The Ghastly Eternal Torment Dogma

Saint Steven · Feb 14, 2020

nolidad said:
exomologeo is this:

Speech: Verb

Tense: Aorist

Voice: Middle

Mood: Subjunctive

Person: 3rd Person

Number: Singular

Subjunctive means only a possibility. and only means acknowledge!

Yes even Satan will be forced to acknowledge Jesus is Lord! Before He is cast forever into the lake of fire!

And yes the Holy Spirit will compel them to acknowledge. The same way Jesus compelled the demons he cast out to acknowledge who He was!

I gave you the definition from Strong's.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

DNB · Feb 14, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear DNB: NONSENSE!

Coming into union with the Glorious One is the work of the Holy One. It has nothing to do with the will of the flesh, NOTHING! ! !

The fact is ta pante means ALL, not some/tis, not monos or monon/only, the radical, radical ALL.

"God IS the Saviour of all mankind, especially all those who believe/trust into Him. Command this & teach this."

Sometimes I have no idea what you just said, ...at least in regard to the comment that i made?
Just come out and say it, that according to yourselves, Christ died for nothing.

DNB · Feb 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
It doesn't take much to "unhinge" some people. - lol

Seems like a ridiculous reaction to me. Just because of his long hair?

Considering that I knew the guy's name without watching the video, seems a bit ridiculous that you couldn't tell that i'm familiar with him, for more than his picture.

DNB · Feb 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Here's a guy with short hair. Maybe that would be more to your liking?

Bad Ideas 06: All Religions Lead To God In the multicultural world in which we live, surrounded by a thousand different religions and belief systems, are Christians arrogant for saying Jesus is unique? The bad idea “all religions to God” easily takes hold in such a culture. But why is it a bad idea? And more importantly, what precisely is unique about Jesus?

Well, according to Universalists, nothing is unique about Jesus. He's not even necessary for salvation, after all, all Buddhists and Muslims are equally saved as Paul, Peter, John & James.

Saint Steven · Feb 14, 2020

DNB said:
Just come out and say it, that according to yourselves, Christ died for nothing.

That was ABSOLUTELY uncalled for!

Saint Steven · Feb 14, 2020

DNB said:
Considering that I knew the guy's name without watching the video, seems a bit ridiculous that you couldn't tell that i'm familiar with him, for more than his picture.

And how was I supposed to know that?

Saint Steven · Feb 14, 2020

DNB said:
Well, according to Universalists, nothing is unique about Jesus. He's not even necessary for salvation, after all, all Buddhists and Muslims are equally saved as Paul, Peter, John & James.

Where did you get that nonsense? No one has said ANYTHING of the sort.

How about an intelligent question?

FineLinen · Feb 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
That was ABSOLUTELY uncalled for!

Dear Saint: This young lad is in dire need of an experience of transformation!

Saint Steven · Feb 14, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear Saint: This young lad is in dire need of an experience of transformation!

Agreed.

Philippians 2:3-5 ESV
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,

Der Alte · Feb 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
I gave you the definition from Strong's.
Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Strong's is a Concordance not a lexicon it has been found to have about 15,000 errors and omissions.
• Online Bible FAQ
Q:The Online Bible Strongs is not the same as my Exhaustive Strong’s Concordance. Why is that?
A: We used the Strong's system but the actual Greek and Hebrew to implement the numbers. By doing this we corrected about 15000 errors in the Strong's concordance.
Frequently Asked Questions - Online Bible Then click “The Online Bible Strongs is not the same as my Exhaustive Strong’s concordance.”
• Rebuilding Strong’s time-honored concordance from the ground up, biblical research experts John Kohlenberger and James Swanson have achieved unprecedented accuracy and clarity. Longstanding errors have been corrected. Omissions filled in. Word studies simplified. Thoroughness and ease of use have been united and maximized.
Zondervan Publishing the Strongest Strong’s.
Book Details - Zondervan
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=33430&event=ECF

ἐξομολογέω (s. next entry and ὁμολογέω) 1 aor. ἐξωμολόγησα; fut. mid. ἐξομολογήσομαι; aor. mid. ἐξωμολογησάμην LXX (quotable since III B.C.—Mitt-Wilck. II/2, 20, 18; 37, 17—PHib 30, 18 [300–271 B.C.]; also LXX, pseudepigr., Philo, Joseph.).
① to indicate acceptance of an offer or proposal, promise, consent, act., abs. Lk 22:6 (the act. is found as rarely [perh. Alex. Aphr., An. Mant. II 1 p. 168, 15] as the pass. [perh. SIG 685, 95]).
② to make an admission of wrong-doing/sin, confess, admit, mid. (Plut., Eum. 594 [17, 7], Anton. 943 [59, 3] τ. ἀλήθειαν, Stoic. Repugn. 17 p. 1042a; Sus 14; Jos., Bell. 1, 625, Ant. 8, 256) τὶ someth. (POslo 17, 14 [136 A.D.] τὸ ἀληθές; Cyranides p. 100, 18 πάντα ὅσα ἔπραξεν; Orig., C. Cels. 2, 11, 30 τὸ ἡμαρτημένον) τὰς ἁμαρτίας (Jos., Ant. 8, 129; s. the ins in Steinleitner, nos. 13, 5; 23, 2; 24, 11; 25, 10) Mt 3:6; Mk 1:5 (cp. 1QS 1:24–26); Js 5:16 (s. PAlthaus, Zahn Festgabe 1928, 1ff); Hv 1, 1, 3; Hs 9, 23, 4. τὰς ἁ. τῷ κυρίῳ confess sins to the Lord Hv 3, 1, 5, cp. 6. τὰ παραπτώματα ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ confess transgressions in the congregation D 4:14. περὶ τῶν παραπτωμάτων make a confession of transgressions 1 Cl 51:3. ἐπὶ τ. ἁμαρτίαις for sins B 19:12. Abs. make a confession of sins Ac 19:18; 2 Cl 8:3. W. dat. of the one to whom sins are confessed 1 Cl 52:1, 2 (w. similarity in form to Ps 7:18; 117:19 and sim. Ps passages, but not=praise because of 1 Cl 51:3 [s. 4 below]).—JSchnitzer, D. Beichte im Lichte d. Religionsgesch.: Ztschr. f. Völkerpsychol. 6, 1930, 94–105; RPettazzoni, La confessione dei Peccati II ’35.
③ to declare openly in acknowledgment, profess, acknowledge, mid. (PHib 30, s. above; POxy 1473, 9; Lucian, Herm. 75) w. ὅτι foll. Phil 2:11 (Is 45:23; s. 4 below).—Nägeli 67.
④ fr. the mngs. ‘confess’ and ‘profess’ there arose, as Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 252 shows, the more general sense to praise, in acknowledgment of divine beneficence and majesty (so mostly LXX; TestJob 40:2 πρὸς τὸν πατέρα ) w. dat. of the one praised (oft. LXX; TestSol 1:5; Philo, Leg. All. 1, 80) σοί (2 Km 22:50; 1 Ch 29:13; Ps 85:12; 117:28 al.; Did., Gen. 60, 20) Mt 11:25=Lk 10:21 (s. Norden, Agn. Th. 277–308; JWeiss, GHeinrici Festschr. 1914, 120ff; TArvedson, D. Mysterium Chr. [Mt 11:25–30] ’37; NWilliams, ET 51, ’40, 182–86; 215–20; AHunter, NTS 8, ’62, 241–49); Ro 15:9 (Ps 17:50); 1 Cl 26:2; 61:3; B 6:16 (cp. Ps 34:18). τῷ θεῷ (Tob 14:7; Philo, Leg. All. 2, 95) Ro 14:11 (Is 45:23); τῷ κυρίῳ (fr. Gen 29:35 on, oft. in LXX) 1 Cl 48:2 (Ps 117:19); Hm 10, 3, 2.—DELG s.v. ὁμός. M-M. EDNT. TW. Sv.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 351). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Links to BDB and BAGD lexicons online.
https://archive.org/details/BDBHebrewLexicon
http://lareopage.free.fr/a&g/main.htm

FineLinen · Feb 14, 2020

The Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord Iésous died for nothing? ? ?

“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

NOTHING!

Not death.
Not life.
Not angels.
Not powers.
Not the present/ not the future.
No power.

mmksparbud · Feb 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Better check your definition of "cessationism". Doesn't apply here. IMHO

Restorationism has been around since the early church fathers. Origen was criticized by the western/Latin church. And Restorationism is still an optional belief in Eastern Orthodoxy. The Latin church dominated the Christian landscape. Protestantism brought the doctrine of hell with it.

It obvious that you guys do not know Greek---nor history, not doing too well with English either as far as I'm concerned. Everlasting burning hell was a well taught doctrine of the Catholic church, long before Protestantism came into view. Seems like everything you guys know comes from some book, certainly not from the bible. You're simply mouthing the believe of others. Cloaked in totally wrong definitions of Greek words.

Saint Steven · Feb 14, 2020

mmksparbud said:
It obvious that you guys do not know Greek---nor history, not doing too well with English either as far as I'm concerned. Everlasting burning hell was a well taught doctrine of the Catholic church, long before Protestantism came into view. Seems like everything you guys know comes from some book, certainly not from the bible. You're simply mouthing the believe of others. Cloaked in totally wrong definitions of Greek words.

Other than that, you think we are pretty awesome, right? - lol

I'm calling the Catholic Church the "western/Latin church" or "the Latin church".
Hope that clears it up for you.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Better check your definition of "cessationism". Doesn't apply here. IMHO

Restorationism has been around since the early church fathers. Origen was criticized by the western/Latin church. And Restorationism is still an optional belief in Eastern Orthodoxy. The Latin church dominated the Christian landscape. Protestantism brought the doctrine of hell with it.

Der Alte · Feb 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
....The Latin church dominated the Christian landscape. Protestantism brought the doctrine of hell with it.

Actually the early Jewish converts to Christianity brought the doctrine hell with them.
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom, hades and gehenna in the NT.
…..There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were differing beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this verse would be about 700 BC +/-]

[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]

(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.

When Jesus taught e.g.,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3X Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12

…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4

…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs?

DNB · Feb 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
And how was I supposed to know that?

Because I called him by name, and told you that i didn't watch the video.
Seriously?

DNB · Feb 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Where did you get that nonsense? No one has said ANYTHING of the sort.

How about an intelligent question?

ok, so what is it then? Because Jesus died, therefore every single person that ever lived throughout history, including Tiny Tim and Groucho Marx, every Buddhist, Satanist & Zoroastrian, including Satan and all his devils themselves, will unconditionally and unequivocally, be saved.
In other words, Jesus simply came and unlocked the gates of hell? That was the only requirement for God? After that, whether one knows that Christ saved them, or thinks that it was someone else eg: Mohammed, is irrelevant, the gates of hell are unlocked?

DNB · Feb 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
That was ABSOLUTELY uncalled for!

Then let me repeat it. So, according to Universalists, Christ has no bearing on anyone's salvation, because belief in him is not requisite for absolution from one's sin. Therefore, Christ died for nothing?

FineLinen · Feb 15, 2020

DNB said:
ok, so what is it then? Because Jesus died, therefore every single person that ever lived throughout history, including

Dear DNB: There is exactly ONE/1 way into the Master of the ALL, the Lord Iésous. In includes the mass "made sinners" transformed by the Glorious One, the Last Adam!

Adam one = many made sinners transformed by the Last Adam into "many made righteous."

Saint Steven · Feb 15, 2020

DNB said:
ok, so what is it then? Because Jesus died, therefore every single person that ever lived throughout history, including Tiny Tim and Groucho Marx, every Buddhist, Satanist & Zoroastrian, including Satan and all his devils themselves, will unconditionally and unequivocally, be saved.

No.

No one said anything about "unconditionally and unequivocally".

Der Alte · Feb 15, 2020

Saint Steven said:
No.
No one said anything about "unconditionally and unequivocally".

No? What are the conditions/requirements, if any, for the unrighteous dead in sheol. Gehenna, hell whatever to be saved?

The Ghastly Eternal Torment Dogma

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