Lets vote for the Bible to be our form of government- #vote for God

PloverWing said:

You say that it wouldn't be one sect running the government, but you also say "fundamentalism", and the people in your list of 12 mostly come from one particular type of Evangelical or Fundamentalist Protestant Christianity. Hanegraaff has become Eastern Orthodox, so that gives the list a little variety, but otherwise I'm seeing a very narrow type of Christianity running the government.

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yes fundamentalism is growing more and more narrow I agree. But it's not one sect of christianity running it, fundamentalism is by definition not a sect but raw literal christianity at it's core.

This is one of the big problems with a so-called theocracy. If God himself were leading the country -- God directly speaking to us, in a way that everyone could agree that it was God speaking (big booming voice?) -- then that's something I would consider. But that's not what you're proposing. You're proposing that you (or someone like you), accompanied by your circle of 12, would be the spokesman of God for the country. I do not trust you to be the voice of God.

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yes as this view becomes more popular I would hope someone with more knowledge and/or ability would take the Helm. But I am available should the Lord use me in such fashion. But ultimately it would be like 24 advisors 12 for apologetics, and 12 for systematic theology.

GACfan said:

The Handmaid's Tale came to my mind while reading the posts advocating for a dominating Christian theocracy. We could end up with a tyrannical religious government similar to the Republic of Gilead.

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Again theocracy has never existed, NEVER has the Bible been instituted as Law. Yes a certain church has been in leadership of a country, I look at the vatican as one, there have been a hand ful of others, orthodox churches in many countries in europe are state religions, this would not be a state religion. This would be a theocracy, God would literally run the government. Not a church, but God Himself.

lsume said:

I believe that The Word of God Tells us what is going to happen period. Any man made attempt at legislating government through The Bible would fail just as organized churches have fallen away from the Gospel. The sinful nature of man mandates failure at all of his attempts at self governance. The individual Christian must walk as worthy as possible at all times by Grace through Faith. There is a great example of this in history. I’m confident that with prayer you will quickly understand.

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oh yes all is prophecied as to what will happen I am very well aware of this, and by the way I have prayed dozens of prayers regarding this thing, nothing violates by Christian concience as to having the Bible be legislated in it's entirety. As long as we isolate old covenant and new covenant. It will be a transitory type of government, some laws of Bible will become civil law. In the millenium instead of the law becoming civil law it will actually be salvific law. You must follow the law in the millenium to be saved, if you are a gentile nation in blessing. Christians, and Jews converted to christian during the church age, the age of grace will be rulling and reigning with Christ. But the only thing that makes christians and jews authoritative in such manner is the grace of God as found during that age of grace. Grace will not always be grace, in fact in the millenium the Jews will reinstitute old testament sacrifice.

There is sort of an overall lack of knowledge as to what Christ's kingdom is, it's not an age of grace, here is more on it from a theological journal:

"
THE LAW ENFORCED IN DEPTH
The Law will be fulfilled in the millennial kingdom by the enforcement of every one of its commands, however small and seemingly unimportant, but that is not all. It will also be enforced in depth. That is to say,
the enforcement will not just be in terms of the letter of the Law. The
Law will be enforced in terms of its in-depth implications.
Jesus superbly illustrates the in-depth enforcement of the Law in
Matt 5:21-22:
You have heard that it was said to those of old, “You shall not
murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.” But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother
without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, “Raca!” shall be in danger of the
council. But whoever says, “You fool!” shall be in danger of
hell fire.”
There will never have been a time or place in human history like this.
If a person gets mad at his brother without good reason, he will be prosecuted for it. Or if he says to him, “Raca” (“You idiot”), it is possible he
will go before a jury.
However, this is the future King speaking. He is still talking about
how things will be in His kingdom.
The OT Law forbade murder. Behind murder there almost always
lies some form of anger. In the millennial kingdom, judgment will not be
executed on murder alone, but on anger itself, thus fulfilling the implications of the Law.
If a citizen of the kingdom expresses unjustifiable anger against a
fellow citizen he will be in danger of the judgment. The words in danger
of translate the Greek word enochos and this word can be rendered answerable to. A court hearing is implied in which the citizen would be
convicted of a misdemeanor.
Law and Grace in the Millennial Kingdom
35
If the anger is expressed in an insulting way, so that a person calls
his fellow citizen something like an “idiot,” that person is answerable to
“the council,” a functional equivalent of a jury, where the offense is a
felony.
If the verbal abuse rises to the level of “You fool,” the offense is
punishable by banishment to Gehenna for a capital offense.
Bear in mind that at His Second Coming, the King will banish the
Beast and the False Prophet—still alive—into the lake of fire (Rev
19:20). It follows that anyone else in His kingdom can be banished to the
same place if the King commands it.
The word enochos is used for all three cases that Jesus is illustrating.
This implies that some flexibility may be used in assessing these penalties. That does not affect the obvious point. Jesus is describing a strict
enforcement of the Law that is far above and beyond anything mankind
has ever known before.
Jesus is not talking about glorified people in the kingdom. They, of
course, will be unable to sin in any way. He is talking about the type of
ordinary person who might be among the many that will participate in
the rebellion of Gog and Magog.
In fact, after a thousand years of the kind of government our Lord
describes, the world will be ripe for a revolt. When Satan is released
from the Abyss at the end of the Millennium, is it any wonder that he
will find a large response to his call for rebellion? Millions of people will
be only too ready to overthrow this unbearably strict King. They will no
longer wish to be ruled with a rod of iron (Ps 2:9; Rev 2:26-27)!
V. ESTABLISHING THE LAW
In Rom 3:31, Paul echoes what Jesus taught in Matt 5:17-19. He
writes that faith establishes the Law. To suggest that righteousness or
eternal salvation can occur on anything less than a perfect fulfillment of
the Law, is to subvert the unity, the integrity and the seriousness of the
Law. However, if no one can fulfill the whole Law, righteousness must
come by faith. Faith validates the integrity of the entire Law.
This idea is also clearly expressed by James when he writes in Jas
2:10: “For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one
point, he is guilty of all.”
To put it very simply, you are either a law-keeper or a lawbreaker.
You don’t have to break every statute in the state of Texas to go to jail.
Do you have any idea how many prisoners in Texas jails might say to
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Journal of the Grace Evangelical Society
Spring 2007
you, “I just made one mistake”? So what? “Just one mistake” can be
good for life in prison.
If God’s Law is to have full integrity and be taken with full seriousness, we cannot say of even the smallest command, “Oh well, that command doesn’t matter very much!”
If a person in the kingdom of heaven ignores even the smallest
commandments and teaches others to do the same, he deserves to be
relegated to the bottom of the societal ladder.
If the kingdom honors the Law down to its smallest requirement,
then it follows that no ordinary righteousness can be adequate for entrance into that kingdom. In fact, that is what Jesus affirms when he says
in Matt 5:20, “For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds
the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means
enter the kingdom of heaven.”
The scribes and Pharisees were at that time the arbiters of the Law in
its strictest form. They insisted on its strict observance and they were
punctilious in observing it. To all appearances they were paragons of
righteousness in Israel. (Jesus had not yet begun to excoriate them for
their hypocrisy.)
Jesus affirms even their righteousness is inadequate for entrance into
the super-strict realm of His future kingdom. The ordinary hearer of the
Sermon on the Mount might well despair when he heard this statement.
And that was just the point. If His audience thought in terms of a
works-righteousness obtained by keeping the Law, their case was hopeless. That hopelessness, in fact, was precisely what the Law was designed to produce in people. Paul makes this clear to us in Rom 3:20
when he writes: “Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Having said this, he proceeds to write in Rom 3:21-22: “But now the
righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by
the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith
in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.”
Obviously it is that righteousness, and only that righteousness, to
which Jesus is referring to in Matt 5:20. When He speaks of a righteousness that exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees He is
talking about a perfect righteousness. It is exactly such a righteousness
that is imputed to the believer in Jesus. This alone is adequate for entrance into God’s kingdom. In fact, it is adequate precisely because it is
the very righteousness of God Himself.
Law and Grace in the Millennial Kingdom
37
If man contemplates entrance into the kingdom on the basis of some
form of imperfect righteousness, he demeans the Law. To think and
teach like that is to subvert the Law and to degrade its seriousness and
integrity.
Neither Jesus Himself nor Paul ever did that.
VI. CONCLUSION
The Sermon is contained in Matthew 5–7 and can be read in less than
thirty minutes. It is obviously greatly condensed by Matthew. Given the
large audience (Matt 5:1), it is likely that in its original form it took a
couple of hours. Matthew has condensed it for his Christian readership
and he has no need to spell out what righteousness Jesus was referring to.
In his day—if not in ours—Christians knew what this righteousness must
be. In the Sermon on the Mount, did Jesus ever explain what righteousness He was talking about in Matt 5:20? There is no way to know.
If Jesus did not explain what this righteousness was, then His Sermon is a masterpiece of pre-evangelism. Using the Law for the very purpose God intended, Jesus’ affirmation of its complete integrity could
only serve to bring deep conviction of sin to his unregenerate hearers.
If, as I suspect (based on 7:13-14), Jesus did explain this righteousness toward the end of the Sermon, then His message served as a powerful evangelistic tool. Either way, Jesus was fishing for men.
Matthew’s presentation for his Christian audience is very effective as
well. We, like the disciples mentioned in 5:1, are sitting at Jesus’ feet to
learn something about the righteousness of His future kingdom. And
having seen its superlative standards of holiness, we can aim for these in
our present Christian life.
After all, didn’t Paul write in Rom 8:3-4:
For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the
flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh that
the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us
who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the
Spirit.
Even this goal does not place us under the Law. Yet, contrary to the
opinion of many, the Law has not been done away with. Jesus did not
come to destroy it. Instead, as believers who have been united with
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Journal of the Grace Evangelical Society
Spring 2007
Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, we have passed out of the
sphere to which the Law applies.
Mark this well; removal from the Law’s sphere affects only those
who have been baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ.
Thereby they have been co-crucified with Christ and raised to live a resurrection life in Him. Paul says this plainly in Gal 2:19-20:
For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. I
have been crucified with Christ: it is no longer I who live, but
Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh, I
live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for Me.
This is the true status of all who are a part of the Body of Christ. Just
as soon as the Church is removed by the Rapture, the Law will again be
in force for God’s people. First it will be in force for the believing Jews
of the Tribulation period, as Jesus makes clear in Matthew 24. After His
kingdom is established, it will be in force for the whole world.
And in the kingdom, as the Law is enforced in all its details, men
will be able to learn the lesson it was always intended to convey: “by the
deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is
the knowledge of sin” (Rom 3:20).
Those who learn this lesson in the kingdom will have the opportunity
to believe in the King for eternal life. Those who do not learn it will be
candidates for the rebellion of Gog and Magog.

Resha Caner said:

Sigh.

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I have that wrong I think, scholars are sort of divided but I think soteriology will be similar to Lordship salvation

Jamdoc said:

I know, as soon as I saw the word "dispensation" where his idea was coming from suddenly made sense.. didn't it?

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angelkiss said:

This seems to be a carnal viewpoint. Hence, the concerns I stated earlier and why it won't work.
His kingdom is already here. Each one who accepts Christ into their hearts becomes a part of His kingdom. With that acceptance, we are already preparing.....for judgement.

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Thanks for the comments I adhere to a soft dispensationalism not a hyper dispensationalism. But the only other real alternative is covenant theology which has been shown among covenant theologians themselves like John Piper to be a more liberal interpretation, even piper himself admits that dispensationalism is more literal than covenant and the new covenant theologies put out by seminaries today. So that really says all that I need to know. I desire to read what the Bible says not way man says that it says so the literal approach is the way to go, ammillenialism is relatively easy to disprove as being a more liberal interpretation and not the "literal" viewpoint to have.

duplicate

Jonathan Walkerin said:

I meant the other guys who want to be religious dictators. You know you could very well be God`s chosen to implement "theocrazy" after all so of course this does not apply to you.

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I am ok with not everyone agreeing with, but we could be kinder. And it does get confusing who is talking to who, my bad. But it's very ok that people are not all the same. God created us all different to have unique qualities. So I try not to let others views offend me.

Jamdoc said:

Okay so, salvation by grace, has always been what saved people. Was Abraham the liar saved by the law? No. Was David the murderer and Adulturer? No. The old covenant was the promise by God, to give to the Israelites, the land of Israel, and prolong their days on earth, and bless them if they lived according to His law. #1 They demonstrated that humans are completely incapable of living according to the law even if their own life depended on it, not in this state, not with this sin nature and not in this flesh. #2. There was no promise of eternal life, salvation, or heaven given to Moses. Old Testament Saints and Prophets like Job, David, Isaiah and Daniel certainly had a sense of afterlife and eternal life and bodily resurrection even, but that was not through the law, but it was their faith. It's consistent and it always will be consistent, even when Jesus does rule the Millennium Kingdom with a rod of iron, those natural body people in the Millennium will still be saved by grace, but they may die, either of old age, or from punishment for transgressions. That's why there is a second resurrection at the end of the 1000 years in Revelation 20. That's why there's the throne of judgement and the book of life open because some people will become saved during the Millennium, as there will be new children born then as Isaiah 65 shows, and people who came to believe due to the testimonies of the two witnesses and the 144,000.
It's not a "different dispensation" of pre law, under the law, under grace, and now under the law again or anything like that.
Salvation has always been grace, because we won't be capable of living under the law until we are made new.
Then we'll be able to obey every letter of the law Jesus commands.
Until then, we're fallible. Try to please God as best you can, but ultimately we're going to fall short.

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I agree with the part about the millenium, but what was the point of temple sacrifice in leviticus if moses and everyone was saved by faith? Sort of contradictory isn't it? I know that sacrifice didn't remove sin, or atone but it covered sin so that if they died they went to Abrahams bosom and not hades, so that is different than saying they had a faith in someone who would not yet come on the scene for thousands of years and somehow that THAT faith saved them. Abraham could have had a vision of Christ and had faith another way, but I don't think Faith in God's existence at that point would have saved Him. Satan after all believes God exists. Some believe in a gospel message in the stars, and that has some following, I don't know enough about it.

Quartermaine said:

still waiting for a response. What will you do with people like me?

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I don't know what you mean. Of course the Bible will be legislated as well as some old testament principles, such as tithing, sabbath keeping, jubilee 7 year, and 50 year jubilee, as well as a year of rest for agriculture. Right now most of the ten commandments will be legislated, but not fully sure, that is debatable. For example how to you legislate someone to only worship "one God." Well you can't So that commandment would not be rigid. But things like, don't kill, don't steal. Abortion would be outlawed. And baby boxes would be put up in every fire house in the nation, for people who can't afford to take care of them. But I don't know what you mean.