The fatal flaw of Universalism

FineLinen · Feb 5, 2020

Albion said:
According to the Bible, he saves all who have Faith in Christ as their Lord and Savior. It's pretty clear that not everyone is in that group.

Dear Albion: That is a fact! Welcome to our word for today, malista.

"God is the Saviour of ALL mankind, malista those who believe/trust in Him."

Please note:

Malista is NOT monos or monon. NOT!

Lazarus Short · Feb 5, 2020

Albion said:
There is one Bible, but there are different translations. So okay, tell us what you are referring to as concerns Bible versions that do not make any reference to hell or, more importantly, to an eternity of estrangement awaiting some of us. That is the issue, not hell per se.

A FEW BIBLE VERSIONS WITHOUT HELL

Wesley's New Testament (1755)

Scarlett's N.T. (1798)

The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)

Young's Literal Translation (1891)

Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)

Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)

Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)

Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)

The New Testament, James Moffat, (1917)

Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)

Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)

The New Testament, Charles B. Williams, 1937

The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)

Hanson's New Covenant (1884)

Western N.T. (1926)

NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)

Concordant Literal NT (1983)

The N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)

Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)

New American Bible (1970)

Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)

Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)

The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)

Christian Bible (1991)

World English Bible (in progress)

Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha [NT Only]

Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)

Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)**

Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**

A Critical Paraphrase of the N.T. by Vincent T. Roth (1960)

New Testament, Recovery Version, Living Stream Ministry, 1991

New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE) Roman Catholic

Holy Bible In Its Original Order, Fred R. Coulter, 2007

Etymological N.T. (An Ultra Literal Translation, 2011, Michael Wine

Aramaic Peshitta New Testament, 2006, Janet M. Magiera

MirrorWord N.T. (Francois du Toit) still in translation

Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, Electronic Ver. (Tentmaker Ministries)

Besides the list, I found that the word "hell" comes not from Latin, Greek or Hebrew, but from the languages of then-pagan north Europe. Originally, it meant much as the Hebrew "sheol" or the Greek "hades," but in time it got a whole lot of theo-illogical baggage loaded onto it. I also found the Norse goddess "Hel" in my studies, who was supposed to rule over her realm of "Helheim" or House of Hel, where the Norse though you went to if you did not rate going to Valhalla. Clearly, that is pagan, but we find "hel" twice in the 1611 KJV...and "hell" is Christian? I find it to be quite a stretch.

Albion · Feb 5, 2020

Lazarus Short said:
Besides the list, I found that the word "hell" comes not from Latin, Greek or Hebrew, but from the languages of then-pagan north Europe. Originally, it meant much as the Hebrew "sheol" or the Greek "hades," but in time it got a whole lot of theo-illogical baggage loaded onto it. I also found the Norse goddess "Hel" in my studies, who was supposed to rule over her realm of "Helheim" or House of Hel, where the Norse though you went to if you did not rate going to Valhalla. Clearly, that is pagan, but we find "hel" twice in the 1611 KJV...and "hell" is Christian? I find it to be quite a stretch.

As I indicated in my previous post, the word hell is not the issue.

FineLinen · Feb 5, 2020

Albion said:
I don't think that conclusion is acceptable. It may look that way to us mortals who gauge winning and losing in a certain way, and Universalists often make the argument you are referring to. Remember, though, that God is almighty and can save whomever he wants. He COULD save everyone if he were to choose that.

It is not as though he is in a battle with an adversary, Satan, who is his equal. Because Satan is not the equal of God, the "struggle" for men's souls that is so often talked about by people is not actually a fair fight. God is ALLOWING Satan to remain in the field.

The Master of the Glory does all things well. He clears the air of the human condition, the disordered mess of struggling humanity to set is right once & for all.

The band-aid of the Law has been swallowed by the Spirit of the living & breathing God.

Our Father Abba = magnificent overflow.

https://www.bible.com/bible/97/ROM.8.msg

Lazarus Short · Feb 5, 2020

Albion said:
As I indicated in my previous post, the word hell is not the issue.

The word? The concept? The veracity of a particular translation? I'm not sure what you are saying is the issue...

Der Alte · Feb 5, 2020

Lazarus Short said:
Do not confuse the end of the book with the end of the story. See First Corinthians 23-28.
John did not get it wrong, he was not shown everything, just wrote what he was allowed to write.

Rubbish! Nothing that one apostle wrote can contradict anything another apostle wrote. So don't even try to play that card. For example Revelation 21:4-8.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

One continuous narrative.
Vs. 4 “there shall be no more death.” After this there should not me any more death.
Vs. 5 “I make all things new.” After this there should be no more death.
Vs. 7 “He that overcomes shall inherit all things.’ This makes a distinction between those who overcome and those who do not overcome.
Although vs. 4 says no more death and vs. 5 "I make all things new" in vs. 8, eight groups of people are thrown into the lake of fire which is still the second death. And there is no mention of salvation after this.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it [the new Jerusalem] any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

If there is nothing remaining which defiles, works an abomination or makes a lie this verse is unnecessary.

Lazarus Short · Feb 5, 2020

Der Alter said:
Rubbish! Nothing that one apostle wrote can contradict anything another apostle wrote. So don't even try to play that card. For example Revelation 21:4-8.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
One continuous narrative.
Vs. 4 “there shall be no more death.” After this there should not me any more death.
Vs. 5 “I make all things new.” After this there should be no more death.
Vs. 7 “He that overcomes shall inherit all things.’ This makes a distinction between those who overcome and those who do not overcome.
Although vs. 4 says no more death and vs. 5 "I make all things new" in vs. 8, eight groups of people are thrown into the lake of fire which is still the second death. And there is no mention of salvation after this.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it [the new Jerusalem] any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
If there is nothing remaining which defiles, works an abomination or makes a lie this verse is unnecessary.

Why do you play the "Rubbush!" card whenever anyone else trumps you? The writer of First Corinthians did NOT contradict the writer of the Revelation.

Albion · Feb 5, 2020

Lazarus Short said:
The word? The concept? The veracity of a particular translation? I'm not sure what you are saying is the issue...

I'm saying that Universal Salvation is the issue, not the word hell itself. And if you found that some of these translations used wording that you found to have dismissed the concept of a place/state in the afterlife for those who are eternally estranged from God, go ahead and make your case.

Der Alte · Feb 5, 2020

Lazarus Short said:
Why do you play the "Rubbush!" card whenever anyone else trumps you? The writer of First Corinthians did NOT contradict the writer of the Revelation.

You have NOT trumped me and you never will. If Paul did not contradict John in Revelation then why do you think Paul had better revelations than John?

Lazarus Short · Feb 5, 2020

Albion said:
I'm saying that Universal Salvation is the issue, not the word hell itself. And if you found that some of these translations used wording that you found to have dismissed the concept of a place/state in the afterlife for those who are eternally estranged from God, go ahead and make your case.

OK, here's the short form. The long form takes a little over 240 pages, all reasoned from the KJV.

1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation of the Cosmos - therefore, Hell is uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5. John 1:3 explicitly states that God made all, and that no other person or agency made anything. The Bible contains many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together as a term…without “hell.”

2. In the first chapter of Genesis, it is stated six times that God saw that what He had made was good, excluding Hell as being possible, as the Creation could not have been wholly good had Hell been in existence. See Genesis 1:10,12,18,21,25,31.

3. The Creation is properly a hierarchy, not a dualistic Heaven versus Hell – with the Earth and humans as a contested prize, fought over by God and Satan. See Genesis 1:1, Job 1 & 2, John 1:3, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 5:13.

4. God made both good and evil, for the same Hand that planted the Tree of Life also planted the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore, Satan did not make or create evil. See Genesis 2:9, Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6.

5. The Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell, so Satan is NOT the Prince of Hell. See Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zechariah 3:1-2, Revelation 2:13, 12:9.

6. The prince of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is not Satan, as it specifically refers to him as a man. See Ezekiel 26 - 28.

7. The Law God gave to Moses warned of death, but did not specify punishment in Hell, or warn of it. Punishments were delivered in the real world, and the most severe was simple death. See Genesis 2:17, Exodus through Deuteronomy, Romans 6:23.

8. All the consequences of human disobedience to God are worked out in the real, here-and-now world – not in Hell. This includes death, destruction, perishing, God’s wrath and His cursings. See Deuteronomy 28:15-68, 30:19, Ezekiel 32:32, Romans 13:4.

9. All people die, but none of them go to Eternal Conscious Torment – only to the grave or pit. See every instance of personal death in the Bible, with “hell” (if present) properly replaced with “sheol” or “hades,” as so often noted in the center or marginal reference column.

10. For the Hebrews, “sheol,” hidden, covered and unknown, was the state, condition or place of the dead. It was where the body returned to the dust and the spirit returned to God (Who gave it). See Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

11. Eternal Conscious Torment depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, and that comes, not from the Bible, but from Greek philosophy, from Socrates and Plato.

12. Hell, by definition, opposes the Gospel (the Good News) because Hell can only be Bad News for those sent there – and thus, for most of living (and

) humanity.

13. Hell violates God’s Law, specifically the Law of the Jubilee, which sets all those in servitude free. Those who die are freed from sin, as prophesied by the Law of the Jubilee. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Isaiah 1:18, Romans 6:7,16.

14. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous, due to the presence of God’s Spirit of Life in each of us. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

15. Hell, like Babylon, is confusion. Hell is hot, but it’s also cold as…Hell. Hell is bright with fire, but it is dark. Hell is separation from God, but Mary K Baxter depicts Jesus touring Hell, chiding the damned. To go to Hell, you must be dead, but to be in ECT, you must be alive, but you’re dead, and on and on… Fictional descriptions of Hell, especially as seen in the works of Dante, Milton and Baxter, are clearly fictional and un-Biblical.

16. God’s plan for the wicked is to destroy their wickedness, not to destroy them or send them to Hell. See Psalm 1:6, 7:9, Isaiah 1:18, Jeremiah 3:12, Habakkuk 1:12, Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 10:26-27.

17. God speaks of ransoming/redeeming ALL from death and the grave – without exception. See Psalm 49:15, Ezekiel 16:55, Romans 6:23, Ephesians 1:10.

18. God is both willing AND able to save all. Given that He is omnipotent, we can ALL look forward with confidence to our eventual salvation. See Psalm 49:15, 86:13, 103:8-14, 136, Isaiah 1:18, 6:7, 25:7-8, 26:19, 33:24, 43:25, 44:22, 45:8, 55:8-9, 57:16, 64:6-9, Jeremiah 3:12. Lamentations 3:26-32, Ezekiel 11:19, 16:55, Hosea 13:14, Micah 4:5, 7:18-19, Ephesians 1:10, Philipians 3:21, Colossians 1:19-20, I Thessalonians 1:10, I Timothy 1:15, 2:4-6, 4:10, 6:13, II Peter 3:9.

19. God compares Himself to a cleansing or refining agent – usually as fire, but sometimes as soap. Therefore, all instances of supernatural fire should be interpreted as being for refining and/or purification, not damnation. Fire in the Bible is never Hellfire, but natural fire or God’s Fire. See Malachi 3:2-3, Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:15.

20. If God’s Fire is for baptism and refining, then that which is burned must be our carnal, sinful nature. It is symbolized by unfruitful trees, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble – by anything unable to endure the Fire. See Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:11-15.

21. “Hell” is used in the King James Version (and others) to replace four other words: “Sheol,” “Hades,” “Gehenna” and “Tartarus.” None of these four refer to a place of damnation or Eternal Conscious Torment. See any decent dictionary, especially the Oxford English Dictionary.

22. When we dig out mistranslations and peel away misinterpretations, we find that Hell is an imposition, an insertion into the text. With Hell so deconstructed, the Bible and God are both silent on Hell. See Numbers 23:19, John 14:2.

23. Christians should not follow the Hell of the ancient, pagan religions, such as the “Hel” we find in Norse mythology, but follow the truth of God’s Word, which does not contain either the concept of Hell or even the word “hell,” except in imperfect translations.

FineLinen · Feb 5, 2020

Albion said:
I'm saying that Universal Salvation is the issue, not the word hell itself. And if you found that some of these translations used wording that you found to have dismissed the concept of a place/state in the afterlife for those who are eternally estranged from God, go ahead and make your case.

Dear Albion: There is simply no such realm as aidios estrangement. None!

The facts are these:

1. Ta pante declares the all begin & end in the A.& O.

2. All four hells are consummated in the Lake of Theos.

3. Every tongue confesses, every knee bows in worship IN/EN His Name.

4. The worship is by all beings, in all dimensions of the heavens, earth & underworld.

5. Pas the radical all indicates in no uncertain terms the scope of Father's triumph.

Death & destruction are not eternal.

"Jesus knew that John 3:16 was not the end of the story…that’s why He continued to John 3:17 and talked about the salvation of all mankind.

Jesus makes no attempt to use verse 16 to negate or qualify verse 17. He simply makes both statements side by side as if both are completely true. The reason He does this is that both are completely true.

We see this over and over in Scripture, especially in the writings of Paul – a statement about people who have faith now (maybe a warning or exhortation or encouragement about the benefits of taking part in the kingdom of God a.k.a. the next two ages of life on earth right next to a statement about how Christ accomplished the justification of all men. See Romans 3:23-24 and 5:18 and their contexts for example. This is no big deal; none of these statements negate, qualify (change), or contradict each other, because both concepts are 100% true. Some will be saved from death early and take part in the kingdom of God, and everyone else will be saved from death later.

To attempt to use some statements (about those who get saved early) to negate the others statements (about the eventual salvation of all) is to butcher the common sense rules of language and communication. We would never do this to each other in everyday communication; the only reason people try to do it to Jesus and Paul is because they cannot bring themselves to believe the plain statements about the eventual salvation of all mankind.

If I said to my kids, “Those of you who help me clean the yard today will get to go to a movie with me tomorrow, and next week I will take the rest of you to a movie,” I have made it very clear that all the kids will eventually go to the movies. My two statements do not contradict each other or negate each other in any way. This is the exact same thing Jesus does in John 3:16 and 17 – He makes two equally true statements. Yet “hell mindset” Christians try to make one statement negate the other in order to fit their preconceived inherited ideas." -Kenneth Larsen-

What About how the Bible says that those who do not believe will perish or be destroyed?

What Does it Mean to “Perish?”

Lazarus Short · Feb 5, 2020

Der Alter said:
You have NOT trumped me and you never will. If Paul did not contradict John in Revelation then why do you think Paul had better revelations than John?

I am NOT saying he did. I am just saying he covered a more remote time period.

Der Alte · Feb 5, 2020

Lazarus Short said:
OK, here's the short form. The long form takes a little over 240 pages, all reasoned from the KJV.
1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation of the Cosmos - therefore, Hell is uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5. John 1:3 explicitly states that God made all, and that no other person or agency made anything. The Bible contains many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together as a term…without “hell.”
2. In the first chapter of Genesis, it is stated six times that God saw that what He had made was good, excluding Hell as being possible, as the Creation could not have been wholly good had Hell been in existence. See Genesis 1:10,12,18,21,25,31.
3. The Creation is properly a hierarchy, not a dualistic Heaven versus Hell – with the Earth and humans as a contested prize, fought over by God and Satan. See Genesis 1:1, Job 1 & 2, John 1:3, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 5:13.
4. God made both good and evil, for the same Hand that planted the Tree of Life also planted the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore, Satan did not make or create evil. See Genesis 2:9, Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6.
5. The Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell, so Satan is NOT the Prince of Hell. See Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zechariah 3:1-2, Revelation 2:13, 12:9.
6. The prince of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is not Satan, as it specifically refers to him as a man. See Ezekiel 26 - 28.
7. The Law God gave to Moses warned of death, but did not specify punishment in Hell, or warn of it. Punishments were delivered in the real world, and the most severe was simple death. See Genesis 2:17, Exodus through Deuteronomy, Romans 6:23.
8. All the consequences of human disobedience to God are worked out in the real, here-and-now world – not in Hell. This includes death, destruction, perishing, God’s wrath and His cursings. See Deuteronomy 28:15-68, 30:19, Ezekiel 32:32, Romans 13:4.
9. All people die, but none of them go to Eternal Conscious Torment – only to the grave or pit. See every instance of personal death in the Bible, with “hell” (if present) properly replaced with “sheol” or “hades,” as so often noted in the center or marginal reference column.
10. For the Hebrews, “sheol,” hidden, covered and unknown, was the state, condition or place of the dead. It was where the body returned to the dust and the spirit returned to God (Who gave it). See Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.
11. Eternal Conscious Torment depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, and that comes, not from the Bible, but from Greek philosophy, from Socrates and Plato.
12. Hell, by definition, opposes the Gospel (the Good News) because Hell can only be Bad News for those sent there – and thus, for most of living (and) humanity.
13. Hell violates God’s Law, specifically the Law of the Jubilee, which sets all those in servitude free. Those who die are freed from sin, as prophesied by the Law of the Jubilee. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Isaiah 1:18, Romans 6:7,16.
14. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous, due to the presence of God’s Spirit of Life in each of us. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.
15. Hell, like Babylon, is confusion. Hell is hot, but it’s also cold as…Hell. Hell is bright with fire, but it is dark. Hell is separation from God, but Mary K Baxter depicts Jesus touring Hell, chiding the damned. To go to Hell, you must be dead, but to be in ECT, you must be alive, but you’re dead, and on and on… Fictional descriptions of Hell, especially as seen in the works of Dante, Milton and Baxter, are clearly fictional and un-Biblical.
16. God’s plan for the wicked is to destroy their wickedness, not to destroy them or send them to Hell. See Psalm 1:6, 7:9, Isaiah 1:18, Jeremiah 3:12, Habakkuk 1:12, Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 10:26-27.
17. God speaks of ransoming/redeeming ALL from death and the grave – without exception. See Psalm 49:15, Ezekiel 16:55, Romans 6:23, Ephesians 1:10.
18. God is both willing AND able to save all. Given that He is omnipotent, we can ALL look forward with confidence to our eventual salvation. See Psalm 49:15, 86:13, 103:8-14, 136, Isaiah 1:18, 6:7, 25:7-8, 26:19, 33:24, 43:25, 44:22, 45:8, 55:8-9, 57:16, 64:6-9, Jeremiah 3:12. Lamentations 3:26-32, Ezekiel 11:19, 16:55, Hosea 13:14, Micah 4:5, 7:18-19, Ephesians 1:10, Philipians 3:21, Colossians 1:19-20, I Thessalonians 1:10, I Timothy 1:15, 2:4-6, 4:10, 6:13, II Peter 3:9.
19. God compares Himself to a cleansing or refining agent – usually as fire, but sometimes as soap. Therefore, all instances of supernatural fire should be interpreted as being for refining and/or purification, not damnation. Fire in the Bible is never Hellfire, but natural fire or God’s Fire. See Malachi 3:2-3, Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:15.
20. If God’s Fire is for baptism and refining, then that which is burned must be our carnal, sinful nature. It is symbolized by unfruitful trees, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble – by anything unable to endure the Fire. See Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:11-15.
21. “Hell” is used in the King James Version (and others) to replace four other words: “Sheol,” “Hades,” “Gehenna” and “Tartarus.” None of these four refer to a place of damnation or Eternal Conscious Torment. See any decent dictionary, especially the Oxford English Dictionary.
22. When we dig out mistranslations and peel away misinterpretations, we find that Hell is an imposition, an insertion into the text. With Hell so deconstructed, the Bible and God are both silent on Hell. See Numbers 23:19, John 14:2.
23. Christians should not follow the Hell of the ancient, pagan religions, such as the “Hel” we find in Norse mythology, but follow the truth of God’s Word, which does not contain either the concept of Hell or even the word “hell,” except in imperfect translations.

Wrong! Deliberately ignores evidence to the contrary. In Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of fiery eternal punishment and the called it both sheol and Ge hinnom, written in the 225 BC and the NT as hades and Gehenna.

Der Alte · Feb 5, 2020

Lazarus Short said:
I am NOT saying he did. I am just saying he covered a more remote time period.

No, zero, none evidence.

Lazarus Short · Feb 5, 2020

Der Alter said:
No, zero, none evidence.

Evidence: "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." First Corinthians 15:24, KJV.

Der Alte · Feb 5, 2020

Lazarus Short said:
A FEW BIBLE VERSIONS WITHOUT HELL
Wesley's New Testament (1755)
Scarlett's N.T. (1798)
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)
The New Testament, James Moffat, (1917)
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)
The New Testament, Charles B. Williams, 1937
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)
Western N.T. (1926)
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)
Concordant Literal NT (1983)
The N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)
New American Bible (1970)
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)
Christian Bible (1991)
World English Bible (in progress)
Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha [NT Only]
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)**
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**
A Critical Paraphrase of the N.T. by Vincent T. Roth (1960)
New Testament, Recovery Version, Living Stream Ministry, 1991
New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE) Roman Catholic
Holy Bible In Its Original Order, Fred R. Coulter, 2007
Etymological N.T. (An Ultra Literal Translation, 2011, Michael Wine
Aramaic Peshitta New Testament, 2006, Janet M. Magiera
MirrorWord N.T. (Francois du Toit) still in translation
Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, Electronic Ver. (Tentmaker Ministries)

All irrelevant. Mostly "translations" by one person, which of course, reflects the biases of the person making the "translation."
What would be meaningful is scholarship citing historical evidence why a particular translation is chosen over others.

Besides the list, I found that the word "hell" comes not from Latin, Greek or Hebrew, but from the languages of then-pagan north Europe. Originally, it meant much as the Hebrew "sheol" or the Greek "hades," but in time it got a whole lot of theo-illogical baggage loaded onto it. I also found the Norse goddess "Hel" in my studies, who was supposed to rule over her realm of "Helheim" or House of Hel, where the Norse though you went to if you did not rate going to Valhalla. Clearly, that is pagan, but we find "hel" twice in the 1611 KJV...and "hell" is Christian? I find it to be quite a stretch.

That another country many years ago had a word that sounds something like an English word is irrelevant. That is a lexical fallacy the "root fallacy." When we say truck, we think about a large boxy vehicle for transporting large, heavy loads but "truck" originally meant vegetables.
The word "hell" means "bright" in German. The German word for the place of fiery punishment is hōlle.

Der Alte · Feb 5, 2020

Lazarus Short said:
Evidence: "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." First Corinthians 15:24, KJV.

This does not show that John's view of the end times was wrong. Shall I repeat the vss. from Rev 21 and 22 which you have never addressed?

ewq1938 · Feb 5, 2020

Saint Steven said:
That seems so wasteful. Shouldn't they at least be recycled? More Eco-friendly.

Go green with Restorationism.

The bible does not recycle the unrighteous. They are destroyed as Christ taught.

Lazarus Short · Feb 5, 2020

Der Alter said:
This does not show that John's view of the end times was wrong. Shall I repeat the vss. from Rev 21 and 22 which you have never addressed?

I did not need to address those verses, as they had to do with an earlier time period - as I said.

Der Alte · Feb 5, 2020

Lazarus Short said:
I did not need to address those verses, as they had to do with an earlier time period - as I said.

Prove it!

The fatal flaw of Universalism

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