Romans Chapter 13

Eloy Craft said:

One can be subject yet dissenting regarding law.

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Supporting scripture?

SkyWriting said:

There is no evidence that Jesus considered the Jewish leadership to be a higher standard.

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True He didn't think too highly of the Jewish leadership but they were the governing authority of the people God called 'His own'. They received Divine Revelation and their religious expression and teaching was authentic. Their authority was endorsed by Jesus. The seat of Moses was the highest authority on earth wouldn't you say?


Matthew
23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; 3 therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach.

SkyWriting said:

Supporting scripture?

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Matthew 23:4
They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on the shoulders of others; but they themselves are unwilling to lift a finger to move them.

Eloy Craft said:

One can be subject yet dissenting regarding law.

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That's not regarding local law. That's regarding religious leaders to disdain their words and actions. The same with Peters comments.

8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all students. 9 And call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father—the one in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 All who exalt themselves will be humbled, and all who humble themselves will be exalted.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. For you do not go in yourselves, and when others are going in, you stop them. 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cross sea and land to make a single convert, and you make the new convert twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

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Eloy Craft said:

Here Jesus was referencing the Jewish leadership as the authority from above given to Pilate

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It was regarding the Father above. He mentions that earlier in the day as well.


51 And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant[g] of the high priest and cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?” 55 At that hour Jesus said to the crowds, “Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs to capture me? Day after day I sat in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me. 56 But all this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left him and fled.

Later:

John 19:11
Jesus answered him (Pilate), “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

SkyWriting said:

It was regarding the Father above. He mentions that earlier in the day as well.

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Not unless the Father committed a greater sin than Pilate.

?” 11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”

SkyWriting said:

That's not regarding local law. That's regarding religious leaders to disdain their words and actions. The same with Peters comments.

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The 'won't lift a finger" part that makes it about laws that need changed.

Matthew 23:4
They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on the shoulders of others; but they themselves are unwilling to lift a finger to move them.

Eloy Craft said:

The 'won't lift a finger" part that makes it about laws that need changed.

Matthew 23:4
They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on the shoulders of others; but they themselves are unwilling to lift a finger to move them.

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I've never argued that laws don't need to be changed.

Eloy Craft said:

Not unless the Father committed a greater sin than Pilate.

?” 11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”

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Judas turned against Jesus. Pilate was following the law as God intended.
That's why we have a savior for our sins, because local law is God's will.

SkyWriting said:

I've never argued that laws don't need to be changed.

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Your argument was about there being a biblical example of righteous dissent. Jesus is dissenting yet remains subject to the Jewish leaders.

SkyWriting said:

They responded that the church leaders had no authority over their legal actions.

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"When Jesus called the Pharisees “vipers” and threw the money-changers out of the Temple for their evil actions, was He repaying evil for evil? No, He was taking a stand for righteousness. He resisted evil rulers who were oppressing the people. His actions show that verbal accusations and physical force are sometimes necessary to stand for righteousness and to protect others."

Eloy Craft said:

Your argument was about there being a biblical example of righteous dissent. Jesus is dissenting yet remains subject to the Jewish leaders.

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Matthew 15:1-3
"1Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,

2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"