Can we eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans? And what about blood in meat?

Bob S · Feb 9, 2020

Dkh587 said:
Is it not weird to you that nobody knew the name Jesus 600 years ago?

Weird? No, not at all. I didn't realize that. It is certainly not weird when most every English speaking person and the Bible uses Jesus as the name of our Savior. Jesus is merely a derivative of Yahweh.

I don’t think it’s a sin, just incorrect. That name didn’t even exist until recently.

I do thank you for giving me that information.

I don't believe it is a sin either and since most of Christianity call Him Jesus, who am I to go against the tide. Christians should be united and when a group separates itself with other Christians over petty issues it sure would not attract me.

HARK! · Feb 9, 2020

Bob S said:
Weird? No, not at all. I didn't realize that. It is certainly not weird when most every English speaking person and the Bible uses Jesus as the name of our Savior. Jesus is merely a derivative of Yahweh.

I find it weird that in the KJV, that every time the name Yahshua is rendered, Joshua, except when it comes to references to Yahshua Messiah.

How is Mikhail Gorbachev's name rendered in English?

Dkh587 · Feb 9, 2020

Bob S said:
Weird? No, not at all. I didn't realize that. It is certainly not weird when most every English speaking person and the Bible uses Jesus as the name of our Savior. Jesus is merely a derivative of Yahweh.

I do thank you for giving me that information.

I don't believe it is a sin either and since most of Christianity call Him Jesus, who am I to go against the tide. Christians should be united and when a group separates itself with other Christians over petty issues it sure would not attract me.

although we disagree strongly on some things, I’m confident that you don’t think we should follow others in error, just because a majority are doing it.

Joshua is a more correct transliteration of the Hebrew name meaning “Yahweh is salvation”.

is it not odd that we call Joshua by his Hebrew name, but yet most people call the Hebrew Messiah, who has the same name as Joshua, by the name “Jesus”?

why do we call the devil by his Hebrew name, Satan, but we don’t call the Messiah by his Hebrew name?

BobRyan · Feb 10, 2020

Al Touthentop said:
I don't. Don't be mad. God made everything clean through the flood and told Noah it was all given to him to eat, even the reptiles.

Noah could not eat poison ivy -- and neither can we... as we all know.

And Lev 11 God tells us "what is for food".

39 ‘Also if one of the animals dies which you have for food, the one who touches its carcass becomes unclean until evening.

34 Any of the food which may be eaten, on which water comes, shall become unclean, and any liquid which may be drunk in every vessel shall become unclean. 35 Everything, moreover, on which part of their carcass may fall becomes unclean;

Diseased animals even if "clean" are by the fact of disease - also "not for food".

Al Touthentop said:
Poison ivy isn't mentioned in Leviticus.

because it is not an animal.

Lev 11
2 “Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘These are the creatures which you may eat from all the animals that are on the earth.

Al Touthentop said:
But by your logic, nobody before Moses knew what was for food.

On the contrary - I point out that in Genesis 6 and 7 before the flood - they knew. The clean animals go in by 7's to the ark and the unclean by 2's.

Al Touthentop said:
Which is part of the law of Moses which has been abolished. And if you think we are under the law of Moses, then we also must sacrifice animals for atonement of sin. And this requires that a Levite priest offer the sacrifice for you. When is the last time you did that?

Hebrews 10:4-9 points out that the laws based in animal sacrifice and grain offerings ended at the cross.

Even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and also the "Westminster Confession of Faith" point out that while the moral laws remain - yet the ceremonial laws end at the cross.

Al Touthentop · Feb 10, 2020

BobRyan said:
On the contrary - I point out that in Genesis 6 and 7 before the flood - they knew. The clean animals go in by 7's to the ark and the unclean by 2's.

And then after the flood and before the law of Moses, everything was clean. Just like now.

Hebrews 10:4-9 points out that the laws based in animal sacrifice and grain offerings ended at the cross.

The whole law of Moses ended at the cross.

Al Touthentop · Feb 10, 2020

Dkh587 said:
Is it not weird to you that nobody knew the name Jesus 600 years ago?

His name given in the new testament was Ιησου - (Yay-sue) - very close to the Latin pronunciation for Jesus (Hay-sues). There's no evidence that he was named in the Hebrew or Aramaic language. In fact, the prophecy he quotes at the synagogue in Nazareth was from the Septuagint, not the Hebrew Torah. The conversation with Nicodemus in John 3 also seems to indicate that they were speaking Greek, not Hebrew.

I don’t think it’s a sin, just incorrect. That name didn’t even exist until recently.

It's a pretty close approximation to the name given in the new testament.

HARK! · Feb 10, 2020

Al Touthentop said:
The whole law of Moses ended at the cross.

(CLV) Lk 22:15
And He said tod them, "With yearning I yearn to be eating this passover with you before My suffering.

(CLV) Lk 22:16
For I am saying to you that under no circumstances may I be eating of it till it may be fulfilled in the kingdom of God."

PASSOVER

“And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD {Yahweh} throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)

UNLEAVENED BREAD

“And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:17)

SHAVUOT (Feast of Weeks)

“And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute FOREVER in all your dwellings throughout your generations.” (Leviticus 23:21)

YOM KIPPUR

Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute FOREVER throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

FEAST OF TABERNACLES (Booths / Sukkot)

And ye shall keep it a feast unto YHWH seven days in the year. It shall be a statute FOREVER in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.(Leviticus 23:41)

Numerous New Testament examples show where people were intending to keep the Feasts, were keeping them, and would keep them again the in Kingdom. Those passages include: Luke 2:42; John 5:1; 7:2, 10, 14; 12:20; Matthew 26:2, 17, 29; Acts 18:21; and 1Corinthians 5:8.

Al Touthentop · Feb 10, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Lk 22:15
And He said tod them, "With yearning I yearn to be eating this passover with you before My suffering.

(CLV) Lk 22:16
For I am saying to you that under no circumstances may I be eating of it till it may be fulfilled in the kingdom of God."

Was this before or after his crucifixion?

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

HARK! · Feb 10, 2020

Al Touthentop said:
His name given in the new testament was Ιησου - (Yay-sue) - very close to the Latin pronunciation for Jesus (Hay-sues). There's no evidence that he was named in the Hebrew or Aramaic language.

(CLV) Mt 1:21
Now she shall be bringing forth a Son, and you shall be calling His name Jesus, for He' shall be saving His people from their sins."

This verse is nonsensical until you look at it from a Hebrew perspective.

Observe:

(CLV) Mt 1:21
Now she shall be bringing forth a Son, and you shall be calling His name Yahshua, for YHWH shall be saving His people from their sins."

Yah is the hyphenated form of YHWH.

Shua is the Hebrew word for save.

Hebrew names are sentence names. They have meaning.

Yah shua, means YHWH saves.

YHWH said that there is no savior but himself.

Yahshua came in his Father's name.

HARK! · Feb 10, 2020

Al Touthentop said:
Was this before or after his crucifixion?

Right before his crucifixion he told us that he would eat Passover (one of the feasts that the Father said to keep forever) when we meet him in the kingdom. Then his apostles continued to keep the feasts long after Yahshua ascended.

Al Touthentop · Feb 11, 2020

HARK! said:
Right before his crucifixion he told us that he would eat Passover (one of the feasts that the Father said to keep forever) when we meet him in the kingdom. Then his apostles continued to keep the feasts long after Yahshua ascended.

He was speaking of his new institution the Lord's supper which does not at all involve putting blood on a doorpost or sacrificing a lamb. And he was telling them that the next time they did this meal, he would be in heaven 'eating' it with them.

This new Passover was one they celebrated every 'Lord's Day' or Sunday, when the church met.

It's not the same Passover. Do you sacrifice a lamb and paint your door posts with the lambs blood when you celebrate Passover?

BobRyan · Feb 11, 2020

Diseased animals even if "clean" are by the fact of disease - also "not for food".

Al Touthentop said:
Poison ivy isn't mentioned in Leviticus.

because it is not an animal.

Lev 11
2 “Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘These are the creatures which you may eat from all the animals that are on the earth.

Al Touthentop said:
But by your logic, nobody before Moses knew what was for food.

On the contrary - I point out that in Genesis 6 and 7 before the flood - they knew. The clean animals go in by 7's to the ark and the unclean by 2's.

Al Touthentop said:
Which is part of the law of Moses which has been abolished. And if you think we are under the law of Moses, then we also must sacrifice animals for atonement of sin. And this requires that a Levite priest offer the sacrifice for you. When is the last time you did that?

Hebrews 10:4-9 points out that the laws based in animal sacrifice and grain offerings ended at the cross.

Even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and also the "Westminster Confession of Faith" point out that while the moral laws remain - yet the ceremonial laws end at the cross.

Al Touthentop said:
And then after the flood and before the law of Moses, everything was clean. Just like now.

The whole law of Moses ended at the cross.

Nope.

As Christ and Paul point out -- Christ in Matthew 19 and Paul in Romans 13 and James in James 2 all quoting the same Law of Moses binding on all mankind.

No wonder Paul reminds us that the 5th commandment as given by Moses is the "first commandment with a promise" and is binding on all mankind - Eph 6:2 -- still.

Al Touthentop · Feb 11, 2020

BobRyan said:
because it is not an animal.

So it wasn't forbidden as you suggest.

Al Touthentop · Feb 11, 2020

BobRyan said:
As Christ and Paul point out -- Christ in Matthew 19 and Paul in Romans 13 and James in James 2 all quoting the same Law of Moses binding on all mankind.

The "perfect law of liberty" is not the law of Moses. Paul says that law was abolished. We're under Christ's law now.

BobRyan · Feb 11, 2020

Al Touthentop said:
The "perfect law of liberty" is not the law of Moses. Paul says that law was abolished. .

You are referencing James 2 where the only thing James quotes - is the Law of Moses.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

So that was a quote of Lev 19:18 -- from the LAW of Moses - still appealed to as the authority - as "Scripture" by James.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.”

The appeal is to "He who said" in vs 11 just as in vs 8 "scripture.

Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Al Touthentop · Feb 11, 2020

BobRyan said:
You are referencing James 2 where the only thing James quotes - is the Law of Moses.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

So that was a quote of Lev 19:18 -- from the LAW of Moses - still appealed to as the authority - as "Scripture" by James.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.”

The appeal is to "He who said" in vs 11 just as in vs 8 "scripture.

Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Even after knowing that Paul said the law was abolished, you still read these passages as if they are the same law. That's not how you read the bible, ignoring parts and then reading others as if they contradict what the apostles said. Cut it out.

BobRyan · Feb 11, 2020

Al Touthentop said:
Even after knowing that Paul said the law was abolished,

Paul never says the OT was abolished or that the law as written by Moses was abolished. I think we all know that.

In Eph 6:2 Paul goes back to the Law of Moses quoting it verbatim and reminds us that the 5th commandment " is the first commandment with a promise " where commandment is a verbatim quote of Moses - just as Rom 13 is a vebatim quote of Moses by Paul - just as Matthew 19 shows Christ quoting Moses verbatim.

No wonder Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 and then shows in Romans 7 that examples of quotes from those commandments are verbatim quotes of the law of Moses... just as James 2 gives us verbatim quotes of the Law of Moses in James 2.

Where we simply "not supposed to notice"??

Bible details so obvious that the "Baptist Confession of Faith" And the "Westminster Confession of Faith" both admit to them.

HARK! · Feb 11, 2020

Al Touthentop said:
He was speaking of his new institution the Lord's supper which does not at all involve putting blood on a doorpost or sacrificing a lamb. And he was telling them that the next time they did this meal, he would be in heaven 'eating' it with them.

This new Passover was one they celebrated every 'Lord's Day' or Sunday, when the church met.

It's not the same Passover. Do you sacrifice a lamb and paint your door posts with the lambs blood when you celebrate Passover?

Let's go through this again methodically.

(CLV) Lk 22:15
And He said to them, "With yearning I yearn to be eating this passover with you before My suffering.

yearn
verb

English Language Learners Definition of yearn
: to feel a strong desire or wish for something or to do something

With wishing, He was wishing that he could eat Passover with them.

Here's what he was saying in plain terms: "I surely wish I could eat Passover (the day after preparation day...preparation day being the day that the lamb is slaughtered) with you all before I'm executed before Passover."

No matter how much Yahshua wished it; it was not the Father's will. The Pesach lamb was slaughtered, on the day before Pesach, since the beginning.

(CLV) Lk 22:16
For I am saying to you that under no circumstances may I be eating of it till it may be fulfilled in the kingdom of God."

Remember that in the previous sentence, he was wishing that he could eat the Passover with them. In the VERY NEXT SENTENCE he says that ain't gonna happen.

To top it all off, they weren't eating crackers that night. They were eating leavened bread. (Greek artos)

There is no "new" Passover.

PASSOVER

“And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD {YHWH} throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)

HARK! · Feb 11, 2020

Al Touthentop said:
Do you sacrifice a lamb and paint your door posts with the lambs blood when you celebrate Passover?

Sacrifice? Where do you get that? I have roasted lamb with bitter herbs, eaten in haste. I cook up my own unleavened bread; and I stay in for the night. I grow my own hyssop to put the blood on my doorposts; but I try not to get it on my Shema.

How do you honor YHWH's kadosh appointment?

Al Touthentop · Feb 11, 2020

HARK! said:
Let's go through this again methodically.

(CLV) Lk 22:15
And He said to them, "With yearning I yearn to be eating this passover with you before My suffering.

And then he said this which you dismiss out of hand.

14 When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him. 15 Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”

Until what is fulfilled? The Passover of which he was to be the sacrifice.

19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. 21 But behold, the hand of My betrayer is with Me on the table. 22 And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!”

He instituted a new feast because with his crucifixion he would end the old covenant and this new 'feast' would be what would replace the Passover feast.

But you keep contradicting Paul and I'm done conversing with somebody who rejects the scriptures. You're wasting my time. No longer.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

The old covenant was terminated. Paul says if we go back to that covenant, we have fallen from grace.

Can we eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans? And what about blood in meat?

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