Does Spirit baptism still happen today by the laying on of hands?

Hillsage · Feb 7, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Wow. That's great connection, thanks!

So, do you agree with my take on Acts nineteen?
That the reason that Paul asked the believers in Ephesus whether they had received the Spirit when they believed was probably because they were not speaking in tongues or manifesting any other gifts, like prophecy? Both of which came to them when he laid hands on them.

Absolutely I believe that's what Paul was asking. Without the baptism of the Holy Spirit the church of God had no spoken word from God. All they had was scriptures from when God last spoke to the prophets 400 years earlier. If you were a Christian, having the born again Sspirit of Christ in you and the power of the Holy Spirit upon you, you were equipped for LIFE for you and for ministering LIFE to others.

The holy spirit of Christ in you is what produced the "fruit of the Spirit (Sspirit of Christ) to grow your life (CHARACTER of GOD). And the Holy Spirit of God is the Spirit that manifests the "POWER" "PROMISE of God" in your life, for ministry through you to others or ministry to yourself...as in the power gift of prayer tongues for and from your spirit. This gift was necessary for every believer then just as it is now...That was what Peter preached when he said;

ACT 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39* For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."

According to the bold above, if you were called to be a Christian, the promise/gift of holy spirit POWER from the person of the Holy Spirit IS FOR YOU TODAY.

The error of fundamentalism and Charismatics is they think "the Promise OF THE Father" is the person of the Holy Spirit. And they think "the Gift OF THE Holy Spirit" is the Holy Spirit. Problem is, the Greek word for "OF THE" is the same in both of those verses. But nobody thinks the "promise OF THE Father" means you are getting the Father. Oh consistency thou art a jewel to be sought for. Even for the simple minded Christians.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 7, 2020

Hillsage said:
The naysayers will say that the baptism of John was before people could be saved. But that is not true. We all still need to be baptized/immersed in repentance before getting saved. We just don't add the 'ritual' of water to the first baptism of the spiritual 'reality' of repentance. That's now passed on to the second baptism in Jesus name. This is supported in the previous chapter where Apollos accurately.

ACT 18:24 Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, well versed in the scriptures.
25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John.
26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue; but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him and expounded to him the way of God more accurately.

As you can see, Apollos was also a born again believer only knowing John's baptism of repentance. The "more accurate way of the Lord" Priscilla and Aquila taught Apollos is obviously the third baptism of power (tongues) from the Holy Spirit which Paul teaches the "baptism of John" disciples in the next chapter. Just a bad place to have a chapter break IMO.

I believe water baptism is to fulfill all righteousness, but it is not a salvation issue. The real baptism that plays a part in our salvation today is the receiving of the Spirit. (Note: This was not the case before Pentecost or in special cases like with Simon the sorcerer; For a person could be saved without the Spirit during that time period. The Spirit was eventually going to indwell them at a certain point, too). For the Spirit is the guaranteed promise of our inheritance (if we continue to abide in the New Covenant contract). Apollos and the Ephesians needed to be brought up to speed on the true baptism (Which was Spirit baptism or the receiving of the Holy Spirit). Back then, this included the speaking of tongues in many cases. I believe under normative circumstances: The receiving of the Spirit today happens when a person first accepts Christ.

But I do not believe that speaking in tongues needs to happen so as to show that a person has received the Spirit. Paul says, "do all speak in tongues?" (1 Corinthians 12:30).

FineLinen · Feb 7, 2020

I remember in the wee Evangelical Church where I first met the Lord (Hope Gospel) a deep cry that would not be satisfied with being simply saved. I had keys to the church and would spend whole nights falling asleep at the altar crying out to Him.

Days became weeks, weeks became years and finally while walking to work early one morning with the deep cry continuing I said Lord "Give me words to express how much I love You."

I could not speak in English for two weeks. Yes, the anointing of the Spirit is a present day ongoing experience of "be being" leading into vast areas of Him.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 7, 2020

David66j said:
When we are baptized (baptizo=plunged into water) we bury our old life and are reborn into Christ it is at baptism we receive the free gift of the Holy Spirit. No laying on of hands is required.
Only the apostles could lay on hands an perform miracles, when the apostles died it was done with miracles and laying on of hands...
Christian Forums

Baptism is not for the remission of sins. It is repentance (seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ) that actually remits sin. Baptism was merely the symbolic ceremony that represents what is happening to a person when they call upon the name of the Lord to be saved (Romans 10:13). If baptism was for the remission of sins, then Paul would have never said that he did not come to baptize (1 Corinthians 1:17). Peter says that baptism saves not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (i.e. sin), but it is an answer to having an already clean conscience before God (1 Peter 3:21) (Note: Similar wording for the words "filth of the flesh" is used as in reference to sin in 2 Corinthians 7:1). So Peter is saying, baptism does not save you in the putting away sin, but it is answering the call that one already has a clean conscience.

John the Baptist says,

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" (Matthew 3:11).

Notice what John says here. He says he baptizes with water... UNTO REPENTANCE. This means baptism leads to "repentance." (Which is what saves). It is repentance (confessing sin to the Lord) that is doing the actual saving. When John was baptizing they were confessing their sins to the Lord. Men were saved without baptism. Cornelius and his family received the Spirit and were saved by hearing the gospel without water baptism.

Also, John says there is yet a future event, where Jesus will baptize you will the Holy Spirit. This is the true baptism that saves today.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 7, 2020

Hillsage said:
A foreign language would not live up to the clearly written verse IMO.

1CO 14:2* For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

I don't know how you can justify your personal take because this clearly does not meet any "real foreign language" guidelines IMO.

I believe the church of Corinth understood all the 3 different tongues there were, and therefore Paul never wrote specifically to that which 'they' already knew experientially. But were guilty of an immature mis application of them...just like so many today do. So that's when it behooves us to "rightly divide" the larger category of "tongues" to apply a correct understanding that we're talking about ONE of THREE. Below is my breakdown and scripturally based opinion.

There are TWO SOURCES of tongues.
1. MY SPIRIT (1Co 14:14)
2. THE HOLY SPIRIT (1Co 12:11)

There are THREE PURPOSES of tongues.

1. Self edification. (1Cor 14:4)

2. Church edification. (1Cor 14:4, 5)

3. World edification. (Acts 2:8)

There are three categories of tongues with three purposes.

1. Prayer tongues, FROM. MY SPIRIT (1Cor 14:14) PRAYING to God, as I will, for SELF- EDIFICATION (1Cor 14:4) (angelic/spiritual/heavenly language).

2. Tongues WITH interpretation FROM...THE Holy Spirit and manifested individually, as HE wills, for CHURCH EDIFICATION (unknown language to giver AND interpreter, but MAY be a known tongue of man). Tongues with interpretation is 2 gifts equal to prophecy (1Cor 14:5). (Spiritual/heavenly but also tongues of man/earthly)

3. Tongues WITHOUT interpretation for ministry of the gospel for WORLD EDIFICATION. Known languages of man, unknown to giver, known to receiver (Acts 2:8).

The purpose of tongues is given to us in 1 Corinthians 14:22.

It says,

"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe." (1 Corinthians 14:22).

So if your goal or purpose for tongues is not for the use for the unbeliever to hear, then it defeats its true and ultimate purpose as defined in Scripture.

"In the law it is written, with men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people (Jews); and yet for all that (all the tongues) will they (Jews) not hear me (warning ignored), saith the Lord". 1 Corinthians 14:21. Tongues here clearly are a warning to the Jews that they ignore. 1 Corinthians 14:21 is quoting from Deuteronomy 28:49 where God warns of judgment coming from "a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand."

Tongues were for a sign that the Jews looked for. 1 Corinthians 1:22 says, “For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:” But Jesus says, “ An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;” (Matthew 12:39).

The tower of Babel was a sign of judgment from GOD. When the language was confused, it was a sign of God's judgment. When the Israelites were conquered by Babylon, they heard foreign tongues. They went into the Babylonian captivity. So the Jews would know that the hearing of foreign tongues (not some other worldly tongue) was a sign of judgment against them.

The interpreter would then interpret that foreign language as a message for that Jew to seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ (that could have possibly included some other kind of Word that they needed to hear in order to make it personal for them in God talking to their heart to seek forgiveness with the Messiah, Jesus Christ).

Hillsage · Feb 7, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
But I do not believe that speaking in tongues needs to happen so as to show that a person has received the Spirit. Paul says, "do all speak in tongues?" (1 Corinthians 12:30).

Paul said 'all don't' because they had the same reality of "ungifted", but born again Christians back then, that we still do today.

Corinth was "simply" a 100% charismatic but immature church;

NAS 1CO 14:23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues,

And into that whole Charismatic church enter BOTH "ungifted" Christians and "unbeliever".

24 But if all prophesy, and...an unbeliever...or...an ungifted man...enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;

I know you're not interested in Greek, (which would disqualify me from even being in the UNORTHODOX forum, as far as I'm concerned)...BUT....for others reading; Other simple English translations also translate the Greek word idiotes as those who are "KJV unlearned" or "NIV who do not understand". Those are simple English translations too, indicating a spiritual LACK. For the Corinthians it was Character FRUIT of the Spirit of Christ. For the "ungifted" it was th supernatural POWER GIFT of the Spirit of God.

And those same "ungifted/unlearned/those who do not understand" born again non tongue speaker CHRISTIANS fill the church today too. And many of them 'HERE at CF' still consider us as "drunk" like the 'ungifted' people did at Pentecost. And those same "ungifted" Christians today might just as well call us "mad" every time they say we speak "babbel and gibberish". So Paul's warning still applies that we immature Charismatics today still need to accommodate those "ungifted" Christians who "do not all speak in tongues" as in the day of Paul.

The problem for us Charismatics is we're still, as a WHOLE, still immature like Corinth and not walking in the fullness of the Character fruit of Christ (love, joy, peace etc.). If ONLY we manifested a greater measure of the Holy Spirit's gift, of supernatural "prophesy" to reveal the hearts of the "ungifted, unlearned".

1CO 14:25 the secrets of his (ungifted/unbeliever's) heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

It's no wonder you guys can't "declare God is certainly among us" when all we manifest is the supernatural power of the least 'gift of tongues' from our spirit to God. Especially when we fail to manifest the character of spiritual fruit to temper the clang of the spiritual gift.

So the sad reality is we just end up with two CHRISTIAN groups of immature believers fighting each other rather than growing up into spiritual maturity TOGETHER.

Hillsage · Feb 7, 2020

[/QUOTE]

FineLinen said:
I remember in the wee Evangelical Church where I first met the Lord (Hope Gospel) a deep cry that would not be satisfied with being simply saved. I had keys to the church and would spend whole nights falling asleep at the altar crying out to Him.

Days became weeks, weeks became years and finally while walking to work early one morning with the deep cry continuing I said Lord "Give me words to express how much I love You."

I could not speak in English for two weeks. Yes, the anointing of the Spirit is a present day ongoing experience of "be being" leading into vast areas of Him.

great testimony brother. You met the simple biblical mandate to receive when you "earnestly desired the spiritual gifts". One will never receive/lambano, when all they do is earnestly deny. And that is simply the truth and reality of much of the church today.

The spiritual mind/soul of Christ within, fighting against the nonspiritual mind/soul of flesh within, will never receive the gifts of the Spirit.

JAM 1:6 But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, 8 being a double-minded/psuche/souled man...

The devil only needs to 'divide and conquer' by feeding the carnal mind food to fight the spiritual mind.

Hillsage · Feb 7, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
The purpose of tongues is given to us in 1 Corinthians 14:22.

It says,

"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe." (1 Corinthians 14:22).

So if your goal or purpose for tongues is not for the use for the unbeliever to hear, then it defeats its true and ultimate purpose as defined in Scripture.

You can't tell me your simple understanding of the truth when you don't even know which TONGUE verse 22 is speaking about. That's just where I'm at in my understanding. And my experience as well as theology doesn't match your understanding and dissertation of this verse.

GaveMeJoy · Feb 7, 2020

Saint Steven said:
More ridiculous claims.
Have you ever spoken in tongues? If not, you have no idea how close it makes one feel to God. Your claim that Charismatics aren't seeking Jesus is ridiculous. James calls our tongue our most unruly member. Those who speak in tongues have yielded that member to God.

Nevertheless, the abuse of tongues and pretend speaking in tongues without edifying is just as rampant now as it was in the Corinthian church

Bible Highlighter · Feb 7, 2020

Hillsage said:
You can't tell me your simple understanding of the truth when you don't even know which TONGUE verse 22 is speaking about. That's just where I'm at in my understanding. And my experience as well as theology doesn't match your understanding and dissertation of this verse.

1 Corinthians 14:2, and 1 Corinthians 14:28 are commonly used to defend a private prayer language in tongues.

However, what is 1 Corinthians 14:2 saying?

In context, this is talking about the misuse of tongues or publically speaking a real foreign language (i.e. tongues) towards God (without an interpreter), and it is not a private prayer in tongues behind closed doors. How so? Well, the passage says that no man understands him.

"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; "
(1 Corinthians 14:1-2).

How can a man not understand them if they are praying in tongues behind closed doors? The idea here that "no man understands him" means they are wrongfully talking to God publically around other believers without an interpreter.

As for 1 Corinthians 14:28:

Some try to defend this practice by pointing to 1 Corinthians 14:28. It says,

“But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.” (1 Corinthians 14:28).

But it does not clearly say that they are praying in tongues to God in private, though. How can we be sure? Well, Paul's admonition about how we need to pray with the understanding (1 Corinthians 14:15), and how tongues are for unbelievers (1 Corinthians 14:22) leads me to believe that this is not talking about praying in tongues behind closed doors (or in the privacy of one's closet).

What is one of the purposes of the gifts?

“To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.”
(1 Corinthians 12:7) (ESV).

“As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.” (1 Peter 4:10) (NASB).

Paul’s whole point of the proper use of tongues was for the mutual edification of the body of the church as it’s intended real function (1 Corinthians 14:5) (1 Corinthians 14:12), and the edification of oneself (1 Corinthians 14:4) appears to be negative because Paul says that one is like a barbarian (1 Corinthians 14:11), and mad to others (1 Corinthians 14:23), and Paul would prefer to speak 5 words with the understanding vs. 10,000 words without the understanding (1 Corinthians 14:19).

What was Jesus’s view of praying?

Jesus says,

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”
(Matthew 6:7).

Praying in tongues in private seems awfully close to how not to pray. How does the private prayer tongue speaker know they are not speaking in vain repetitions? Do they think they are heard for their much speaking by such practice? While I am not saying that Pentecostals or Charismatics are not operating by the power of God when they pray in tongues, I am saying that Scripture does not clearly support this practice that they are partaking of, and there are verses that appear to speak against such a thing.

There is no verse that says,

"And Paul prayed in tongues to God behind closed doors."

"God desires us to pray to the Lord in tongues when nobody is around."

Inferences are made off two verses in 1 Corinthians 14 (When Paul was actually criticizing the wrong use of tongues).

Hillsage · Feb 7, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
1 Corinthians 14:2, and 1 Corinthians 14:28 are commonly used to defend a private prayer language in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:2, and 1 Corinthians 14:28 are commonly used to defend a private prayer language in tongues.

However, what is 1 Corinthians 14:2 saying?

In context, this is talking about the misuse of tongues or publically speaking a real foreign language (i.e. tongues) towards God (without an interpreter), and it is not a private prayer in tongues behind closed doors. How so? Well, the passage says that no man understands him.

"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; "
(1 Corinthians 14:1-2).

How can a man not understand them if they are praying in tongues behind closed doors? The idea here that "no man understands him" means they are wrongfully talking to God publically around other believers without an interpreter.

As for 1 Corinthians 14:28:

Some try to defend this practice by pointing to 1 Corinthians 14:28. It says,

“But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.” (1 Corinthians 14:28).

But it does not clearly say that they are praying in tongues to God in private, though. How can we be sure? Well, Paul's admonition about how we need to pray with the understanding (1 Corinthians 14:15), and how tongues are for unbelievers (1 Corinthians 14:22) leads me to believe that this is not talking about praying in tongues behind closed doors (or in the privacy of one's closet).

What is one of the purposes of the gifts?

“To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.”
(1 Corinthians 12:7) (ESV).

“As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.” (1 Peter 4:10) (NASB).

Paul’s whole point of the proper use of tongues was for the mutual edification of the body of the church (1 Corinthians 14:5) (1 Corinthians 14:12), and the edification of oneself (1 Corinthians 14:4) appears to be negative because Paul says that one is like a barbarian (1 Corinthians 14:11), and mad to others (1 Corinthians 14:23), and Paul would prefer to speak 5 words with the understanding vs. 10,000 words without the understanding (1 Corinthians 14:19).

What was Jesus’s view of praying?

Jesus says,

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”
(Matthew 6:7).

Praying in tongues in private seems awfully close to how not to pray. How does the private prayer tongue speaker know they are not speaking in vain repetitions? Do they think they are heard for their much speaking by such practice? While I am not saying that Pentecostals or Charismatics are not operating by the power of God when they pray in tongues, I am saying that Scripture does not clearly support this practice that they are partaking of, and there are verses that appear to speak against such a thing.

There is no verse that says,

"And Paul prayed in tongues to God behind closed doors."

"God desires us to pray to the Lord in tongues when nobody is around."

Inferences are made off two verses in 1 Corinthians 14 (When Paul was actually criticizing the wrong use of tongues).

There's a saying BH;
"A man convinced AGAINST HIS WILL is of the same opinion still."

If you aren't wanting to receive/lambano anything, because you think you already got everything when you received/decomai the salvation of your holy born again spirit, then I'm probably not the one you need to visit with. Your walk is just too superficial (my experience) for me to go back to. I too was born again into where you are. I also do admit I don't even line up with the Charismatics theology, let alone a fundamental or cessasionists theology. So since you're proving to me that you are dead set on staying where you are, I'm willing to support your decision.

Hillsage · Feb 7, 2020

double posted

Bible Highlighter · Feb 7, 2020

Hillsage said:
There's a saying BH;
"A man convinced AGAINST HIS WILL is of the same opinion still."

If you aren't wanting to receive/lambano anything, because you think you already got everything when you received/decomai the salvation of your holy born again spirit, then I'm probably not the one you need to visit with. Your walk is just too superficial (my experience) for me to go back to. I too was born again into where you are. I also do admit I don't even line up with the Charismatics theology, let alone a fundamental or cessasionists theology. So since you're proving to me that you are dead set on staying where you are, I'm willing to support your decision.

This is not really an explanation to the points I made, but I believe it is just an espousing you’re opinion and your personal experience, my friend. The Word of God trumps both in my opinion. But we can agree to disagree in love and respect out of our love and service to Jesus Christ. For me: The Bible needs to be absolutely clear in order to hold to a particular belief or practice.

Hillsage · Feb 7, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
This is not really an explanation to the points I made, but I believe it is just an espousing you’re opinion and your personal experience, my friend.

That's because you haven't responded or refuted anything I've already spent a lot of time presenting.

The Word of God trumps both in my opinion. But we can agree to disagree in love and respect out of our love and service to Jesus Christ. For me: The Bible needs to be absolutely clear in order to hold to a particular belief or practice.

You will never find anything to be absolutely clear....that's why there's 666 different denominations all claiming 'they have the truth' and everyone else is wrong.

Saint Steven · Feb 7, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Despite what others may imply wrongfully about what I believe, I surely do believe we receive the Spirit when we accept Christ as our Savior, seek forgiveness with Him, and believe in His death, burial, and resurrection on our behalf for salvation.

I don't think anyone is arguing against that point. We are referring to the subsequent experience of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, which is different than the initial indwelling that comes. I thought that is what the topic was about. Whether the Baptism with the Holy Spirit requires the laying on of hands.

Do you actually believe that the Spirit did not indwell new believers in the NT era? That they did not receive the Spirit at all unless hands were laid on them?

Saint Steven · Feb 7, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Nevertheless, the abuse of tongues and pretend speaking in tongues without edifying is just as rampant now as it was in the Corinthian church

Nonsense.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 7, 2020

Hillsage said:
That's because you haven't responded or refuted anything I've already spent a lot of time presenting.

I will attempt to address your points in Scripture maybe late tonight or Monday morning when I have more time (Lord willing). I am merely put forth what I believe Scripture says so as to avoid in doing so. But seeing you are not accepting the points I made, I will seek to explain to the best of what I know (according to His Word) on the verses you mentioned.

You said:
You will never find anything to be absolutely clear....that's why there's 666 different denominations all claiming 'they have the truth' and everyone else is wrong.

While John 16:13 is more in reference to the early church and or writers of the New Testament, I do believe the Spirit will guide us into all truth (Which today: It would be via by His Word, i.e. Scripture).

Hillsage · Feb 7, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I will attempt to address your points in Scripture maybe late tonight or Monday morning when I have more time (Lord willing). I am merely put forth what I believe Scripture says so as to avoid in doing so. But seeing you are not accepting the points I made, I will seek to explain to the best of what I know (according to His Word) on the verses you mentioned.

While John 16:13 is more in reference to the early church and or writers of the New Testament, I do believe the Spirit will guide us into all truth (Which today: It would be via by His Word, i.e. Scripture).

Don't worry about doing that because Saint Steve is wrong

. I am one of those do not believe you got the Holy Spirit of God at rebirth of your spirit. You got the holy spirit of Christ.

That's one of the main points I disagree with traditional Charismatic theology too. So if you believe that then there's no sense dealing with all the subsequent things we also have differing opinions on. But the teaching and understanding of us not getting the Holy Spirit (my belief) requires some understanding of the Greek to discuss it. So I still think you might as well not address my other unaddressed posts.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 7, 2020

Hillsage said:
Don't worry about doing that because Saint Steve is wrong . I am one of those do not believe you got the Holy Spirit of God at rebirth of your spirit. You got the holy spirit of Christ.

That's one of the main points I disagree with traditional Charismatic theology too. So if you believe that then there's no sense dealing with all the subsequent things we also have differing opinions on. But the teaching and understanding of us not getting the Holy Spirit (my belief) requires some understanding of the Greek to discuss it. So I still think you might as well not address my other unaddressed posts.

I believe we receive Christ in the new birth, too. I believe even those who crossed the Red Sea drank of this rock (1 Corinthians 10:1-4). Unfortunately many of them did not always continue to abide in the vine, and thus many perished in the wilderness.

As for your refusal to continue to discuss these New Testament Scriptures in English: Did you repent and accept Jesus by hearing Kione Greek? What if you lived during the time when all they had was a KJV and you did not have access to any of the original languages? Does not James say that God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith? So a poor guy on the street can be more rich in faith than any scholar. In fact, Jesus said beware of the scribes. The scribes are those who “tran-Scribed” the Law or the Scriptures. So the scribes are the scholars of our day. This is not to say they cannot be right on certain things, it just means we should not look to them as an ultimate guide.

Anyways, I will try to address your points, not for your benefit (if you refuse to hear), but so as to keep my word and so as to help others who may come across this forum in search for the truth.

In any event, while we may disagree, may God’s love shine upon you greatly today.

Side Note:

By the way, did not thousands receive salvation and the Holy Ghost at Pentecost?

Saint Steven · Feb 7, 2020

Hillsage said:
Don't worry about doing that because Saint Steve is wrong . I am one of those do not believe you got the Holy Spirit of God at rebirth of your spirit. You got the holy spirit of Christ.

Half the time I forget, and the other half of the time I am speaking a language they can understand. - lol

Does Spirit baptism still happen today by the laying on of hands?

Does Spirit baptism still happen today by the laying on of hands?

Yes.

No.

Not sure.

Sometimes. It depends on the situation.

Other (Please explain).

One 4 Him & Him 4 all

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

One 4 Him & Him 4 all

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One 4 Him & Him 4 all

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

One 4 Him & Him 4 all

One 4 Him & Him 4 all

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

One 4 Him & Him 4 all

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

You can call me Steve

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