IS THE WILL OF HUMANS CONTROLLED BY GOD?

CharismaticLady · Feb 12, 2020

Si_monfaith said:
If humans have a will which is free, is there assurance it will agree with God's will & is there assurance of God's plan being fulfilled?

Two different things. Man has free will and there is no assurance it will agree with God's will seeing as not everyone is saved, but it is not God's will that any should perish.

timothyu · Feb 12, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
Man has free will and there is no assurance it will agree with God's will

True. Man has an aversion to putting others before self.,

Dorothy Mae · Feb 12, 2020

Si_monfaith said:
Is the will of humans controlled by God?

God clearly says in His word that people did (and do) things not in his will. It’s usually called sin.

Dorothy Mae · Feb 12, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
Two different things. Man has free will and there is no assurance it will agree with God's will seeing as not everyone is saved, but it is not God's will that any should perish.

Do you think the “saved”
do his will 24/7?

Dorothy Mae · Feb 12, 2020

timothyu said:
God has a plan but He does not micro-manage. he simply knows that our focus on self interest and the misuse of the knowledge of good and evil will eventually lead to our destruction. He allowed that to happen to weed out those smart enough to understand His will over our own is the route to take,. He could have snuffed us out twice (or any time) but instead let us learn from our failures. Of course most don't, thinking everything is under His control, not ours, a cop out to taking responsibility for our own actions and failures. A step further from those who only blame things on the devil.

So it hinges on being smart enough? I thought it hinges on repentance.

Dorothy Mae · Feb 12, 2020

HTacianas said:
No, that's not what I mean to say. It is clear that God has his plan, and that he will accomplish it. That dispels the idea of Open Theism. But the most minor details of how that plan is carried out we can only speculate about. That dispels the strictest ideas of predestination.

I think it’s more accurate to say God has a plan and whosoever will can be a part of it.

timothyu · Feb 12, 2020

Dorothy Mae said:
So it hinges on being smart enough? I thought it hinges on repentance.

Repentance is change. Rejection of the oppressive self serving will of man to the giving will of God. If slaves, servants and women in Jesus' time could figure that out it wasn't such a reach.

Thomas White · Feb 12, 2020

Dorothy Mae said:
So it hinges on being smart enough? I thought it hinges on repentance.

Repentance is the realization.

CharismaticLady · Feb 12, 2020

Dorothy Mae said:
Do you think the “saved”
do his will 24/7?

Seeing as we must endure to the end, I see our 'salvation' as fluid during our life, and finalized on our death. It is the prize at the end of the race, not given at the beginning of the race. But that being said, Jesus gives us His Spirit to dwell in us to empower us to change our old desires from sinful to righteous.

1 John 3:18-24 tell us that our assurance is based on keeping the commandments of Jesus and being pleasing in His sight. We must abide in Jesus and He in us. We can't just know about Him and not keep His commandments and think that we will be allowed into heaven. Only the righteous and holy will be accepted. Revelation 22:11

HTacianas · Feb 12, 2020

Dorothy Mae said:
I think it’s more accurate to say God has a plan and whosoever will can be a part of it.

That leads us to a question brought up by Romans 8:

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Did God predestine some to love Him, or predestine those who would love Him?

CharismaticLady · Feb 13, 2020

HTacianas said:
Did God predestine some to love Him, or predestine those who would love Him?

A little of both I think. God predestined one nation to be His chosen people, but not all those who were among the predestined actually loved Him. The children of Israel were God's elect, yet some were cut off due to unbelief. Gentiles are not predestined, but foreknown.

HTacianas · Feb 13, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
A little of both I think. God predestined one nation to be His chosen people, but not all those who were among the predestined actually loved Him. The children of Israel were God's elect, yet some were cut off due to unbelief. Gentiles are not predestined, but foreknown.

That might be a good way to put it. From the Confession of Dositheus:

We believe the most good God to have from eternity predestinated unto glory those whom He has chosen, and to have consigned unto condemnation those whom He has rejected; but not so that He would justify the one, and consign and condemn the other without cause. For that would be contrary to the nature of God, who is the common Father of all, and no respecter of persons, and would have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth {1 Timothy 2:4}. But since He foreknew the one would make a right use of their free-will, and the other a wrong, He predestinated the one, or condemned the other. And we understand the use of free-will thus, that the Divine and illuminating grace, and which we call preventing grace, being, as a light to those in darkness, by the Divine goodness imparted to all, to those that are willing to obey this — for it is of use only to the willing, not to the unwilling — and co-operate with it, in what it requires as necessary to salvation, there is consequently granted particular grace. This grace co-operates with us, and enables us, and makes us to persevere in the love of God, that is to say, in performing those good things that God would have us to do, and which His preventing grace admonishes us that we should do, justifies us, and makes us predestinated. But those who will not obey, and co-operate with grace; and, therefore, will not observe those things that God would have us perform, and that abuse in the service of Satan the free-will, which they have received of God to perform voluntarily what is good, are consigned to eternal condemnation.

Eha · Feb 13, 2020

Si_monfaith said:
If humans have a will which is free, is there assurance it will agree with God's will & is there assurance of God's plan being fulfilled?

i have had answered on this question. for me this topic is clear. i am not talking, what i think, i had testimony, what it was like.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 13, 2020

ICONO'CLAST said:
Not one of these vs speaks of man having a free will

You need to deal with the verses in explaining them in how they are not talking about free will instead of writing them off with a statement of disapproval. For me: They are clear in what they plainly say.

Kermos · Feb 13, 2020

Dorothy Mae said:
God clearly says in His word that people did (and do) things not in his will. It’s usually called sin.

Let us visit the very precise definition of sin.

Sin: not a part, missing the mark.

hamartía Strong's 266 is a feminine noun derived from Strong's 1 which is "a" meaning "not" and Strong's 3313 which is "méros" meaning "a part, share of" - properly, no-share ("no part of"); loss (forfeiture) because not hitting the target; sin (missing the mark).

Sin is "not a part" of God, or said another way, "missing the mark" established by God, like missing the bull's eye of a target, sin is when a person does not do as God commands whether ignorantly or not.

The Apostle Paul wrote of missing the mark with "I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET." (Romans 7:7).

This all relates as to why Paul didn't write that he'd just choose to stop coveting, instead Paul indicates that he became aware of his sinfulness through the commandment.

Thus Paul indicates it is sin not to obey the commands of God.

The Apostle Peter wrote "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

The Apostle Peter wrote "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10)

Peter wrote "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation"

AND "the Lord knows how" "to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment"
SO the Lord God's control over salvation is amplified in Peter's writing

Peter also wrote important points about the unrighteous

DARING: the unrighteous do things like claim they choose Jesus contrary to the Lord's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16)
SELF-WILLED: the unrighteous are self-willed
NOT trembling when they revile angelic majesties
BY claiming choice toward Jesus
SO the self-willed persons contradict the Lord's words of "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)

In the unrighteous person's daring self-will, they are condemned

THEREFORE, "self will" is a cause unto damnation in the New Testament.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 13, 2020

ICONO'CLAST said:
Exactly there are no versus there because the Bible nowhere speaks of man having a free will you you're given vs no one is saying man doesn't choose and no one is not saying that man doesn't believe
what we're saying is there's no one not one verse that says man has a free will Jesus told those in John 8 that their Will was bound by sin

You said, "Free will is a false ,carnal, philosophical notion.
Men have self will that is bound by sin." and yet you did not post any verses to back up this claim. Just giving your opinion is not the same as Scripture.

By your mention of John 8, I imagine you wrongfully read Calvinism into John 8:44 and John 8:47.

44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."
47 "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."

But is verse 44 saying that they are incapable of moving beyond the kingdom of the devil?

Is verse 47 teaching that they are not capable of hearing God's Word?

Not at all.

To address verse 44: Let's look at 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

9 "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12).

In Calvinism: God is the One who made them to believe not. But we learn from the Scripture here that they were damned because they believed not the truth. God is punishing them because THEY did not believe the truth. The point here is that they were damned because they believed not the truth, and they prefered to have pleasure in unrighteousness; They did not receive the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved. So when we read the whole counsel of God's Word, we know that John 8:44 is not declaring that the Pharisees cannot move beyond the lusts of their father the devil.

As for John 8:47:

Let's look at Matthew 13:15:

"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest [for fear that, or otherwise or to prevent] at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." (Matthew 13:15).

Understanding the definition on the word "unless":
What does lest mean and how is it used in sentences? - Quora

Okay, first, this verse above reads most naturally with the word "uness." Especially when you read the verse in harmony with the whole chapter. The point of this verse is saying that their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have close.... UNLESS.... at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears and they should be converted. There is no mention here about how God must convert them so that they can see and hear. In fact, a Calvinist does not even believe a person can see and hear without being converted first. Yet, this verse says the exact opposite. It says they can hear and see before they are converted.

Second, in John 8, it would be pointless for Jesus to tell the Pharisees anything if they had no capability to even hear, or do anything to change their situation. Why bother to preach to dead men? It would be like trying to preach against a wall or a rock. We also know that in Matthew 23:37 that Jesus said this,

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me." (Matthew 23:37) (NLT).

Jesus desired to gather Jerusalem as a hen gathers its chicks beneath her wings, but those in Jerusalem would not let Him to do so. So those in Jerusalem were thwarting the will of Christ (Who is GOD).

So yeah, Calvinism does not make any sense when we read Scripture. From my perspective: You have to change, and or ignore Scripture in order to make it work.

BNR32FAN · Feb 13, 2020

Si_monfaith said:
If God controls human will to fulfil His plan how could everyone repent & believe?

I think a better question might be why would man need to repent if God controlled man’s will.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 13, 2020

Kermos said:
The passage written by Paul in Romans chapter nine serves multiple purposes; specifically, the progression of the chapter is very clear, and here it is:

A - The early part of God's plan revealed.

B - Individual salvation completely dependent on God with NO work by man in salvation.

C - The grafting of the Gentiles into Israel, but Paul does not out leave individual salvation.

D - The final sentence of the chapter returning to individual salvation "HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED" (Romans 9:33).

When Paul wrote of "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated" (Romans 9:13) there Paul is about the actual individuals, that is Jacob and Esau the inheritance of whom became known as Edom. I can write "heritage" for Esau because this all refers back to Malachi 1:2-3 where the Word of God states:

2 "I have loved you," says the LORD. But you say, "How have You loved us?" "[Was] not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the LORD. "Yet I have loved Jacob;
3 but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and [appointed] his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness."

Thus, the Word of God focuses on the individuals of Jacob and Esau then moves on to the the inheritance rapidly.

In both Romans 9:13 and Malachi 1:2 the name Jacob is used - not the newer name of Israel but the first name of Jacob because this refers to the individuals in this instance.

While Paul writes of Israel and Gentiles in Romans 9:30-33, that does not negate that Paul wrote of individual salvation in Romans 9:11-23 becuase Paul starts off the passage about the twins, the individuals, with these words "for though [the twins] were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to [His] choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls" (Romans 9:11).

Of individuals, Paul writes "it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy" (Romans 9:16).

Carnal man rejects God with the cry "Why did you make me like this" just as Paul wrote in Romans 9:20.

Behold the passage about individual salvation that Paul wrote "who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And [He did so] to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory" (Romans 9:20-23).

Paul writes of some individuals with "vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" (Romans 9:22).

Paul writes of some individuals with "vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory" (Romans 9:23).

God is the Potter, and we are the clay (Romans 9:20-23, Isaiah 64:8).

As a result, Paul agrees with Lord Jesus that claimed free will choice toward Jesus is rebellion against God for the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

The context is again Israel. Just read the beginning of Romans 9. Yes, this does include a point for individual salvation because Paul desired for Israel (Which is made up of individuals) to accept Jesus as their Savior. The whole point of the chapter is their not accepting their Messiah, Jesus, and His grace over their false Pharisee religion. Both Jews and Gentiles can now be saved by God's grace. It is true that God's grace (Justification) is not an aspect of salvation that involves works of righteousness that we have done, but it is based upon primarily by His mercy and grace by faith. Yet, Jesus does essentially say that the work of God is to believe in Him. "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (John 6:29) (Note: This appears to contradict Paul's statement in Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:2-5, and Titus 3:5 but Paul was referring to "Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism" that did not include God's grace; Also while God's grace through faith is called a work by Jesus, when looking at this aspect of salvation in light of Sanctification, it is an aspect of salvation that based primarily upon God's grace and mercy and not a major work of effort on our part like in doing works of righteousness so as to live holy in the Sanctification Process (that follows after being saved by God's grace). So in this sense, Grace through faith (Justification) is not a work even though it is called a work of God by Jesus.). But why would Jesus call believing in Him a work? Because faith in Jesus is something that you technically have to do in order to be saved. Belief is a mental action or work on our part, but it is not exactly like a physical work like works of righteousness in Sanctification.

So how can God say Jacob have I loved, and Esau have I hated?
Because 1 Peter 1:1-2 says that Peter was "elect" (chosen) based upon God the Father's foreknowledge. Foreknowledge means future knowledge. God the Father knew that Peter was going to accept Jesus as His Savior, and so Peter was elected by God the Father ahead of time in the fact that GOD knew what Peter was going to do. God could say ahead of time what Peter's choice was going to be. In this way, God can declare before Jacob and Esau were even born his preference over one or the other because GOD knew ahead of time what they were each going to do.

The Jews who rejected Jesus (Israel as a nation or whole) did not want to change and hear those Scripture verses that foretold of their coming Messiah. They did not want to see it. Not because God chose them to be blinded. It was their own choice to be blinded. For why even have a judgment if it was God who placed them there? It makes no sense. That would be like having a judgment for wolves because they ate some humans. The wolves cannot be condemned for something that is beyond their nature to do. It would be like a dog owner who kicks his dog across the room like a football because the poor animal poops on his nice white carpets because of an uncontrollable pooping problem. The dog owner kicks this poor animal even knowing that the dog is sick and cannot help but to poop. But the dog owner does not care. He simply kicks and punishes the poor pup even despite it having no control over its own capabilities. This is what you want me to believe about God. You want me to believe God is unjust and unfair. I mean, I shouldn't have to tell people that God is fair and just with a Bible, but if you need a Bible to teach you that, then by all means.... keep reading.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 13, 2020

Kermos said:
EXAMINING JOSHUA 24:15

Joshua tells the Israelites to choose between two error doctrines/false gods (Joshua 24:15).

You left MUCH SCRIPTURE out of your citation which results in twisted and distorted scripture. Joshua NEVER states that the people can choose the One True God - Joshua only presents the people with two choices false gods on one side of the river or the other false gods. Here is the entire quote "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" (Joshua 24:15).

There is no free will choosing toward Jesus in Joshua 24:15.

EXAMINING MATTHEW 11:28

"Come to Me" is a command (Matthew 11:28).

A command does not convey ability.

Jesus expresses ability in with "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me" (John 6:37).

God, at God's discretion, imparts ability into we believers to follow God's commands.

You cannot do what is pleasing to God (Romans 8:8) such as obey God's commands (John 6:37, Matthew 11:28) unless God chooses you (John 15:16) - not you choosing God!

There is no free will choosing toward Jesus in Matthew 11:28.

EXAMINING JOHN 7:17

The Greek word thele translates to the English "desires"; therefore, the English word "willing" in the KJV misrepresents the meaning of Lord Jesus' words.

Jesus did not say "choose" as in "choose to do His will", no, He said "desire".

Jesus said "If anyone desires to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or [whether] I speak from Myself" (John 7:17).

Jesus said "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5); therefore, the "desire" mentioned in John 7:17 is fruit of being in Jesus.

There is no free will choosing toward Jesus in John 7:17.

EXAMINING JOHN 7:37

You left MUCH SCRIPTURE out of your citation which results in twisted and distorted scripture, again.

The Apostle John's words where he wrote of Lord Jesus' words about the Living Water of God with the immersion of us believers about the Spirit of God: "Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, 'If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, "From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water."' But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive" (John 7:37-39).

That "If anyone is thirsty" is a conditional logic statement, so it does not convey ability apart from the working of God.

A person receives the Holy Spirit by God causing us believers to be born from above, that is, born again.

Jesus clearly expouses this with "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

There is no free will choosing toward Jesus in John 7:37.

EXAMINING ACTS 2:38

"Peter [said] to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.'" (Acts 2:38-39, this was Peter's response after the people who were pierced to the heart by Peter's proclamation inquired "Brethren, what shall we do?" in Acts 2:14-37)

Peter issued the command "think differently from now on" (repent) and the command "be immersed in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins".

Repentance is the work of God in us believers, behold these scriptures:

BIBLE CITATION: For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10).

The Apostle Paul did not write "sorrow that is according to your free will" - no he did NOT - the Apostle Paul ascribed to God that which is rightly God's - Godly sorrow leading to repentance to salvation!

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance.

BIBLE CITATION: I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 Corinthians 7:9-10)

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

God grants repentance; therefore, repentance is not a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free choice".

Repent is not a work of man. Repent is the work of God in man.

There is no free will choosing toward Jesus in Acts 2:38.

EXAMINING ACTS 3:19

Acts 3:19 is like Acts 2:38 for it's mention of "repent", so see the exegisis of Acts 2:38 above.

Conversion is the work of the Holy Spirit. Conversion is not a work of man.

There is no free will choosing toward Jesus in Acts 3:19.

EXAMINING ACTS 16:31

They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." (Acts 16:31)

Lord Jesus tells us where the "Believe" in "Believe in the Lord Jesus" comes. for Lord Jesus says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

The very "believe" in Acts 16:31 is reference to the "work of God" in us believers. Faith/belief is the work of God, not of man (John 6:29, Ephesians 2:8-10).

There is no free will choosing toward Jesus in Acts 16:31.

EXAMINING ACTS 17:30

"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all [people] everywhere should repent" (Acts 17:30).

A command does not convey ability.

There is no free will choosing toward Jesus in Acts 17:30.

EXAMINING REVELATION 22:17

ho thelon labeto hydor zoes dorean (Greek Revelation 22:17)
the desiring receive water of-life gratuitously (English word for word from Greek Revelation 22:17)
let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost (NASB Revelation 22:17)

Grammatical constructs:
- ho is the direct object which translates to English as "the" which is not an indirect object.
- thelon is a verb.
- labeto a form of lambano both being a verb which carries not only "receive" but also "to be siezed by"
- the Greek word "hos" which translates to English as "who" is absent.
- the Greek word "pas" which translates to English as "every" is absent.

The word "ho"/"the" negates the possibility for the word whosoever whatsoever, for example "the whosoever" fails as nonsensical grammatically. There is NO "whosoever" in the passage of Revelation 22:17, in point of fact, this sounds much more like a promise with "the desiring receive water of-life gratuitously" (English word for word from Greek Revelation 22:17)!

Behold, "whosoever" is not there implicitly nor explictly. Free willers try to use "whosoever" as a promiscuos and permissive word.

In reality, the NASB translation is very close with "let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost" (Revelation 22:17) for which two Greek words translate to English as "the one who wishes" or "the one desiring" or "the one wanting" or "the desiring" or "the wanting", that context of Revelation 22:17 is attraction; moreover, when the Apostle John's words in Revelation 22:17 are taken in accord with Lord Jesus' words of "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) thus there is no promiscuos and permissive sense, so a person cannot "desire" the water of life without the Lord Jesus!

Regardless, this is NOT about salvation since a person cannot "choose" Lord Jesus because Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), so "the desiring" mentioned in Revelation 22:17 are already chosen/elect by Lord Jesus.

There is no free will choosing toward Jesus in Revelation 22:17.

EXAMINING GENESIS 4:7

A practical example from Scripture is the account of Cain and Abel.
"Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will not [your countenance] be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it." (Genesis 4:6-7)

God did not say that Cain "could" do anything.

The conditional logic statement does not indicate ability for Cain, rather the conditional logic statement indicates an action.

We know that Cain's action was to "not do well" because it is written "Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him" (Genesis 4:8).

Action. Not choice. Not decision. But action is written.

There is no free will choosing toward Jesus in Genesis 4:7.

EXAMINING LUKE 13:34

Here are the recorded words of Lord Jesus by Luke, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [the city] that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen [gathers] her brood under her wings, and you would not [have it]!" (Luke 13:34).

The Apostle Matthew 23:37 also recorded Jesus' words about "the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings", and here is the unadulterated words of Jesus the Lord:

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling." (Matthew 23:37)

In Matthew 23:37, the Lord Jesus said "you were unwilling"; moreover, He did not say "you had the willpower to gather your children but you chose not to gather your children". It does not follow that the verse can be read as the people of Jerusalem had the free will/choice to have their children gathered together; therefore, Matthew 23:37 does not support freewill/choice/human agency. In the self same verse, Lord Jesus said that they fought against Him, so to speak, as opposed to fighting for Him - recall the Apostle Matthew recorded the Lord Jesus saying "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters." (Matthew 12:28). They were in bondage to captivity of the world for Lord Jesus said "you were unwilling". A person can only be saved by the intervention of the Almighty God named the Lord Jesus Christ, and it is to His glory.

There is no free will choosing toward Jesus in Luke 13:34 nor Matthew 23:37.

There is no rational thought behind your explanations here. The verses mean what they plainly say. I will just address just one of your explanations to show the irrational nature of your disregarding what the text says (to show the flaw in your reasoning in defending Calvinism).

In Joshua 24:15, you are not looking at the context in verse 14, and you ignored some words in verse 15. I will highlight in the Bible (because that is my username) those parts you are ignoring so as to demolish your unbiblical belief in Calvinism (Which is based upon the Canons of Dort, and the works of John Calvin).

14 "Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
(Joshua 24:24-15).

Notice in verse 14, Joshua tells them directly to fear the LORD and to serve Him in sincerity and in truth, and to put away the gods of their fathers served on the other side of the flood and in Egypt. Joshua again says, serve ye the Lord.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 13, 2020

Si_monfaith said:
Romans 9:33 "As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed".

Romans 9 is written to the NT church and is all about faith in Christ the Rock of offence.

Perhaps Arminius taught you wrongly.

I believe in God's grace just fine in these verses you mentioned. The Bible talks about two aspects of salvation and not just one. There are three verses that say we need both God's grace and Sanctification as a part of salvation. See: John 5:24, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and James 2:24. Living holy, putting away sin, works of righteousness, and not having a mindset that justifies sin is a part of the Sanctification Process after a person is saved by God's grace. Paul was fighting against "Works ALONE Salvationism" (that did not include God's grace) that was a result of "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which was a popular heresy at that time that taught that you had to be first circumcised in order to be saved). This heresy was addressed at the Jerusalem council.

Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”
Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

Circumcision is a part of the 613 laws of Moses. We are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or contract. We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers. Paul said in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Circumcision is of the Old Law and not the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. Paul essentially says in Titus 1:16 that you can deny God by a lack of works. Salvation is not in just grace alone, and neither is it in works alone. We need a healthy balance of both God's grace and Sanctification. If not, then we are just following whatever we prefer vs. what God's Word says.

IS THE WILL OF HUMANS CONTROLLED BY GOD?

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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