The Ghastly Eternal Torment Dogma

FineLinen · Feb 11, 2020

The HUGE problem with a father who torments any of his children is He is not in the same world as our Abba ! ! !

mmksparbud · Feb 11, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear Lady: Pas = the radical all. Polus = many. Both sides of the God equation are identical whether it is polus or pas or tis/some.

Adam1= many made sinners>>>Last Adam= many made righteous.

There is no Scripture that states anyone comes out of the Lake of Theos radiating with theion and theioo.

There is also no Scripture that anyone comes out of our God the consuming fire.

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

FineLinen · Feb 11, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

Yup!

The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.

Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for “our God is a consuming fire;” (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.

Therefore our Lord “came to cast fire into the earth,” and desired nothing more than “that it should be already kindled;” (S. Luke 12: 49) therefore He says,

Mark 9: 49

For this is the very “baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire,” (Matt. 3: 11) that “spirit of judgment and burning,” promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defense; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for “He is like a refiner’s fire, and like a fuller’s soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness.” (Mal. 3: 3). And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ’s flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

NOTE:

Numbers 28: 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God’s purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, “He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire.” (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4)

And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For “the Lord will come with fire,” and “by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;

NOTE:

James 1: 20) works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that “warfare of the service of the tabernacle” (See Numbers 4: 23, 30, and 8: 24, 25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1: eighteen) by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice.

-Andrew Jukes-

mmksparbud · Feb 11, 2020

FineLinen said:
Yup!

The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.

Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for “our God is a consuming fire;” (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.

Therefore our Lord “came to cast fire into the earth,” and desired nothing more than “that it should be already kindled;” (S. Luke 12: 49) therefore He says,

Mark 9: 49

For this is the very “baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire,” (Matt. 3: 11) that “spirit of judgment and burning,” promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defense; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for “He is like a refiner’s fire, and like a fuller’s soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness.” (Mal. 3: 3). And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ’s flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

NOTE:

Numbers 28: 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God’s purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, “He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire.” (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4)

And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For “the Lord will come with fire,” and “by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;

NOTE:

James 1: 20) works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that “warfare of the service of the tabernacle” (See Numbers 4: 23, 30, and 8: 24, 25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1: eighteen) by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice.

-Andrew Jukes-

It is only for those who walk with God on earth. It is not for the lost, they can not live through it.

Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

It matters not what man thinks---you quote men's opinions often--- they matter diddly squat to God. That's the blind leading the blind.

Saint Steven · Feb 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Warning: damnationalist spotted in the area.

I'm so happy the Lord gave me a heart that can't ignore His Word.

And a mind that can see His mercy and grace extended to all.

For narrow is the gate that leads to life, and few there be that find it.

Hello Charlie,

Is this the "Word of God"?

Romans 5:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

FineLinen · Feb 11, 2020

mmksparbud said:
It is only for those who walk with God on earth. It is not for the lost, they can not live through it.

Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

It matters not what man thinks---you quote men's opinions often--- they matter diddly squat to God. That's the blind leading the blind.

Dear lady: There are men who are worthy to pay attention.

Books by Andrew John Jukes (Author of The Second Death and the Restitution of All Things)

You would be well advised to allow the Father to open your horizons to the One who moves in the Realm of unlimited.

Head to your nearest closet, shut the door & listen to Him.

Saint Steven · Feb 11, 2020

nolidad said:
And I agree 100% with all those verses.

I wish that were true. You can't be serious.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved
and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Saint Steven · Feb 11, 2020

nolidad said:
Once again you look at the Scriptures out of their context.

That's a smoke screen.
You said you agreed 100 percent with the last batch. What happened?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also
descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended
higher than all the heavens,
in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead,
so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body,
but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Saint Steven · Feb 11, 2020

mmksparbud said:
It was for all people---but not all people will believe4, repent, bre baptized and follow Christ. Or did you not notice the change from all to many. Many is not all.

I was hoping you would point that out. (Many is not all) Thanks.

In verse 19, how many were made sinners through the disobedience of the one man? (all)
Therefore, how many will be made righteous through the obedience of the one man? (all)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Correct. Now apply the principle here.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Saint Steven · Feb 11, 2020

DNB said:
Do you think that it's a small issue to deny the existence of God, who created them and who's image is inside every single one of us, which Paul said that they are without excuse? I would say that it's worse than murder. (Moses killed the Egyptian).

Jesus taught us to treat our enemies perfectly, like God. Love your enemies.
How should God treat his enemies after teaching us to love our enemies?

Matthew 5:43-48 ESV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Saint Steven · Feb 11, 2020

BNR32FAN said:
Yes we can come to God because after Christ’s crucifixion He will draw all men to Him. Not all will come but all are called.

Wow. You are quoting Restorationist scriptures. - lol

If Christ WAS lifted up (he was) then he ALREADY drew ALL humankind to himself. Done deal.

mmksparbud · Feb 11, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear lady: There are men who are worthy to pay attention.

Books by Andrew John Jukes (Author of The Second Death and the Restitution of All Things)

You would be well advised to allow the Father to open your horizons to the One who moves in the Realm of unlimited.

Head to your nearest closet, shut the door & listen to Him.

I don't need to follow any man---I have the word of God. This concept is not of God.

mmksparbud · Feb 11, 2020

Saint Steven said:
I was hoping you would point that out. (Many is not all) Thanks.

In verse 19, how many were made sinners through the disobedience of the one man? (all)
Therefore, how many will be made righteous through the obedience of the one man? (all)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Correct. Now apply the principle here.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

Saint Steven · Feb 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Warning: damnationalist spotted in the area.

Let's work on your terminology. It's Damnationist, not damnationalist.
The other two are: Annihilationist and Restorationist.

Saint Steven · Feb 11, 2020

mmksparbud said:
I don't need to follow any man---I have the word of God. This concept is not of God.

However, you will follow a woman. Like Ellen White. (not the word of God)
Doesn't the SDA have male leaders and authors too? (that you refuse to follow)

Saint Steven · Feb 11, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

Bible versus Bible. Where does that leave us?

Saint Steven said: ↑
I was hoping you would point that out. (Many is not all) Thanks.

In verse 19, how many were made sinners through the disobedience of the one man? (all)
Therefore, how many will be made righteous through the obedience of the one man? (all)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Correct. Now apply the principle here.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

FineLinen · Feb 11, 2020

mmksparbud said:
I don't need to follow any man---I have the word of God. This concept is not of God.

Dear Lady: It has not even been hinted that you or any of us should follow any man (or woman). We all have the word of the Lord. I wonder why the Master of Reconciliation "opened their minds to understand the Scriptures"?

Well dear lady, your visit to your nearest closet to hear what He sayeth to you was a short visit. Back you go.

Blind eyes & deaf ears can be transformed by the Master of ephphatha!

mmksparbud · Feb 11, 2020

Saint Steven said:
However, you will follow a woman. Like Ellen White. (not the word of God)
Doesn't the SDA have male leaders and authors too? (that you refuse to follow)

I read EGW---she says nothing not biblical---I FOLLOW THE BIBLE. I AM SDA BECAUSE THEY TEACH WHAT I BELIEVE, NOT BECAUSE I BELIEVE WHAT THEY TEACH.

mmksparbud · Feb 11, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear Lady: It has not even been hinted that you or any of us should follow any man (or woman). We all have the word of the Lord. I wonder why the Master of Reconciliation "opened their minds to understand the Scriptures"?

Well dear lady, your visit to your nearest closet to hear what He sayeth to you was a short visit. Back you go.

Blind eyes & deaf ears can be transformed by the Master of ephphatha!

Not when they have shut down the Holy Spirit in preference to unbiblical concepts.
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Saint Steven · Feb 11, 2020

mmksparbud said:
I read EGW---she says nothing not biblical

A quick internet search could debunk that pretty quickly.

The Ghastly Eternal Torment Dogma

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