Who Changed Shabbat?

Bob S said:

The topic of this thread is "Who Changed the Sabbath" The answer is: no one. Only God could change what He gave exclusively to Israel.

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guevaraj said:

Brothers, the Scriptures define their own terms, the following two passages are sufficient to reveal the meaning of the two words: evening and morning.

It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NIV)​

The above passage shows a Sabbath in Israel consists of the two half periods named “night” and “day” below and contained above within the confined period from evening to evening. When chained with the following passage, the meaning of the two words as instance transitions of the periods named by God is clear. The word evening is the instance transition from day to night and the word morning is the instance transition from night to day.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

The words "day" and "night" name the two half periods of the first day. The words "evening" and "morning" are used to transition between the previous half periods of the first day. Just as evening to evening confine a Sabbath in Israel, from morning to morning confine a Sabbath in Eden. Summary statements follow:

• the half first day God called day: <morning>day<evening>
• the half first day God called night: <evening>night<morning>
• the Sabbath in Israel: <evening>night<morning>day<evening>
• the Sabbath in Eden: <morning>day<evening>night<morning>

Moving from the translated word above to their meaning based on the sun below.

1. morning means sunrise
2. evening means sunset
3. from sunrise to sunset is the period God called "day"
4. from sunset to sunrise is the period God called "night"
5. from sunset to sunset is the period to remember the Sabbath in Israel
6. from sunrise to sunrise is the period of the first Sabbath in Eden

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Wat on earth are you talking about? Yom Kippur is on the 10th...

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guevaraj said:

Brother, what I am saying is that the Sabbath is not a day of the week, composed of part of the sixth day and part of the seventh day in Israel, when it was a complete seventh day in Eden as defined in Genesis from morning to morning. The first day is from the first light to light again in the morning or from morning to morning until the first Sabbath from morning to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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Yeshua HaDerekh said:

It is on the 7th day. It begins at sundown and ends at sundown. It has been this way for 1000s of years...

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guevaraj said:

Brother, the Sabbath is the seventh day in Eden, but not in Israel, where it occupies part of the sixth day and part of the seventh day as defined in Genesis. The first day is from the first light to light again in the morning or from morning to morning until the first Sabbath from morning to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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guevaraj said:

Brother, it is correct in Israel because God gave direct instructions that were "assumed" in the same way everywhere, when Genesis shows that those instructions are specific to Israel and are not correct in Eden, where the first Sabbath was from the morning until the next morning again. Humans "assumed" something that the Scriptures show is wrong, the Sabbath is not equal to the seventh day of the week in places other than Eden. For example, in Israel the Sabbath occupies part of the sixth day and part of the seventh day as defined in Genesis, where the days are from morning to morning and not from evening to evening.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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HARK! said:

Do you understand that these verses are referring to Yom Teruah?

Vayikra (Leviticus) 23:23-25 YHWH said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites: 'On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with shofar blasts. Do no regular work, but present an offering made to YHWH by fire.

Bamidbar (Numbers) 29:1 "'On the first day of the seventh month hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. It is a day for you to sound the shofarot.

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BobRyan said:

But it was not the first day or the 7th day of the week -- no Bible text says that the day of the new moon is "the first day of the week" or any such thing regarding "the week". That fact - does not change.




No Bible text says that -- as we both know.

And this is the whole point on that topic - saying things "as if" it were a Bible text when in fact you are merely "quoting you" engaged in inference and a bit of extreme extrapolation with many leaps of logic.

Fine you have free will - and can choose to do it.

But how is that in any way remotely "compelling" for the rest of us??

Thankfully the "Baptist Confession of faith" does not make that mistake when it comes to the 7 day week, nor does the "Westminster Confession of faith" make that mistake - nor do Jews make that mistake when it comes to the 7 day week... in fact it is pretty hard to find a tiny little group that would make such a mistake.

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HARK! said:

I don't ignore the new moon; but how would that throw out my timing for the seventh day Shabbat; when the seven day cycle is independent of the moon?


"The first matter concerned a keeping holy of Saturday. It had come to the earth of the archbishop that people in different places of the kingdom had ventured the keeping holy of Saturday. It is strictly forbidden- it is stated- in the Church-Law, for any one to keep or adopt holy-days. outside of those which the pope,archbishop, or bishops appoint." - speaking of the Church Council held at Bergen, Norway in the year 1435, The History of the Norwegian Church under Catholicism, R. Keyser, Vol II, p 488. Oslo: 1858.

"It will surely be far safer to observe the seventh day, according to express commandment of God, than on the authority of mere human conjecture to adopt the first."- Jihn Milton, Sab. Lit. pp 46-54.

"Thus we see Dan. 7 , 25, fulfilled, the little horn changing 'times and laws'. Therefore it appears to me that all who keep the first day for the Sabbath are Pope's Sunday-keepers and God's Sabbath-breakers."- American Elder T.M. Preble, Feb 13 1845.

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Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Rosh Kodesh...but had nothing to do with when Shabbat is or was

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HARK! said:

No I don't.

You need to specify where in the Torah it states that we are not to work on any New Moon other than that of the seventh month.

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HARK! said:

No I don't.

You need to specify where in the Torah it states that we are not to work on any New Moon other than that of the seventh month.

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HARK! said:

Why? It's a day of worship, not of cessation; that is unless you're talking about Yom Teruah.

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HARK! said:

Why? It's a day of worship, not of cessation; that is unless you're talking about Yom Teruah.

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