Who Changed Shabbat?

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For some reason you refuse to answer the question.

Do you honor the day of the new moon as a rest day, a day of festival, a day of sacrifice, and a day of worship.

I did answer your question.

What does "it's a day of worship, not of cessation," mean to you?

You have failed to demonstrate with scripture that it's a day of cessation.







"Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church." Ancient Christianity Exemplified, Lyman Coleman, Ch.26, sec. 2, p.527.

"Our Saturday. The custom to call the Lord's day Sabbath did not commence until a thousand years later." Adamnan's Life of Columba p.230, Dublin, 1857

"According to the Assyrian-Babilonian conception, the particular stress lay necessarily on the number seven...The whole week pointed prominently towards the seventh day, the feast day, the rest day, in this day it collected, in this day it also consumated. 'Sabbath' is dervied from both 'rest' and 'seven'. With the Egyptians it was the reverse...for them on the contrary the sun-god was the beginning and origin of all things. The day of the sun, Sunday, became necessarily for them the feast day...The holiday was transferred from the last to the first day of the week." Daglige Liv i Norden, Vol.XIII, pp.54,55.
 
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klutedavid

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But I could worship him at the gate in the morning and evening, before and after work.
No you can't because your out in the country side and no where near the gate
But I could celebrate it after work.
When Israel worships they do it together and they sit down and eat together. It is a day of rest and a perpetual one at that.
BTW those gates were destroyed. In my estimation we are in a new Tabernacle Period.
This is an extreme viewpoint and not aligned with the law.
 
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HARK!

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No you can't because your out in the country side and no where near the gate

Really? Show me on a map.

When Israel worships they do it together and they sit down and eat together.It is a day of rest and a perpetual one at that.

You still haven't presented scripture to prove that it's a day of cessation; but you're pretty handy at throwing your unsupported opinions out there; as though god himself had said it.

This is an extreme viewpoint and not aligned with the law.

Again your opinion, stated as fact.



"The seven planetary names of the days were at the close of the second century A.D., prevailing everywhere in the Roman Empire...This astrology originated in Egypt, where Alexandria now so loudly proclaimed it to all... 'The day of the sun' was the Lord's day, the chiefest and first of the week. The evil and fatal Saturn's day was the last of the week on which none could celebrate a feast.. Daglige Liv i Norden, Vol.XIII, pp.91,92

"This Sunday law constituted no real favoratism to Christianity..... It is evident from all his statuatory provisions that the Emperor during the time 313-323 with full consciousness has sought the realisation of his religeous aim: the amalgamation of heathenism and Christianity." -Dr. A.Chr. Bang - Kirken og Romerstaten (The Church and the Roman State) p.256. Christiania, 1879
 
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guevaraj

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That makes no sense whatsoever. The Earth rotates with sundown and sunrise at different times and places. So in you opinion, where is Eden...
Brother, I only get a longitude from the Sabbath in Israel to Eden and no latitude. I place it at 150.3 degrees West at the true International Date Line (IDL). One possible site could be "Maiao", but I could not confirm it using the Time Zone Converter tool in timeanddate.com to confirm a local sunrise when the Sabbath starts in Israel. What the Sabbath in Israel shows is that the International Date Line comes from all of us from the beginning: when God taught the human race to count the days with the week to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy; before humanity spread throughout the world. This tradition of counting days established the International Date Line without us appreciating its significance in our history until these last days. I have written a book on the subject, "Proof of God in the International Date Line: Site of our Origin", available on all major platforms.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

There is further confirmation of the first day in Genesis above established by God from first light to light again in the morning or from morning to morning in Leviticus as understood by “Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin”, although he sees it as an exception rather than the established first day in Genesis.

The meat of their fellowship offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the day it is offered; they must leave none of it till morning. (Leviticus 7:15 NIV)​

The Rabbi admits that the previous passage assumes a day from morning to morning, although he does not consider it as the first day established in Genesis, but as an exception in his comment below.

Also note that, in a certain sense, the celebration of the 15th is considered to be an extension of the 14th. How so? With regard to sacrifices, the verse states, “And the flesh of his thanksgiving peace offering shall be eaten on the day it is offered up; he shall not leave any of it over until morning.” In other words, if you were given one day to eat an offering, the day consisted of the daytime followed by its night (unlike all other purposes, for which Jewish calendar days consist of the night followed by the day). Thus, as far as sacrifices are concerned, the night after a sacrifice is brought is an extension of the day it is brought. Therefore, when it comes to the celebration of the Passover sacrifice, while it was eaten on the 15th, it was considered to be the same day as the 14th. (A Long Day, Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Rosh Kodesh is a day of rest and is not a Sabbath because it is the first day of the lunar month. Six days later you will have the seventh day which is a Sabbath day.

The first and the seventh days are always rest days every month, no work is to be done on those days.

Lunar calendars and solar, papal calendars, are different calendars. They have a different number of days with respect to each other.

You must cease work on the day of the new moon!

Again, they are not linked and never have been. It had nothing to do with when Shabbat is or was. Shabbat is a continuous cycle.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Brother, I only get a longitude from the Sabbath in Israel to Eden and no latitude. I place it at 150.3 degrees West at the true International Date Line (IDL). One possible site could be "Maiao", but I could not confirm it using the Time Zone Converter tool in timeanddate.com to confirm a local sunrise when the Sabbath starts in Israel. What the Sabbath in Israel shows is that the International Date Line comes from all of us from the beginning: when God taught the human race to count the days with the week to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy; before humanity spread throughout the world. This tradition of counting days established the International Date Line without us appreciating its significance in our history until these last days. I have written a book on the subject, "Proof of God in the International Date Line: Site of our Origin", available on all major platforms.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

There is further confirmation of the first day in Genesis above established by God from first light to light again in the morning or from morning to morning in Leviticus as understood by “Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin”, although he sees it as an exception rather than the established first day in Genesis.

The meat of their fellowship offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the day it is offered; they must leave none of it till morning. (Leviticus 7:15 NIV)​

The Rabbi admits that the previous passage assumes a day from morning to morning, although he does not consider it as the first day established in Genesis, but as an exception in his comment below.

Also note that, in a certain sense, the celebration of the 15th is considered to be an extension of the 14th. How so? With regard to sacrifices, the verse states, “And the flesh of his thanksgiving peace offering shall be eaten on the day it is offered up; he shall not leave any of it over until morning.” In other words, if you were given one day to eat an offering, the day consisted of the daytime followed by its night (unlike all other purposes, for which Jewish calendar days consist of the night followed by the day). Thus, as far as sacrifices are concerned, the night after a sacrifice is brought is an extension of the day it is brought. Therefore, when it comes to the celebration of the Passover sacrifice, while it was eaten on the 15th, it was considered to be the same day as the 14th. (A Long Day, Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Ah, I see, you have written a book.
 
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HARK!

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You must cease work on the day of the new moon!

You can't back that statement up with scripture; unless you're speaking specifically of Yom Teruah. Are you adding to scripture?





T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18, 1884. "I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church."

"The seventh-day Sabbath was...solmenised by Christ, and primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in a manner quite abolish the observations of it." - Dissertation on the Lord's Day pp. 33, 34, 44
 
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BobRyan

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Rosh Kodesh is a day of rest and is not a Sabbath because it is the first day of the lunar month. Six days later you will have the seventh day which is a Sabbath day. !

No text says the 7th day of every month is the Sabbath - as we all know. If you wanted to make that a scripture - you should quote one.

For all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" -- and also - at that time - after we have two earth-creation events we will also have "AND from New Moon to New Moon shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" -- two creation events... two memorials.

But that brings us back to the topic of this thread - and the 4th commandment?

1. No text says the 7th day of each month is the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment.
2. who changed the 4th commandment Sabbath - is the topic of this thread.

Feel free to join in the topic.
 
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BobRyan

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For some reason you refuse to answer the question.

Do you honor the day of the new moon as a rest day, a day of festival, a day of sacrifice, and a day of worship.

Do you ?

Do you honor the 4th commandment?
 
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BobRyan

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Do you work on the day of the new moon?

Do you honor the 4th commandment? Do you know anything about the subject of this thread that you would like to participate in?
 
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No I do not honor a day that was only given to Israel. Gentiles have never been asked by God to honor the Sabbath He gave only to Israel. Gentile ancestry were not captive in Egypt. God never led the gentiles out of Egypt. Deut 5: 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. They may have tagged along, but the reason God did it was for the offspring of Isaac. We all know the real truth, it is a shame some will not admit to it.
 
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HARK!

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No I do not honor a day that was only given to Israel.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."





"Because the Third Commandment (which is really the fourth commandment but Catholicism does away with the second commandment) depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead."- Pope John Paul II-DIES DOMINI-Dies Hominis v.18, May 31, 1998

Augsburg Confession of Faith art. 28; written by Melanchthon, approved by Martin Luther, 1530; as published in The Book of Concord of the Evangelical Lutheran Church "They [Roman Catholics] refer to the Sabbath Day, as having been changed into the Lord's Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!"
 
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guevaraj

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No I do not honor a day that was only given to Israel. Gentiles have never been asked by God to honor the Sabbath He gave only to Israel. Gentile ancestry were not captive in Egypt. God never led the gentiles out of Egypt. Deut 5: 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. They may have tagged along, but the reason God did it was for the offspring of Isaac. We all know the real truth, it is a shame some will not admit to it.
Brother, we are no longer Gentiles. We have "come in" to Israel and are "part" of "all Israel" then saved when Jesus returns. We are the "part" of Israel that excepted Jesus, who has the other part of Israel as our "enemies" until the full number of the Gentiles have "come in" to Israel, when the deliverer comes and takes away their sins and saves "all Israel". When Jesus returns, saved will be "all Israel", including the "part" of Israel that did not accept Jesus and will receive mercy for their disobedience, because of the mercy we received when they were obedient and we were Gentiles, before we "came in" to Israel.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. (Romans 11:25-31 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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HARK!

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Brother, we are no longer Gentiles. We have "come in" to Israel and are "part" of "all Israel"

th
 
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HARK!

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When Jesus returns, saved will be "all Israel", including the "part" of Israel that did not accept Jesus and will receive mercy for their disobedience

I don't know about this. That's up to the Father.

(CLV) Mt 10:33
Yet, who should ever be disowning Me in front of men, I also will be disowning him in front of My Father Who is in the heavens.




"The distinction of Sunday from the Jewish Sabbath grew ever stronger in the mind of the Church, even though there have been times in history when, because the obligation of Sunday rest was so emphasized, the Lord's Day tended to become more like the Sabbath. Moreover, there have always been groups within Christianity which observe both the Sabbath and Sunday as "two brother days"."-(v.23)Pope John Paul II-DIES DOMINI-Dies Hominis, May 31, 1998

"The ancient Christians were very careful in the observation of Saturday, or the seventh-day...It is plain that the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Anthanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assemblies on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same." - Antiquities of the Christian Church, Vol II, Book XX
 
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guevaraj

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I don't know about this.
Brother, God promised to save our children, saved will be "all Israel".

But this is what the LORD says: "Yes, captives will be taken from warriors, and plunder retrieved from the fierce; I will contend with those who contend with you, and your children I will save. (Isaiah 49:25 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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BobRyan

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No I do not honor a day that was only given to Israel. Gentiles have never been asked by God to honor the Sabbath .

Interesting speculation - but in the actual Bible we find this

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Isaiah 56:6-8
"“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares,
Yet others I will gather to them, to those already gathered.”

"every Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered for more gospel preaching Acts 18:4

As for rejecting the New Covenant given to Israel and the house of Judah-- well I don't choose to reject the New Covenant.

Jer 31:31-33
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Unchanged in the New Testament - Heb 8:6-11
 
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Bob S

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(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.
Under the old laws of the now defunct covenant

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
They all were lost from the beginning because we are all sinners. Jesus came to reclaim Judah and Israel according to Jeremiah's prophecy. Jesus decided to spread the Good News of salvation to all nations. That meant to the Gentiles too. Never in the new and everlasting covenant are we ever asked to observe any day. What the pope or anyone else did has nothing to do with the truth of what we read in the New Testament after Calvary. Either Paul is has it all wrong and you have the truth or vice versa. Paul tells us we are not under the laws of the Sinai covenant. This makes Sabbath "keeping" obsolete because it was a ritual or ceremonial law. In fact, any old covenant law that does not deal with moral issues Christian are not required to "keep". MORALITY IS FOREVER!
 
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BobRyan

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They all were lost from the beginning because we are all sinners. Jesus came to reclaim Judah and Israel

And that is why Moses and Elijah stand in glory with Christ before the Cross - in Matthew 17?

They "studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so" Acts 17:11

This is what Jesus actually said -

Mark 7
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;
 
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HARK!

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Either Paul is has it all wrong and you have the truth or vice versa. Paul tells us we are not under the laws of the Sinai covenant. This makes Sabbath "keeping" obsolete because it was a ritual or ceremonial law.

You've presented a false dichotomy. Another possibility is that you simply don't understand what Sha'ul was saying. It wouldn't be the first time that this has happened.

(CLV) 2Pt 3:16
as also in all the epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to apprehend, which the unlearned and unstable are twisting, as the rest of the scriptures also, to their own destruction.

Numerous New Testament examples show where people were intending to keep the Feasts, were keeping them, and would keep them again the in Kingdom. Those passages include: Luke 2:42; John 5:1; 7:2, 10, 14; 12:20; Matthew 26:2, 17, 29; Acts 18:21; and 1Corinthians 5:8.



Yahshua himself kept the feasts as he called us to follow his example.



May each of us be like the Apostle Paul when he said clearly and with total resolve, "I must by all means keep this Feast!"

Shabbat shalom
 
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