Flat earth takedown

lasthero · Feb 8, 2020

God could have created it either way, so it's nothing to do with the existence of God (or evolution???

In my experience, they think a flat earth would disprove the Big Bang, and they tie that to disproving evolution.

Speedwell · Feb 8, 2020

Strathos said:
In order to discredit Christianity and the Bible.

But a round Earth doesn't discredit Christianity or the Bible. Neither Christianity nor the Bible teaches us anything at all about the shape of the Earth. And in fact the round Earth conspiracy must date back at least to the time of Eratosthenes, several centuries before Christianity was established.

Bungle_Bear · Feb 8, 2020

Speedwell said:
But a round Earth doesn't discredit Christianity or the Bible. Neither Christianity nor the Bible teaches us anything at all about the shape of the Earth. And in fact the round Earth conspiracy must date back at least to the time of Eratosthenes, several centuries before Christianity was established.

That's just a lie you've been told. Eratosthenes wasn't real, he was invented by The Globalists to make it seem as though the conspiracy started before Christianity :oldthumbsup:

The IbanezerScrooge · Feb 9, 2020

Strathos said:
In order to discredit Christianity and the Bible.

But considering that, as pointed out earlier in the thread, there are nearly 3 billion Christians in the world, they're not doing a very good job.

If I was in charge of a millennia - old conspiracy that controlled every nation and had unlimited resources, and my goal was to lead people away from Christ, I know exactly what I would do.

Step 1: Forge ancient Roman records showing that the authorities regarded Jesus as a crazy cult leader during His lifetime
Step 2: Forge records showing that He was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and stayed dead.
Step 3: Forge records showing that, after His death, His followers made up a bunch of wild stories about the resurrection and miracles
Step 4: Create a false tomb, matching the one described in the NT, with a large rock in front of it (unmoved), and put a body in there from the right time period, matching the description and characteristics of Jesus Christ, complete with Roman records that it was His tomb. Get archaeologists to 'discover' it and proclaim the discovery all over the world. If Jesus died and never resurrected, the very core of Christianity is destroyed.

Doing such a thing would be trivially easy for an organization of the scale and capabilities attributed to the 'round earth conspiracy'. Yet apparently they never thought of this.

Pfft. Easy to rebut. Christ's resurrection was spiritual.

topher694 · Feb 9, 2020

SeventyOne said:
2. You all do look foolish when you argue against the flat earth as a concept which you obviously have no understanding about, but I never said anything everyone is a fool but me.

This has to be the second most ironic thing I have ever read. #1 and #2 both in the same thread... Remarkable.

Jimmy D · Feb 9, 2020

SeventyOne said:
No. Sorry. That's a lie you've been told.

No one told me anything about it, I could see it clearly using my own eyes. I’ve posted this before, but never got a meaningful response...

How long does it take to fly from Sydney to Buenos Aries?
How long does it take to fly from Sydney to Toronto?

How do those times / distances compare to the distances on the globe us 'sheep' use and the flat earth map you free-thinkers use?

Why is it that Toronto appears to be much closer to Sydney Than B Aires is when it is actually almost 4000km further away? Why is this verified by commercial flight times.

Please don’t pretend that you’ve answered this in the past, or ask me to search for explanations on line.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Feb 9, 2020

SeventyOne said:
1. Never claimed to have all the answers.

2. You all do look foolish when you argue against the flat earth as a concept which you obviously have no understanding about, but I never said anything everyone is a fool but me.

Your attitude and general manner on this thread really suggests that you do, for each of those.

And it is funny that, when asked a very simple question about the flat earth 'model', you just handwave it aside going "I don't know" and yet you seem to think that you have the requisite knowledge to say that everyone else who dares question the flat earth 'model' has no understanding about it.

Tom 1 · Feb 9, 2020

HitchSlap said:
One of the best rebuttals to FEN (flat earth nonsense).

Enjoy.

It’s a decent rebuttal in the round, but I don’t know if it’s really a global argument. It could be rounded out by extending the radius to address the circular arguments often kicked about in the sphere of flat earthery. Circumventing all of that leaves you with some facts and ball-park figures, but it has the ring of not really rolling out the whole meridian of interconnected horizons of flattish thought, everything that orbits the basic circumlocutions of the whole rotundus of revolving whatabouts and spitt-balled arguments of the global flat-earth spiral of thought.

Speedwell · Feb 9, 2020

Tom Farebrother said:
It’s a decent rebuttal in the round, but I don’t know if it’s really a global argument. It could be rounded out by extending the radius to address the circular arguments often kicked about in the sphere of flat earthery. Circumventing all of that leaves you with some facts and ball-park figures, but it has the ring of not really rolling out the whole meridian of interconnected horizons of flattish thought, everything that orbits the basic circumlocutions of the whole rotundus of revolving whatabouts and spitt-balled arguments of the global flat-earth spiral of thought.

Thanks, Tom. I'm glad someone was finally able to explain the matter clearly.

Tom 1 · Feb 9, 2020

Jimmy D said:
but never got a meaningful response

Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds

Maybe change the attack vector?

pitabread · Feb 9, 2020

Bungle_Bear said:
My guess is @SeventyOne will avoid answering, just as he has avoided addressing my criticisms of the vacuum "experiment". A simple "you're just ignorant" is the best explanation I'm expecting, if I get any explanation at all.

This brings up another trend I've seen in purported FE advocates and why it's tell whether or not they are sincere. A lot of FE advocates avoid engaging in prolonged, detailed rebuttals to FE criticisms. I've seen this same sort of thing over at the FE Society forums (yes, I've lurked there way too much).

The only arena where FE advocates do seem to engage in lengthy arguments is via YouTube and/or podcasts.

Tom 1 · Feb 9, 2020

Speedwell said:
Thanks, Tom. I'm glad someone was finally able to explain the matter clearly.

Yes, if you roll the flat earth idea around a bit you eventualy arrive in the circle of understanding.

Lost4words · Feb 9, 2020

Flat earth believers are a global phenomenon

Tom 1 · Feb 9, 2020

I've seen quite a few of these flat earth threads on here now and the one certain conclusion is that someone who believes that the earth is flat will never be swayed by any kind of evidence, not in a million years. I'm convinced that if a flat earther was taken up to orbit the earth a few times they would still be able to dismiss it later as some kind of hoax. I think that is the only interesting thing about these discussions, obviously it's not only flat-earthers who think in this way but as an extreme example it shows how far this sort of biased thinking can go.

SeventyOne · Feb 9, 2020

Until you all can begin with a viable explanation of these scientific experiments, which collectively prove a motionless earth, the existence of an ether, and the refutation of relativity, you have no basis on which to talk against flat earth.

1. Michelson-Morely: Proved the lack of movement. This is the experiment, which in Einstein's own words, was the purpose for the theory of relativity to be invented (also the subsequent Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction). He also later admitted he failed to disprove these results. It also registered movement caused by the ether.

For those of you who think that the 'Behind The Curve' documentary was some kind of slam dunk because Bob Knodel mentioned detecting movement in one of the FECore.org experiments, it was this experiment they ultimately recreated successfully, finding evidence of the ether as well. I know you all didn't investigate any further in order to not lose your 'gotcha' moment, so I hope this helps with that area of ignorance.

2. Sagnac: This experiment proved the existence of the ether, also a refutation of relativity.

3. Airy's Failure: Proved the motion in relation between the stars and the earth, was caused due to the stars moving, not the earth.

4. Michelson-Gale: Proved the earth was not rotating at all.

You can search for all the excuses, there are plenty out there attempting to explain these away. But the point is, if you aren't familiar with these experiments at all at this very moment, don't waste my time with arguing with me about flat earth, because it just reinforces what I've been saying all along, you don't understand the concept you are arguing against.

The IbanezerScrooge · Feb 9, 2020

SeventyOne said:
Until you all can begin with a viable explanation of these scientific experiments, which collectively prove a motionless earth, the existence of an ether, and the refutation of relativity, you have no basis on which to talk against flat earth.

1. Michelson-Morely: Proved the lack of movement. This is the experiment, which in Einstein's own words, was the purpose for the theory of relativity to be invented (also the subsequent Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction). He also later admitted he failed to disprove these results. It also registered movement caused by the ether.

For those of you who think that the 'Behind The Curve' documentary was some kind of slam dunk because Bob Knodel mentioned detecting movement in one of the FECore.org experiments, it was this experiment they ultimately recreated successfully, finding evidence of the ether as well. I know you all didn't investigate any further in order to not lose your 'gotcha' moment, so I hope this helps with that area of ignorance.

2. Sagnac: This experiment proved the existence of the ether, also a refutation of relativity.

3. Airy's Failure: Proved the motion in relation between the stars and the earth, was caused due to the stars moving, not the earth.

4. Michelson-Gale: Proved the earth was not rotating at all.

You can search for all the excuses, there are plenty out there attempting to explain these away. But the point is, if you aren't familiar with these experiments at all at this very moment, don't waste my time with arguing with me about flat earth, because it just reinforces what I've been saying all along, you don't understand the concept you are arguing against.

Please, address Jimmy D's post. I'm really interested in your answer.

Speedwell · Feb 9, 2020

SeventyOne said:
Until you all can begin with a viable explanation of these scientific experiments, which collectively prove a motionless earth, the existence of an ether, and the refutation of relativity, you have no basis on which to talk against flat earth.

1. Michelson-Morely: Proved the lack of movement. This is the experiment, which in Einstein's own words, was the purpose for the theory of relativity to be invented (also the subsequent Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction). He also later admitted he failed to disprove these results. It also registered movement caused by the ether.

For those of you who think that the 'Behind The Curve' documentary was some kind of slam dunk because Bob Knodel mentioned detecting movement in one of the FECore.org experiments, it was this experiment they ultimately recreated successfully, finding evidence of the ether as well. I know you all didn't investigate any further in order to not lose your 'gotcha' moment, so I hope this helps with that area of ignorance.

2. Sagnac: This experiment proved the existence of the ether, also a refutation of relativity.

3. Airy's Failure: Proved the motion in relation between the stars and the earth, was caused due to the stars moving, not the earth.

4. Michelson-Gale: Proved the earth was not rotating at all.

You can search for all the excuses, there are plenty out there attempting to explain these away. But the point is, if you aren't familiar with these experiments at all at this very moment, don't waste my time with arguing with me about flat earth, because it just reinforces what I've been saying all along, you don't understand the concept you are arguing against.

And once again a flat-Earther has avoided answering my question.

Speedwell said:
The question I have about the flat Earth which never seems to get answered is, why? If the Earth is really flat and scientists are involved in a vast conspiracy to cover it up, what motivates them? Conspiracies are a lot of work. Why should they bother?

pitabread · Feb 9, 2020

SeventyOne said:
But the point is, if you aren't familiar with these experiments at all at this very moment, don't waste my time with arguing with me about flat earth, because it just reinforces what I've been saying all along, you don't understand the concept you are arguing against.

Based on my experience with flat Earthers, they don't seem to understand what they are arguing either.

Your above post reinforces this. Claiming the Earth is motionless is not the same thing as claiming it is flat.

(Besides which I've looked into some of the aforementioned experiments and FE claims about them are just the usual complete misinterpretations thereof. They don't support FE.

And I can guarantee that you won't be able to explain otherwise, even if you wanted to.)

Until you all can begin with a viable explanation of these scientific experiments, which collectively prove a motionless earth, the existence of an ether, and the refutation of relativity, you have no basis on which to talk against flat earth.

Sure we do. FE is at best just a goofy conspiracy theory and at worst, an Internet meme for trolls.

No Flat Earther has ever demonstrated otherwise.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Feb 9, 2020

SeventyOne said:
Until you all can begin with a viable explanation of these scientific experiments, which collectively prove a motionless earth, the existence of an ether, and the refutation of relativity, you have no basis on which to talk against flat earth.

1. Michelson-Morely: Proved the lack of movement. This is the experiment, which in Einstein's own words, was the purpose for the theory of relativity to be invented (also the subsequent Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction). He also later admitted he failed to disprove these results. It also registered movement caused by the ether.

For those of you who think that the 'Behind The Curve' documentary was some kind of slam dunk because Bob Knodel mentioned detecting movement in one of the FECore.org experiments, it was this experiment they ultimately recreated successfully, finding evidence of the ether as well. I know you all didn't investigate any further in order to not lose your 'gotcha' moment, so I hope this helps with that area of ignorance.

2. Sagnac: This experiment proved the existence of the ether, also a refutation of relativity.

3. Airy's Failure: Proved the motion in relation between the stars and the earth, was caused due to the stars moving, not the earth.

4. Michelson-Gale: Proved the earth was not rotating at all.

You can search for all the excuses, there are plenty out there attempting to explain these away. But the point is, if you aren't familiar with these experiments at all at this very moment, don't waste my time with arguing with me about flat earth, because it just reinforces what I've been saying all along, you don't understand the concept you are arguing against.

Why are you asking us to do your work for you? You're the one who's coming on here, acting like you know all the answers, calling us foolish, calling anything that doesn't support a flat earth 'model' (which is virtually every thing) 'lies'.
So why don't you put up or shut up? Show us the actual evidence, the evidence you think you have for showing that the earth is flat.

pitabread · Feb 9, 2020

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Why are you asking us to do your work for you? You're the one who's coming on here, acting like you know all the answers, calling us foolish, calling anything that doesn't support a flat earth 'model' (which is virtually every thing) 'lies'.
So why don't you put up or shut up? Show us the actual evidence, the evidence you think you have for showing that the earth is flat.

The low effort responses on their part suggest they aren't to do anything besides troll the rest of us.

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