Is land restoration a part of the new covenant?

Contenders Edge · Feb 6, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Not so. You place a meaning upon Revelation 20 that does not exist. It is the beginning of the last recap in Revelation. It takes us right back to the first resurrection. All the other passages that you attribute to that supposed age make absolutely no mention of a millennium. You have to force it into the sacred text. You have zero corroboration for Revelation 20.

There is no contextual evidence that Revelation chapter 20 is a recap of anything. That is an interpretation that you yourself are imposing on the text and one would have to be blind to not see that Revelation chapter 20 does teach a thousand year reign of Christ and His saints on the earth.

sovereigngrace · Feb 7, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
There is no contextual evidence that Revelation chapter 20 is a recap of anything. That is an interpretation that you yourself are imposing on the text and one would have to be blind to not see that Revelation chapter 20 does teach a thousand year reign of Christ and His saints on the earth.

Where does it even shows Jesus reigning on earth for a thousand years in Rev 20?

Contenders Edge · Feb 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Where does it even shows Jesus reigning on earth for a thousand years in Rev 20?

Revelation 20:1-4.

sovereigngrace · Feb 8, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
Revelation 20:1-4.

That is a heavenly scene. There’s nowhere there’s that mentions Christ reigning on earth. You have to force that into the text. Thrones in Revelation are located in heaven. This is talking about the intermediate state. It is talking about the souls of the dead in Christ. They are disembodied.

Contenders Edge · Feb 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
That is a heavenly scene. There’s nowhere there’s that mentions Christ reigning on earth. You have to force that into the text. Thrones in Revelation are located in heaven. This is talking about the intermediate state. It is talking about the souls of the dead in Christ. They are disembodied.

Revelation chapter 20, in full, is depicting an earthly scene, not a heavenly scene and if the scripture says that there will be disembodied souls reigning with Christ upon the earth, then so be it, though it is not likely that they remained disembodied since they are a part of the first resurrection.

sovereigngrace · Feb 8, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
Revelation chapter 20, in full, is depicting an earthly scene, not a heavenly scene and if the scripture says that there will be disembodied souls reigning with Christ upon the earth, then so be it, though it is not likely that they remained disembodied since they are a part of the first resurrection.

I believe Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Positionally, we have our part in His life, death, resurrection, ascension and glorious reign through regeneration - being "in Christ." This means the lake of fire (the second death) has no claim over us. Our sin was buried with Christ and when He arose we arose. He was our representative. He was our substitute. The company that have their “part” in the first resurrection in Revelation 20:6 are all those that are spiritually raised “in Christ” from the grave of their sin.

Romans 6:4 says, “we are buried with him by baptism into death.”

Colossians 2:12 agrees, saying, we are “Buried with him in baptism.”

Romans 6:4 says, “like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

Colossians 2:12 again concurs, saying, “ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

Contenders Edge · Feb 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
I believe Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Positionally, we have our part in His life, death, resurrection, ascension and glorious reign through regeneration - being "in Christ." This means the lake of fire (the second death) has no claim over us. Our sin was buried with Christ and when He arose we arose. He was our representative. He was our substitute. The company that have their “part” in the first resurrection in Revelation 20:6 are all those that are spiritually raised “in Christ” from the grave of their sin.

Romans 6:4 says, “we are buried with him by baptism into death.”

Colossians 2:12 agrees, saying, we are “Buried with him in baptism.”

Romans 6:4 says, “like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

Colossians 2:12 again concurs, saying, “ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

The day is coming when the first death will have no claim over us either (1 Thess. 4:13-18) and it is because of the resurrection of our Lord, that we have this hope of no longer being subject to death ourselves (first or second). Scripture not only ties the first resurrection to Christ, but also to the saints who have died as Revelation 20:4 clearly points out.

Just as the resurrection of Christ was a bodily resurrection, so our bodies will also undergo the same.

sovereigngrace · Feb 8, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
The day is coming when the first death will have no claim over us either (1 Thess. 4:13-18) and it is because of the resurrection of our Lord, that we have this hope of no longer being subject to death ourselves (first or second). Scripture not only ties the first resurrection to Christ, but also to the saints who have died as Revelation 20:4 clearly points out.

Just as the resurrection of Christ was a bodily resurrection, so our bodies will also undergo the same.

The first death we experience is spiritual. But we now already operate in the resurrection life now. That is the part that Premils seem to overlook. We have our portion in Christ's first resurrection spiritually. Revelation 20:4 says: “Blessed and holy is he that hath part (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be (plural future middle indicative) priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign (plural future middle indicative) with him a thousand years" (Revelation 20:4).

Obviously, one has to experience their “part” in “the first resurrection” in order to be qualified to “reign.” That is like saying that those that get “saved” (present tense) will experience spiritual authority. Now that was not difficult to work out.

Contenders Edge · Feb 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
The first death we experience is spiritual. But we now already operate in the resurrection life now. That is the part that Premils seem to overlook. We have our portion in Christ's first resurrection spiritually. Revelation 20:4 says: “Blessed and holy is he that hath part (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be (plural future middle indicative) priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign (plural future middle indicative) with him a thousand years" (Revelation 20:4).

Obviously, one has to experience their “part” in “the first resurrection” in order to be qualified to “reign.” That is like saying that those that get “saved” (present tense) will experience spiritual authority. Now that was not difficult to work out.

The first death is a bodily death to which we are all presently subject. The second death is spiritual which is eternal separation from God. It could even be argued that this second death could be described as a type of living death.

But if we are not liberated from the death to which our bodies are subject, then we would all be subject to the first death for eternity with no resurrection and with that death would the be ongoing grief and sorrow that it causes, making the promise of all tears being wiped away and of a world in which there is no death, grief, pain, or sorrow (Rev. 21:4) a lie.

jgr · Feb 8, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
The first death is a bodily death to which we are all presently subject. The second death is spiritual which is eternal separation from God. It could even be argued that this second death could be described as a type of living death.

But if we are not liberated from the death to which our bodies are subject, then we would all be subject to the first death for eternity with no resurrection and with that death would the be ongoing grief and sorrow that it causes, making the promise of all tears being wiped away and of a world in which there is no death, grief, pain, or sorrow (Rev. 21:4) a lie.

The first death and first resurrection are spiritual.

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.

The second death, i.e. physical death, has no power over those who have experienced the first resurrection. (Revelation 20:6)

sovereigngrace · Feb 8, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
The first death is a bodily death to which we are all presently subject. The second death is spiritual which is eternal separation from God. It could even be argued that this second death could be described as a type of living death.

But if we are not liberated from the death to which our bodies are subject, then we would all be subject to the first death for eternity with no resurrection and with that death would the be ongoing grief and sorrow that it causes, making the promise of all tears being wiped away and of a world in which there is no death, grief, pain, or sorrow (Rev. 21:4) a lie.

Not so!

God warned Adam in Genesis 2:17: “of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

Did Adam die physically on that day or did he die spiritually?

This caution to Adam didn’t just relate to physical death but also to spiritual death. God warned him that there would be an awful cost for disobeying Him. Sadly, Adam rebelled against the Law of God and consequently paid a terrible price. Adam surrendered that eternal part of his nature by walking in his own power. Physical and spiritual death fell upon man after the fall. Adam became a mortal creature when he disobeyed God. He was immediately separated from God, separated from the life of God, separated from communion with God. This is seen in the fact that the first thing Adam did after the fall was run from God, hide and cover himself with his own covering (Genesis 3:7-10).

Whilst we know from Scripture that Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, we equally know that he didn't physically die on that same day. This was first referring to spiritual death which would separate man from that perfect communion he enjoyed with God. Genesis 5:5 tells us: “And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.”

If spiritual death was the first death man experienced, the next death that he experienced, which was a direct result of the first, was physical death. The fall left mankind in a hopeless ruined state facing a certain two-fold death. Left to his own devices, man was destined for “the Lake of Fire” and eternal spiritual and physical death.

When Adam fell his desires automatically changed from being God-ward to being self-ward. Satan was happy to facilitate this; after all, he has always promoted anything that takes man’s eyes off God. Since the Garden, natural man with Adam’s blood is born with that same corrupt aspiration. He is a rebel. In this, he will always go the way of sin. That is his natural inclination. For man to have hope, this had to be corrected. The only problem was, man couldn’t help himself – he was spiritually dead and now possessed a nature that was skewed to run from God, not to Him.

Contenders Edge · Feb 8, 2020

jgr said:
The first death and first resurrection are spiritual.

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.

The second death, i.e. physical death, has no power over those who have experienced the first resurrection. (Revelation 20:6)

Revelation 20:14:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

What is the second death? The lake of fire where both body and soul of the unrepentant will be tormented forever and ever.

sovereigngrace · Feb 8, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
Revelation 20:14:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

What is the second death? The lake of fire where both body and soul of the unrepentant will be tormented forever and ever.

While spiritual death came first it is last to be judged. Left unaddressed, it leads to eternal torment.

Contenders Edge · Feb 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Not so!

God warned Adam in Genesis 2:17: “of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

Did Adam die physically on that day or did he die spiritually?

This caution to Adam didn’t just relate to physical death but also to spiritual death. God warned him that there would be an awful cost for disobeying Him. Sadly, Adam rebelled against the Law of God and consequently paid a terrible price. Adam surrendered that eternal part of his nature by walking in his own power. Physical and spiritual death fell upon man after the fall. Adam became a mortal creature when he disobeyed God. He was immediately separated from God, separated from the life of God, separated from communion with God. This is seen in the fact that the first thing Adam did after the fall was run from God, hide and cover himself with his own covering (Genesis 3:7-10).

Whilst we know from Scripture that Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, we equally know that he didn't physically die on that same day. This was first referring to spiritual death which would separate man from that perfect communion he enjoyed with God. Genesis 5:5 tells us: “And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.”

If spiritual death was the first death man experienced, the next death that he experienced, which was a direct result of the first, was physical death. The fall left mankind in a hopeless ruined state facing a certain two-fold death. Left to his own devices, man was destined for “the Lake of Fire” and eternal spiritual and physical death.

When Adam fell his desires automatically changed from being God-ward to being self-ward. Satan was happy to facilitate this; after all, he has always promoted anything that takes man’s eyes off God. Since the Garden, natural man with Adam’s blood is born with that same corrupt aspiration. He is a rebel. In this, he will always go the way of sin. That is his natural inclination. For man to have hope, this had to be corrected. The only problem was, man couldn’t help himself – he was spiritually dead and now possessed a nature that was skewed to run from God, not to Him.

Revelation 20:14:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

What is the second death? The lake of fire where both body and soul of the unrepentant will be tormented forever and ever. It is not the death of the body since the damned are resurrected to face their final judgment. The first death destroys the body. The second death destroys the soul.

Both are the wages of sin (Rom. 6:23) and both will be done away with for those who have placed their faith in Christ, for In Christ, we are free of the second death, yet we still die the physical death. The physical death is temporary as there will one day be a resurrection. The second death is eternal. Adam eventually died physically. But if he died in faith, and that is assuming that he did die in faith despite his disobedience, he will not be subject to the second death, nor will he continue to be subject to the first.

sovereigngrace · Feb 8, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
Revelation 20:14:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

What is the second death? The lake of fire where both body and soul of the unrepentant will be tormented forever and ever. It is not the death of the body since the damned are resurrected to face their final judgment. The first death destroys the body. The second death destroys the soul.

Both are the wages of sin (Rom. 6:23) and both will be done away with for those who have placed their faith in Christ, for In Christ, we are free of the second death, yet we still die the physical death. The physical death is temporary as there will one day be a resurrection. The second death is eternal. Adam eventually died physically. But if he died in faith, and that is assuming that he did die in faith despite his disobedience, he will not be subject to the second death, nor will he continue to be subject to the first.

It is the first to be experienced for the sinner but the second to be punished.

Contenders Edge · Feb 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
While spiritual death came first it is last to be judged. Left unaddressed, it leads to eternal torment.

That is why it is called the second death, because the second death can only be experienced after the first insofar as death pertains to man.

sovereigngrace · Feb 8, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
That is why it is called the second death, because the second death can only be experienced after the first insofar as death pertains to man.

I agree. But we are born spiritually dead.

Contenders Edge · Feb 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
It is the first to be experienced for the sinner but the second to be punished.

You can't experience the second death until after you have succumb to the physical death as the second death is separation from God for all eternity. It is only while we still yet live and breathe do we have a chance to escape it by placing our faith in Christ for our salvation.

Contenders Edge · Feb 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
I agree. But we are born spiritually dead.

We may be born spiritually dead but we have not yet been subject to the lake of fire which is where the second death will be experienced which will only happen for those who die in their sins.

sovereigngrace · Feb 8, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
You can't experience the second death until after you have succumb to the physical death as the second death is separation from God for all eternity. It is only while we still yet live and breathe do we have a chance to escape it by placing our faith in Christ for our salvation.

I agree. The first resurrection is man's only hope of overcoming the second death. That is why it has to be Christ's resurrection. Revelation 20:6 says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Here, the first resurrection is outlined as the means by which men gain victory over the second death and enter into the great company that reign in Christ – both dead and alive; the redeemed reign in life and in death. In life, they are spiritually positioned in the heavenly Jerusalem, in death, they enter into the immediate presence of God and reign through Him that sits upon the throne.

This corresponds to what Jesus taught in John 11:25, saying, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

This is speaking of the resurrection life that can be enjoyed in this life through faith.

Is land restoration a part of the new covenant?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads