LDS One Essence

Revelation 20 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
Satan bound for a thousand years
20 1-3 Then I saw an angel coming down from Heaven with the key of the pit and a huge chain in his hand. He seized the dragon, the serpent of ancient days, who is both the devil and Satan, and bound him fast for a thousand years. Then he hurled him into the pit, and locked and sealed it over his head, so that he could deceive the nations no more until the thousand years were past. But then he must be set free for a little while.

The first resurrection
4-6 And I saw thrones, with appointed judges seated upon them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been executed for their witness to Jesus and for proclaiming the Word of God—those who never worshipped the animal or its statue, and had not accepted its mark upon their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first resurrection. Happy and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! The second death cannot touch such men; they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him for the thousand years.

Satan finally destroyed
7-8 Then, when the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison, and will set out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, and to lead them into battle. They will be as numerous as the sand of the seashore.

9-10 They came up and spread over the breadth of the earth; they encircled the army of the saints defending the beloved city. But fire came down from the sky and consumed them. The devil who deceived them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur to join the animal and the false prophet. And there they shall be tortured day and night for timeless ages.

The final judgment
11 And then I saw a great white throne, and one seated upon it from whose presence both earth and sky fled and vanished.

12-13 Then I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne and the books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books concerning what they had done. The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up the dead which were in them. And men were judged, each according to what he had done.

14-15 Then death and the grave were themselves hurled into the lake of fire, which is the second death. If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:41-46 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
41-43 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Out of my presence, cursed as you are, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was lonely and you never made me welcome. When I was naked you did nothing to clothe me; when I was sick and in prison you never cared about me.’

44 “Then they too will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry, or thirsty, or lonely, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and fail to look after you?’

45 “Then the king will answer them with these words, ‘I assure you that whatever you failed to do to the humblest of my brothers you failed to do to me.’

46 “And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the true men to eternal life.”

Judgments to occur in the future:

The judgments of the tribulation period (Revelation 6—16). These terrible judgments are pictured as seven seals opened, seven trumpets blown, and seven bowls poured out. God’s judgment against the wicked will leave no doubt as to His wrath against sin. Besides punishing sin, these judgments will have the effect of bringing the nation of Israel to repentance.

The judgment seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10). Resurrected (and raptured) believers in heaven will be judged for their works. Sin is not in view at this judgment, as that was paid for by Christ, but only faithfulness in Christian service. Selfish works or those done with wrong motives will be burned up (the “wood, hay, and stubble” of 1 Corinthians 3:12). Works of lasting value to the Lord will survive (the “gold, silver, and precious stones”). Rewards, which the Bible calls “crowns” (Revelation 3:11) will be given by the One who is “not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him” (Hebrews 6:10).

The judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31–46). After the tribulation, the Lord Jesus will sit in judgment over the Gentile nations. They will be judged according to their treatment of Israel during the tribulation. This judgment is also called the judgment of the sheep and the goats because of the imagery Jesus uses in the Olivet Discourse. Those who showed faith in God by treating Israel favorably (giving them aid and comfort during the tribulation) are the “sheep” who will enter into the Millennial Kingdom. Those who followed the Antichrist’s lead and persecuted Israel are the “goats” who will be consigned to hell.

The judgment of angels (1 Corinthians 6:2–3). Paul says that Christians will judge angels. We aren’t exactly sure what this means, but the angels facing judgment would have to be the fallen angels. It seems that Satan’s hordes of demons will be judged by the redeemed ones of the Lamb. Some of these demons are already imprisoned in darkness and awaiting judgment, according Jude 1:6, due to their leaving their proper dwelling place.

The Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11–15). This final judgment of unbelievers for their sins occurs at the end of the Millennium, before the creation of the new heaven and earth. At this judgment, unbelievers from all the ages are judged for their sins and consigned to the lake of fire.

What are all the different judgments in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

He is the way said:

This is not about me or whether I will be saved or not, It is about what Christ told everyone to do. Jesus Christ is the judge and He will judge according to our works:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 1:17)

17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

(New Testament | Revelation 20:12 - 13)

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Click to expand...

When I say "you"---I am not thinking of you personally---I am thinking of the whole of the LDS religion. I quite often fail to make that clear. Obviously it is not you alone who believe these things.
I am trying to get you, and anyone else reading, to think to the full extent of what those believes actually mean---which is separation from the true Godhead of the bible. It is the Jesus of the bible that saves---not the Jesus of JS that he made up. That Jesus can not save. You (LDS) have stripped Him of His power down to --He has the power to make us divine---which He never said He will do. He makes us reflectors of His character, not partakers of the Godhead.

Also---post #370 are the rules of this forum--some of them. Not my own personal opinions.

Andrewn said:

You've repeated this personal sentiment again and again and it makes me uncomfortable. I don't think we have the ability to judge people. But we can critique their beliefs. Also, I don't understand on what basis you can say, "You fail in you self righteousness and can not be covered with the blood of the Savior--for you have rejected Him. You have refused to listen to the true Holy Spirit and listen to a false one." I realize how disturbing their Tritheistic beliefs are. Does God give people a test in Theology before letting them into His Kingdom?

Everyone is saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8).

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life" (John 5:24)

Am I totally wrong?

Click to expand...

As an Anglican, do you worship the Trinity?

Joseph Smith said:
“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372; History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476)

Apostle James E. Talmage said that “the sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil.”

Prophet Spencer W. Kimball said that “one of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation.”

I'm not very familiar with Anglican teachings, but I know Anglicans accept the Nicene Creed.

mmksparbud said:

When I say "you"---I am not thinking of you personally---I am thinking of the whole of the LDS religion. I quite often fail to make that clear. Obviously it is not you alone who believe these things.
I am trying to get you, and anyone else reading, to think to the full extent of what those believes actually mean---which is separation from the true Godhead of the bible. It is the Jesus of the bible that saves---not the Jesus of JS that he made up. That Jesus can not save. You (LDS) have stripped Him of His power down to --He has the power to make us divine---which He never said He will do. He makes us reflectors of His character, not partakers of the Godhead.

Also---post #370 are the rules of this forum--some of them. Not my own personal opinions.

Click to expand...

(New Testament | John 10:34 - 35)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

He is the way said:

(New Testament | John 10:34 - 35)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Click to expand...

Yep--scripture can not be broken:

Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

mmksparbud said:

Yep--scripture can not be broken:

Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

Click to expand...

There is only one Savior. We have been over this many times.

mmksparbud said:

When I say "you"---I am not thinking of you personally---I am thinking of the whole of the LDS religion. I quite often fail to make that clear. Obviously it is not you alone who believe these things.
I am trying to get you, and anyone else reading, to think to the full extent of what those believes actually mean---which is separation from the true Godhead of the bible. It is the Jesus of the bible that saves---not the Jesus of JS that he made up.

That Jesus can not save. You (LDS) have stripped Him of His power down to --He has the power to make us divine-

Click to expand...

--which He never said He will do. He makes us reflectors of His character, not partakers of the Godhead.

Also---post #370 are the rules of this forum--some of them. Not my own personal opinions.

Click to expand...

That Jesus can not save. You (LDS) have stripped Him of His power down to --He has the power to make us divine-

Click to expand...

Again, you are teaching false doctrine about what we believe. Being saved by Jesus is a whole other topic from being made divine by Jesus.

We teach both doctrine, not just that Jesus can make us divine.

Jesus certainly has to save us first, and then he can make us divine if we are saved in the highest level of heaven. People in other levels of heaven will unmarried and as the angels in heaven and will not be made divine.

Only those that overcome this world and sit in his throne will be made divine.

But first he has to save us. We certainly do not strip the saving power of Jesus away from him, why do you think we believe in him? He is the only name under heaven that can save, that is why.

So stop making statements about our faith that is false.

Peter1000 said:

Again, you are teaching false doctrine about what we believe. Being saved by Jesus is a whole other topic from being made divine by Jesus.

We teach both doctrine, not just that Jesus can make us divine.

Jesus certainly has to save us first, and then he can make us divine if we are saved in the highest level of heaven. People in other levels of heaven will unmarried and as the angels in heaven and will not be made divine.

Only those that overcome this world and sit in his throne will be made divine.

But first he has to save us. We certainly do not strip the saving power of Jesus away from him, why do you think we believe in him? He is the only name under heaven that can save, that is why.

So stop making statements about our faith that is false.

Click to expand...

The LDS strip Him of His power---you teach that He did not create from nothing, He just changes existing matter around. You make of Him a much lesser God than the bible teaches. I posted some of those in post 671. I never mentioned that you had stripped Him of His power to save. The LDS version of the Godhead is totally different from that of the bible.

He is the way said:

There is only one Savior. We have been over this many times.

Click to expand...

There is only One Father, Son, Holy Ghost. We have been over this many times. Jesus is not another son of God who had a grandfather. He is the only Savior. But you (LDS) teach that those who obtain exaltation and get another world to be the God of, will have another Savior of that planet. So you do actually tr
each more than one Savior. One Savior to a planet. The bible teaches He is the Savior of the universe, the One God of the whole universe, for He created everything. When He saves---sin will be dead for the universe---no other planet will ever need to have another savior for their sins----He died once for all.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Nah 1:9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.

mmksparbud said:

There is only One Father, Son, Holy Ghost. We have been over this many times. Jesus is not another son of |God who had a grandfather. He is the only Savior. But you (LDS) teach that those who obtain exaltation and get another world to be the God of, will have another Savior of that planet. So you do actually trach more than one Savior. One Savior to a planet. The bible teaches He is the Savior of the universe, the One God of the whole universe, for He created everything. When He saves---sin will be dead for the universe---no other planet will ever need to have another savior for their sins----He died once for all.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Nah 1:9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.

Click to expand...

We have also been over this many times, Jesus Christ is our brother and God the Father is His God and Father as the Bible states:

(New Testament | Romans 15:6 - 7)

6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 10)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

He is the way said:

We have also been over this many times, Jesus Christ is our brother and God the Father is His God and Father as the Bible states:

(New Testament | Romans 15:6 - 7)

6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 10)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Click to expand...

Yes, we've been over this many times----Jesus is our brother in His humanity only, we are not sharers of His divinity. Again---and you all =say this all the time when it comes to the Trinity---but not when it comes to humanity with the Trinity---ONE IN THOUGHT AND PURPOSE.
We will never be divine---He is forever God--we will be forever glorified humans. Jesus is both human and divine. We are just human---created beings along with the angels--we are all created not actual, physical children of God--we never existed before being born! We are adopted children of God and thus we can inherit as His children, but we can never become divine. Divinity does not come about for created beings.

He is the way said:

We have also been over this many times, Jesus Christ is our brother and God the Father is His God and Father as the Bible states:

(New Testament | Romans 15:6 - 7)

6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 10)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Click to expand...

Question: "Is Jesus our brother?"

Answer: The Bible clearly presents Jesus Christ as being one with the Father (John 10:30), a Member of the triune Godhead who set aside His rights as God and took on human flesh to dwell among us (Philippians 2:5–11; Galatians 4:4–5). Therefore, it is right to call Him Savior and Lord (Luke 2:11; 2 Peter 3:18; Jude 1:25). However, a few passages also refer to Jesus as our brother (Hebrews 2:11; Romans 8:29; Mark 3:34). In order to fully understand the concept of Jesus as our brother, let’s look more closely at each of those passages:

• Hebrews 2:11 says, “For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers” (ESV).

The word translated “brothers” is the word used for blood relatives, but it also refers to Christians. The generic term brother in Scripture usually also includes sisters. In this passage, the writer of Hebrews is explaining how the perfect God-Man, Jesus, could call imperfect humans His brothers and sisters.

This is more easily understood in terms of physical relationships. Jesus explained spiritual realities by telling Nicodemus that he must be “born again” (John 3:3). He used this physical term because we all understand birth. When two babies have shared the same womb or the same father, they are of the same family. They carry similar DNA, inherited traits, and rights to claim parentage. When a human being is born into the family of God, through faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus, God becomes our Father (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:4–6). This happens through an act of the Holy Spirit who moves into our spirits and begins to change us (2 Corinthians 5:17). God is also the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, and we share in that relationship as adopted children. Jesus, our brother, purchased with His blood the right for us to call His Father our Father. He is not ashamed to call us brothers because His righteousness is imputed to us, making us blameless as He is blameless (2 Corinthians 5:21).

• Romans 8:29 says, “Those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.”

Some cults have misinterpreted this verse to mean that Jesus was only the first of God’s many adopted children. However, in the Bible, the word firstborn does not always refer to physical or even spiritual birth; rather, being “firstborn” implies preeminence and position, as it is used in Psalm 89:27: “I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.” In Jeremiah 31:9, God calls the nation of Israel His “firstborn son.” So when Paul uses the term firstborn in Romans 8:29, he means that Jesus holds the preeminent position of “only begotten Son of God” (John 3:16) and that, through His obedience to the Father, Christ made it possible for His holy Father to adopt unholy human beings as His own children. The resurrection of Christ was the first of many to follow, as God gathers His children home (1 Corinthians 15:20–23).

• In Mark 3:34–35, Jesus declares that those who follow Him are His brothers: “He looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.’”

The setting for this statement is a house where Jesus was teaching. His physical family had begun to worry about Him, and they had come to take Him home with them. As they waited outside the packed house, messengers informed Jesus of their presence. Seated around Jesus were the disciples. His statement told everyone that, while earthly relationships are important, spiritual relationships are those that last. From then on, He would be focused upon establishing those eternal relationships with everyone who trusted in Him.

It is important to note that the qualifier for being considered Jesus’ brother or sister is not the mental exercise of “believing,” since many in the room with Jesus in Mark 3 would have considered themselves believers in Him. The qualifier for being a brother or sister of Christ is “doing the will of the Father.” The ultimate will of the Father is that we love, trust, and obey His Son (John 3:36; 2 Thessalonians 1:8; Romans 2:7–8). When we believe in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ and surrender our lives to His lordship, God adopts us into His family and considers us “joint heirs” with His Son, Jesus (Romans 8:17; 10:9–10). Our heavenly Father wants His children to bear a family resemblance, and He gave us the perfect example in our big Brother, Jesus Christ.

Recommended Resource: God the Son Incarnate: The Doctrine of Christ by Stephen Wellum
Is Jesus our brother? | GotQuestions.org

Andrewn said:

Of course, I believe the Nicene Creed. I memorized the Creed before turning 10, which most people cannot claim. You need only to read my posts from the beginning of this thread to realize that I have absolutely no doubt about the Holy Trinity. Unfortunately computers and the internet made it easier for a lot of people to write than to read. It takes more time to read and to understand what we read.

I've never met anyone in the LDS church and have absolutely no reason to defend their beliefs. I made a strong defense of Trinitarianism in this thread and rejected LDS views, hopefully without attacking anyone personally. I worship a God of Love and Truth and hope to be able to present these qualities in my interactions. I resent personal attacks and consider them intellectual terrorism.

Click to expand...

I sincerely apologize that you viewed my questions as an attack on you personally. A question is a request for information. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

Andrewn said:

You're right. Jesus Christ is our brother and God the Father is His God and Father. Jesus Christ is undoubtedly our brother in humanity. And we confess belief in God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.

Click to expand...

Neither is Jesus Christ the only Son of God. He is the only begotten of God the Father in the flesh, but we are all children of God the Father:

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:6)

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 9)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

(New Testament | Romans 8:16 - 21)

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.