Romney Will Vote To Convict Trump

hislegacy said:

Romney voted guilty on the first, not guilty on the second.

President is acquitted on both counts.

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Yeah -- I guess Romney did not get his wish.

TLK Valentine said:

It's "put up or shut up" time... if this is a coup, someone should be arrested for it. Who do you want tossed in jail over this?

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people that break the law - when they "leak" protected conversations between the U.S. President and other government leaders when those conversations are still "classified" and not for public consumption - should face "consequences".

Doubly so once we all see that once they forced the transcript to go public and we all see that it was all a reuse conducted with the hope that the transcript would never be released (since making those conversations public undermines the office of the presidency)..

hislegacy said:

Romney voted guilty on the first, not guilty on the second.

President is acquitted on both counts.

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Correct, hardly a sign of heroism, more likely an effort to appear very special - as opposed to every single other senator who voted the same on both articles.

Bodhicitta said:

Correct, hardly a sign of heroism, more likely an effort to appear very special - as opposed to every single other senator who voted the same on both articles.

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I disagree. Romney voted his conscience based on the evidence presented.....he explained his reasoning very clearly. Voting one's conscience, informed by one's faith and principles, should not be heroic in the US Senate...but in this context, it is.

His colleagues will go down in history as hypocrites who have no convictions.

BobRyan said:

people that break the law - when they "leak" protected conversations between the U.S. President and other government leaders when those conversations are still "classified" and not for public consumption - should face "consequences".

Doubly so once we all see that once they forced the transcript to go public and we all see that it was all a reuse conducted with the hope that the transcript would never be released (since making those conversations public undermines the office of the presidency)..

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Well, if you're specifically referring to the Ukraine conversation, the OAS already determined that withholding aid to them was illegal, which means any action (including the subsequent phone call) in furtherance of that act was part of the same illegal business.

Whistleblower laws exist to protect people who report such events -- and no president, not even Donald, is above those laws.

Now, in terms of leaks in general, Donald does indeed have a problem; his office continues to leak like a condemned roof -- there's a reason for this, and it ain't the "deep state." But most of those leaks only serve to make him look like a blithering buffoon -- embarrassing, to be sure, but hardly "classified."

Exposing a president as a blithering buffoon isn't nearly as undermining to the office of the presidency as the president being a blithering buffoon would be... clearly, Donald's got bigger problems.

wing2000 said:

I disagree. Romney voted his conscience based on the evidence presented.....he explained his reasoning very clearly. Voting one's conscience, informed by one's faith and principles, should not be heroic in the US Senate...but in this context, it is.

His colleagues will go down in history as hypocrites who have no convictions.

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I wrote "every single other senator voted the same on both articles." That means every Democrat voted the same - Guilty. So are they also "hypocrites who have no convictions."?

Some Senators are TrueBelievers, but undoubtedly some of them were just cowed into supporting Trump, fearing reprisals from Trump, conservative media, and the TrumpFans who follow along; and I think it more likely that Romney just had less to lose than the other Senators.

Romney is quite wealthy; he had a very successful career in the private sector and a respectable term as the governor of Massachusetts. Prior to 2019, he hadn't held political office in 12 years, so he was kinda-sorta coming out of forced retirement to take this Senate gig. He's not up for re-election until 2024, at which point he'll be 77, so who knows if he'll even run again. And my understanding of his Mormon base is that they aren't as stridently pro-Trump as evangelicals.

iluvatar5150 said:

Some Senators are TrueBelievers, but undoubtedly some of them were just cowed into supporting Trump, fearing reprisals from Trump, conservative media, and the TrumpFans who follow along; and I think it more likely that Romney just had less to lose than the other Senators.

Romney is quite wealthy; he had a very successful career in the private sector and a respectable term as the governor of Massachusetts. Prior to 2019, he hadn't held political office in 12 years, so he was kinda-sorta coming out of forced retirement to take this Senate gig. He's not up for re-election until 2024, at which point he'll be 77, so who knows if he'll even run again. And my understanding of his Mormon base is that they aren't as stridently pro-Trump as evangelicals.

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Romney doesn't have as much to lose because many Mormons will respect his vote of conscience. The same cannot be said of many of the so-called evangelical voters.

BobRyan said:

I don't think his niece Ronna should be required to pay for what her uncle does. He is on the way out - she is on the way in.

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Bodhicitta said:

Correct, hardly a sign of heroism, more likely an effort to appear very special - as opposed to every single other senator who voted the same on both articles.

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I thought these Tweets were interesting: The first, "Romney's vote to convict Trump on Article 1 puts one person in a very awkward position: his niece, and RNC chair, Ronna McDaniel. She's close to Trump and his campaign manager Brad Parscale, and speaks with both often. Trump regularly complains to her about her uncle."

And the second: "Per one RNC insider: "Ronna Romney McDaniel better declare her uncle persona non grata or there will be a major push by Trumpers in the RNC to censure the junior senator from Utah and perhaps, just perhaps, oust her.""

I think those Tweets say a lot about Romney's "heroism" in voting for conviction, even on one count -- and helps further demonstrate Trump's pushing Republican's to vote acquittal, paying off Senators (we know he "bribed" several with money for their campaigns) and threatening retribution (such as censure) if they do not vote as instructed.

Yttrium said:

I had vowed that if no Republican votes to convict Trump, I would never vote for a Republican for anything ever again. But now Romney is going to vote to convict on the abuse of power charge. My hero. I now see a tiny glimmer of hope that the Republicans may one day bounce back from their terrible journey into darkness.

Impeachment trial of President Trump: Live updates - CNNPolitics

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That's because Mitt Romney has morals and integrity ,because of his Mormon faith. One thing I can say about Mormons . They try hard to live Godly lives. Sadly, most Republicans in office don't have those standards. And it seems to be getting worse.This isn't a glimmer of home.

hislegacy said:

Romney voted guilty on the first, not guilty on the second.

President is acquitted on both counts.

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And Donald makes history again -- being the first impeached president in history to have a Senator from his own party vote to convict him.

BobRyan said:

After that State of the Union Address - precious few republicans will be looking for "going back to what it was before" in terms of the Nation and economy etc.

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Yeah, who'd want to go back to an economy with only 2% GDP growth. Oh wait - U.S. Economic Growth Slowed In 2019 To 2.3%

In other words, most of this "the economy was so terrible under Obama" nonsense is simply that - revisionist nonsense. The economy under Donald's first term is basically indistinguishable from that under Obama's second.

iluvatar5150 said:

With Trump being so prone to ridiculous, juvenile antics, I imagine he'll keep himself in the limelight as long as he can manage it.

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That plus all the pending criminal indictments.

Well, Romney is a joke here in Utah. Republicans are calling for him to step down, which won’t happen. Democrats are praising his courage. He’s cemented his legacy with the “only senator in history” label. I hope he enjoys it.
I do agree with Trump’s assessment though, where he says if Mitt had put as much energy into his presidential run as he does into hating Trump, he could’ve beaten Obama. Then we’d most likely never had a President Trump. Oh well, it’s entertaining and I approve of 90% of what’s happened in the Trump presidency. And it looks like the dems have shot themselves in the foot so much that there will be 4 more years. Which is a very good thing. None of the democrat front runners is acceptable.

AvilaSurfer said:

Well, Romney is a joke here in Utah.

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Looking at his approval rating among UT voters, in this case "a joke" means slightly more popular than Donald is nationally. I'll leave others to figure out if that is accurate or not.

KCfromNC said:

Yeah, who'd want to go back to an economy with only 2% GDP growth. Oh wait - U.S. Economic Growth Slowed In 2019 To 2.3%

In other words, most of this "the economy was so terrible under Obama" nonsense is simply that - revisionist nonsense. The economy under Donald's first term is basically indistinguishable from that under Obama's second.

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With one key difference -- in the Obama years, the economy was still going up. Now under Donald, we may be seeing the beginning of the decline.

TLK Valentine said:

With one key difference -- in the Obama years, the economy was still going up. Now under Donald, we may be seeing the beginning of the decline.

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You know what would fix that? More tax cuts for billionaires, along with scrapping social security the ACA!

TLK Valentine said:

And Donald makes history again -- being the first impeached president in history to have a Senator from his own party vote to convict him.

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Five Democrats - Virgil Goode, Ralph Hall, Paul McHale, Charles Stenholm and Gene Taylor voted in favor of three of the four articles of impeachment of Bill Clinton but only Taylor voted for the abuse of power charge...

Granted, that was House and no one voted to convict in the Senate, but it was far less partisan than this latest attempt on Trump and I thought Clinton's impeachment was ridiculously partisan even with Clinton actually lying under oath (proven so)..

So why should we just sit and go yea, because of bunch of idiots presumed stuff, and we are convicting not a crime but a motivation, and we have no proof of this outside of other persons hatred for Trump, and it's to oust Trump from office who we've been trying to oust since before he was even sworn in... so sure, tie up the Senate so they cant work for the next year and vote on a partisan basis to convict!

Hahaha how idiotic is this?

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

That's because Mitt Romney has morals and integrity ,because of his Mormon faith. One thing I can say about Mormons . They try hard to live Godly lives. Sadly, most Republicans in office don't have those standards. And it seems to be getting worse.This isn't a glimmer of home.

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And look who Trump attacks most voraciously?
- John McCain, who on the same Senate floor, took a stand on principle, voting against Trump's efforts to kill Obamacare. Trump attacked him on his death bed and after the grave.
- Jeff Flake, who called on his Senate colleagues numerous times to stand up to the President

In each of these cases, the Senators stood up for their principles over party. They put American first, not themselves.

Hazelelponi said:

Granted, that was House and no one voted to convict in the Senate,

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Then my point stands.

but it was far less partisan than this latest attempt on Trump and I thought Clinton's impeachment was ridiculously partisan even with Clinton actually lying under oath (proven so)..

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Agreed... the vote in the Senate to convict Donald was a bipartisan effort, albeit an unsuccessful one.

Whereas the vote to acquit Clinton was also bipartisan, with five Republicans joining the Democrats to acquit.

So why should we just sit and go yea, because of bunch of idiots

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Are they idiots because you disagree with them, because you don't like them, or are you just showing support for their opponents?