LDS One Essence

Andrewn said:

Do you mean that men and women who do not get married are punished by remaining as post-mortal spirits in heaven and never getting resurrected?

Click to expand...

Those who reject Mormonism and temple marriage are less worthy than those who choose temple marriage.They will be resurrected later than the more worthy to less glorious bodies (angels) that cannot produce spirit children. Marriage isn't the issue. Non-temple marriages end at death. The family unit is done away.

Doctrine and Covenants 132
15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
Doctrine and Covenants 132

CELESTIAL GLORY FOR THOSE WHO KEEP THE WHOLE LAW
To enter the celestial and obtain exaltation it is necessary that the whole law be kept.
The word of the Lord is that they of the celestial world are those sanctified from all unrighteousness. (D.C. 88:21, cf. verse 18.) To become sanctified there are certain definite covenants we must keep in faithfulness, living by "every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God." "They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, * * * That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto the power." These are they "who overcome by faith and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true." (D.C. 76:51-53. See also verses 54-60.) And they who are not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise and who are not just and true, need not expect their great blessings.
Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p.206
Celestial Glory is for Those Who Keep the Whole Law

Mormonism:
Those who will NEVER be resurrected are the devil and the angels who followed him. Those who earned mortality on earth will all be resurrected including Jeffrey Dahmer and Adolph Hitler.

Phoebe Ann said:

Joseph Smith, Jr. and followers abhor(ed) OSAS!

Earning eternal life depends on obedience to the laws and ordinances of Mormonism.

...
The Father of All Lies

From these verses it is clear that our Heavenly Father did not ask for volunteers to invent and present different and competing plans of salvation, as some have assumed. Rather, it was our Heavenly Father’s plan, and He presented it to His spirit children who were gathered in the Grand Council in Heaven. Jesus Christ, who was “chosen from the beginning” to be the Savior in that plan, humbly proposed that Heavenly Father’s plan be sustained, saying, “Father, thy will [i.e., plan] be done.” It was in this setting that Satan made an unwelcome and arrogant proposal to change Heavenly Father’s plan so that it provided universal salvation for everyone (see Moses 4:1). Before we discuss how he claimed to accomplish this, it is important to note that Satan is referred to in these verses as “the father of all lies” (Moses 4:4). On another occasion he is called “a liar from the beginning” (D&C 93:25). We would be absurdly naïve to assume that Satan was telling the truth when he made this exaggerated claim of universal salvation.
From these verses it is clear that our Heavenly Father did not ask for volunteers to invent and present different and competing plans of salvation, as some have assumed. Rather, it was our Heavenly Father’s plan, and He presented it to His spirit children who were gathered in the Grand Council in Heaven. Jesus Christ, who was “chosen from the beginning” to be the Savior in that plan, humbly proposed that Heavenly Father’s plan be sustained, saying, “Father, thy will [i.e., plan] be done.” It was in this setting that Satan made an unwelcome and arrogant proposal to change Heavenly Father’s plan so that it provided universal salvation for everyone (see Moses 4:1). Before we discuss how he claimed to accomplish this, it is important to note that Satan is referred to in these verses as “the father of all lies” (Moses 4:4). On another occasion he is called “a liar from the beginning” (D&C 93:25). We would be absurdly naïve to assume that Satan was telling the truth when he made this exaggerated claim of universal salvation.

If we understand Satan’s character and history, it would be more appropriate to view him as the first con man trying to sell us a product that he knew he could never provide. He alleged that he could give us all salvation if we would follow him rather than the plan our Heavenly Father had created for our salvation and which was upheld by our Savior Jesus Christ.

What Satan proposed was a lie. It would not have worked. It was not a viable alternative to Heavenly Father’s already perfect plan, but rather it was a trap set to ensnare and deceive people into following Satan. It was, in the end, a plan of damnation, not a plan of salvation.

Destroying Agency*
Importantly, these verses of scripture do not clearly state how Satan proposed to carry out this lie. All that the scriptures state is that it would “destroy the agency of man” (Moses 4:3). President J. Reuben Clark (1871–1961), First Counselor in the First Presidency, suggested two main possibilities for what Satan proposed to do and reminded us that neither would have worked. He explained: “As I read the scriptures, Satan’s plan required one of two things: Either the compulsion of … man, or else saving men in sin. I question whether the intelligence of man can be compelled. Certainly men cannot be saved in sin” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1949, 193; quoted in Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual [2010], 15).

Although neither of these possibilities would have worked, we see elements of each in Satan’s efforts and tactics today. For example, compulsion and force are used today by tyrants seeking power over nations and by political activists who seek to limit religious freedom and compel society to accept sinful behavior. The Lord has specifically condemned the exercise of “control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness” (D&C 121:37).

However, the Lord also explained that power and influence can be used to encourage righteousness by loving persuasion, righteous reproof, and appropriate consequences (see D&C 121:41–43). This important clarification shows that carrying out proper Church and parental discipline, enforcing rules and standards in missions and Church schools, and establishing righteous laws in society are all practices approved of the Lord and not part of “Satan’s plan.” Honoring agency does not mean embracing anarchy.
Satan’s Rebellion

*Free will

(Man's free will makes it possible for him to always have a choice to choose between good and evil. Even the temple sealings and the Second Annointing can be taken away because of disobedience.)

Sometimes Mormons say that OSAS teaches that no matter how you live and disobey, you are saved. That ignores the fact that we are made new creatures in Christ.
Soe

Click to expand...

If you were really a new creature in Christ you would act like Jesus at all times. Do you act like Jesus at all times?

Andrewn said:

This sounds like Christian beliefs in resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous.


This sounds like Christian beliefs that in the resurrection people are like angels, except that in LDS soteriology it is called the Terrestrial Kingdom, Right? What do you mean by "resurrected later?"


So, temple marriages continue in the Celestial Kingdom if people keep the law they become Gods and produce spirit offspring, Right? What do you know about marriage by proxy?

Click to expand...

Celestial marriage by proxy is currently being done for the dead who weren't LDS and therefore not sealed to their spouses in this life. It only takes effect for those non-Mormons who accept the [Mormon] gospel in the spirit world. Those worthy Mormons who didn't have the opportunity to have temple marriage in this life might have that opportunity in the Millennium(this is speculation because it's not in their scriptures).

"Proxy sealings, like proxy baptisms, are merely offered to the person in the afterlife. According to church teachings, the celestial marriage covenant, as with other covenants, requires the continued righteousness of the couple to remain in effect after this life....
"Celestial marriage is an instance of the LDS Church doctrine of sealing. Following a celestial marriage, not only are the couple sealed as husband and wife, but children born into the marriage are also sealed to that family. In cases where the husband and wife have been previously married civilly and there are already children from their union, the children accompany their parents to the temple and are sealed to their parents following the marriage ceremony."
Celestial marriage - Wikipedia

Andrewn said:

This sounds like Christian beliefs in resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous.

Click to expand...

In Mormonism, there are various outcomes/destinations:

Andrewn said:

This sounds like Christian beliefs that in the resurrection people are like angels, except that in LDS soteriology it is called the Terrestrial Kingdom, Right?

Click to expand...

They actually are angels in Mormonism (angels don't have wings) if they don't deserve godhood. There is a Telestial Kingdom also:

"The lowest of the three degrees of glory in which people will dwell after the Final Judgment.

• they that have no part in the first resurrection, Mosiah 15:26."
  Telestial Kingdom

D&C 76
81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.

82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.

83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.

84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.

85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.

86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;

87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial.

88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation.

89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;


101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.


109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;
110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;
111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;
112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.
Telestial Kingdom

We're nearing the end of tonight's post. Whew!

Andrewn said:

What do you mean by "resurrected later?"

Click to expand...

All people will not be resurrected to the same glory (1 Cor. 15:39–42; D&C 76:89–98), nor will all be resurrected at the same time (1 Cor. 15:22–23; Alma 40:8; D&C 76:64–65, 85; 88:96–102). Many Saints were resurrected after Christ’s Resurrection (Matt. 27:52). The righteous will be resurrected before the wicked and will come forth in the First Resurrection (1 Thes. 4:16); the unrepentant sinners will come forth in the last resurrection (Rev. 20:5–13; D&C 76:85).

• Though this body be destroyed, yet in my flesh shall I see God, Job 19:26 (Moses 5:10)
• Resurrection

Click on the above link to read more. When I open a thread about Mormon hell, there will be more information. Tomorrow I have a very busy day. Folks may have to wait.

Peter1000 said:

If you were really a new creature in Christ you would act like Jesus at all times. Do you act like Jesus at all times?

Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that Christians aren't following Christ? Are you attempting to correct God?

2 Corinthians 5
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Romans 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Andrewn said:

This part is about the Telestial Kingdom. Even after spending a long time in the Spirit Prison, they don't believe the Gospel. They're not sent into the Outer Darkness. Telestial Kingdom has its glory that surpasses all understanding; so why is it called hell? In what sense did they not deny the Holy Spirit? Is there a possibility of movement from one Kingdom to another? Please correct me.


The works referred to here, are they both in mortal life and in the Spirit Prison? If so, what kind of works are done in the latter? There is usually more information about the Resurrection Kingdoms but I like more info about the stage before: Paradise & Spirit Prison.

Click to expand...

You said: "This part is about the Telestial Kingdom. Even after spending a long time in the Spirit Prison, they don't believe the Gospel. They're not sent into the Outer Darkness. Telestial Kingdom has its glory that surpasses all understanding; so why is it called hell? In what sense did they not deny the Holy Spirit? Is there a possibility of movement from one Kingdom to another? Please correct me."

The Telestial Kingdom is not Hell also called the spirit prison. Hell is in the spirit world and is not for the resurrected beings. Denying the Holy Spirit is this:

(New Testament | Matthew 12:31 - 32)

31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
(New Testament | John 17:12)

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

More information can be found at:
Messages from the Doctrine and Covenants: The Three Degrees of Glory

Andrewn said:

What is it that LDS & JW believe in common? Are you talking about JW belief that 144,000 people go to heaven?

Click to expand...

No.

Andrewn said:

This part is about the Telestial Kingdom. Even after spending a long time in the Spirit Prison, they don't believe the Gospel. They're not sent into the Outer Darkness. Telestial Kingdom has its glory that surpasses all understanding; so why is it called hell? In what sense did they not deny the Holy Spirit? Is there a possibility of movement from one Kingdom to another? Please correct me.


The works referred to here, are they both in mortal life and in the Spirit Prison? If so, what kind of works are done in the latter? There is usually more information about the Resurrection Kingdoms but I like more info about the stage before: Paradise & Spirit Prison.

Click to expand...

I'll cover that under "Hell."

Read to here

Andrewn said:

What do LDS believe about Gehenna and the Lake of Fire?

Click to expand...

Gehenna and the Lake of Fire is an earthly example of Hell or spirit prison. Christ gave us another example:

(New Testament | Luke 16:19 - 31)

19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

And a warning:

(New Testament | Luke 13:27 - 28)

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.


We also have latter day revelation:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 19:4 - 24)

4 And surely every man must repent or suffer, for I, God, am endless.
5 Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my left hand.
6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.
7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name's glory.
8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.
9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.
10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—
11 Eternal punishment is God's punishment.
12 Endless punishment is God's punishment.
13 Wherefore, I command you to repent, and keep the commandments which you have received by the hand of my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., in my name;
14 And it is by my almighty power that you have received them;
15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.
20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit.
21 And I command you that you preach naught but repentance, and show not these things unto the world until it is wisdom in me.
22 For they cannot bear meat now, but milk they must receive; wherefore, they must not know these things, lest they perish.
23 Learn of me, and listen to my words; walk in the meekness of my Spirit, and you shall have peace in me.
24 I am Jesus Christ; I came by the will of the Father, and I do his will.

Andrewn said:

What do LDS believe about Gehenna and the Lake of Fire?

Click to expand...

Most of the imagery used in the Bible is metaphorical rather than literal.

Andrewn said:

If this punishment will be in the Spirit Prison, then it's not endless or eternal. It will cease when people are resurrected, unless they end up in the Outer Darkness.

The other observation is that some souls in the Spirit Prison will believe the Gospel and end up in the Terrestial Kingdom while others will not believe and will not be resurrected until after the Millennium and will end up in the Telestial Kingdom, and these are the majority. How come they don't believe despite all the evidence and the torment?

I remember reading that the current LDS understanding is that there is no graduation from one Kingdom to another. Is this true?

The other question is about the word Gospel. When you talk about the Gospel do you mean the Gospel to LDS or the Gospel as understood by the rest Christendom?

Click to expand...

What do you think this means?

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 19:6)

6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

I see it as always remembering the consequences of our actions after the torment is finished, but I could be wrong. As to whether there is any graduation from one kingdom to another:

1952: Joseph L Anderson, Secretary of the First Presidency

The brethren direct me to say that the Church has never announced a definite doctrine upon this point. Some of the brethren have held the view that it was possible in the course of progression to advance from one glory to another, invoking the principle of eternal progression; others of the brethren have taken the opposite view. But as stated, the Church has never announced a definite doctrine on this point.

Sincerely your brother, Joseph L Anderson, Secretary of the First Presidency” </ref>Joseph L. Anderson, Secretary to the First Presidency in a 1952 letter; and again in 1965.

We do believe in eternal progression. I believe that that progression may be slow or fast depending on the individual: Know this, that every soul is free to choose his life and what he’ll be; for this eternal truth is given that God will force no man to heaven.

Phoebe Ann said:

Are you suggesting that Christians aren't following Christ? Are you attempting to correct God?

Click to expand...

Yes, in fact most Christian do not follow Christ. If they did, the world would be a much different place. I am also saying that most members of the Church of Jesus Christ are not following Christ either.

Even on this forum you have not always told the truth about what we believe, I have corrected you many time. As you know, it is not good to bear false witness. I am going to think that you just forgot what you learned and said it wrongly rather than you wrote to deceive others and make us look bad.

But the question still stands, if you are a new creature in Christ, do you act like Christ all the time?

Do Christians attempt to correct God?

"Celestial marriage by proxy"

Can I make a list of women to send to the LDS Church to tie me to?