling off at approx 5% in the middle of 2015, 4.5% - 5% was where it was prior to the recession. Notice how it remained there till near the end of 2016, Then it begins to drop to a record low after that. Guess who got elected near the end of 2016?
U.S. Unemployment Rate Drops To 3.7 Percent, Lowest In Nearly 50 Years
Even looking at your graph the plateau started to drop off again in mid 2016 and Trump didn't even start his administration until 2017, where there was actually a slight bump up before it started to drop again.
If you are gonna accuse me of saying something, you need to provide a link or post # when I said it. Your word isn't good enough.
I quoted you both times, but I see we are playing "I didn't use those exact words, so it doesn't count." Your exact words were, and this is the last time I'm quoting them,
When the economy is at it's worse and it has no place to go but up\
which has the obvious implication that the economy is the worst it's possible to be, which it wasn't.

Unemployment was twice as high during the recession as it usually is when the economy is healthy. When it recovers, it quickly returns to its typical healthy level. When it goes below it's typical healthy level, that's when things become noticeable. It didnt go below it's typical healthy level till Trump got into office.
Ok, but that didn't address my post, which was that the economy wasn't at the rock bottom that you seem to think it was at.
 
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Ken-1122

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which has the obvious implication that the economy is the worst it's possible to be, which it wasn't.
Where did I say things was were than the Great Depression? Where did I even compare it to the Great Depression? I didn't. If you remember, after the depression there were systems put in place to prevent such a thing from happening again. I don't know if it is even possible with the safeguards in place for something like that to ever happen again; so why would I make such a claim? I did not.
 
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