Does Spirit baptism still happen today by the laying on of hands?

Does Spirit baptism still happen today by the laying on of hands?


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Francis Drake

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The prayer of faith heals. But if you had one of the gifts, you would do no differently than the miracles the Apostles performed. Healing paraplegics, raising the dead, etc., etc.

Its so amazing how much you know about the correct operation of the gifts, given that you never cease to deny them and have thus never witnessed them.
It's like a blind man trying to describe the sunset, it doesn't inspire confidence.
 
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So the church is perfect, the whole world has been evangelised, Jesus has returned and we are living in the millennial kingdom. That's why they call the current generation millennials! I don't think.

Jesus says be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.
If Jesus told us to do this and it was impossible, it would have made Jesus out to be a liar.
But seeing Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, He cannot lie.
We can be perfect as the Father is perfect, but He was not talking about Sinless Perfection in this instance, but He was referring to certain characteristics of the Father that make Him out to be perfect (if you were to look at the context in Matthew 5). Anyways, Jesus said to others to "sin no more" (John 5:14) (John 8:11). Paul and the other apostles agreed with Jesus (See: Galatians 5:24, 2 Corinthians 7:1, and 1 Peter 4:1-2).

You said:
It took me three years of doubting, researching and resisting before I was able to accept that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a current experience. Once I did, my life changed. A new realm opened up.

Actually, your conclusion is simply not true. All you have to do is read and believe the words of Peter in your Bible to understand what the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" actually is.

As Peter was telling Cornelius and his family about Jesus and salvation in Him, Peter states the following:

"And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost." (Acts of the Apostles 11:15-16).

So Peter is relating the receiving of the Spirit involving Cornelius and his family with the "baptism of the Holy Spirit." This was there first time receiving the Lord and His salvation, and the Spirit came as a part of that package deal (involving their salvation).

You said:
It can be dangerous, as there is a lot of counterfeit to contend with. God can and will steer us through the minefield. I am well aware that the Church in Corinth reads like a modern Pentecostal church, complete with moral and doctrinal issues. That does not invalidate the gift.

When Paul was writing to the Corinthian church in his 1st letter to them, they were not spiritually right with the Lord and they needed to seek forgiveness of their sins with the Lord in order to be restored back to God and His salvation. In Paul's 2nd letter to the Corinthians, we discover that by this time, they had repented or sought forgiveness with the Lord (2 Corinthians 7:10) (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).

You said:
I do not understand why people think that apostles have to have seen the Lord Jesus. Paul did not spend 3 years with the Lord as the others did. Yet he was a true apostle. Yes, there are founding apostles. "Apostle" simply means one who is sent. The Latin Bible translates "apostle" into the word that we get missionary from. There are still missionaries because there are still peoples to evangelise and Churches to found.

First, Paul learned of the revelation of the gospel by the revelation of Jesus Christ, and he did not learn it by any man.

“For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:” (Galatians 1:12-13).​

Paul spent three years in Arabia learning from the Lord.

“To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.” (Galatians 1:16-18).​

Second, Paul classifies himself as an apostle based on the fact that He had seen the risen Lord.

"Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?" (1 Corinthians 9:1).​

Three, while there are the core 12 apostles (that are unique), if we were to count beyond the original twelve, it is possible that there were 25 apostles. Check out this article here:

How Many Apostles in the NT -- 12 or 25?

Four, I am already aware that "apostle" means "one who is sent." But the apostles are not just anyone.
The saints are laid upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles (with Christ being the chief cornerstone).

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" (Ephesians 2:19-20).

You said:
For sure play it safe. I did. I'm glad. I did not fall into the trap of being pushed over, emotionally coerced into speaking in tongues and I did not receive the demon of spiritual pride that many Pentecostals end up with. I sure had pride but it was of a different variety. My motivation was a knowing that I lacked spiritual power. I received the Holy Spirit on my own, while staying at a friend's house, Christmas Eve 1974. No music, no emotion, no one standing over me telling me not to talk in English - I'd had all that and I baulked at it.

I believe the Spirit is given to those who obey Him (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).
Experiences are not always the gauge by which we should go by (Although I am not discounting you did not have a genuine experience with God). Anything is possible.

You said:
Watchman Nee says that the BOHS is simply a part of the salvation that God provided through Christ. All we have to do is pick it up.

Not sure about the picking up phrase, but we are given the Spirit as a part of salvation through Christ. As for Watchman Nee: I would caution in reading his writings.

Check out this article here to learn more:

Last Days Watchman: Why I Can No Longer Endorse Any Of Watchman Nee's Books
 
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HTacianas

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We agree on these established facts in Scripture, but we do not agree with your belief that says that Philip was found unworthy to impart the Spirit to them because that was not his call or office to do so. It could be, but there is no established fact that this is so.



These are not quotes from the Holy Bible and thus they are not authoritative so as to build doctrine.

I have to ask you now, are your opinions sufficient to establish doctrine?
 
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HTacianas

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Your quote here of my previous post is not a proper reply or response to what I actually stated. My point is this:

I am saying:

""Baptism of the Holy Spirit" label = Receiving the Holy Spirit for the first time (alone)."​

Others think:

""Baptism of the Holy Spirit" label = Being immersed into the Spirit by the laying on of hands to have miraculous spiritual gifts (AFTER one has already received the Spirit in their salvation). I believe gifts were received by the Spirit by the laying on of hands was done by the early church. For me: It is an unknown that this happens today. But the label is wrong, though. This is not the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit."​

Do you agree or disagree?

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is receiving the Holy Spirit for the first time. It is performed by the laying on of hands by a person with the power to perform it.
 
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Saint Steven

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Does somebody have other verses to support Spirit baptism by the laying on of hands after one is receives the Spirit when they first get saved?
Interesting topic. Thanks.

The topic title asks: Does Spirit baptism still happen today by the laying on of hands?

So, perhaps you should be asking for personal testimonies of what is happening today instead of "other verses to support Spirit baptism by the laying on of hands".

The respondents will probably split into two camps:
1) Cessationists
2) Continuationists

This is typically a doctrinal stance issue. And neither side will budge.
 
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Saint Steven

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So the church is perfect, the whole world has been evangelised, Jesus has returned and we are living in the millennial kingdom. That's why they call the current generation millennials! I don't think.
That's pretty funny. Thanks.
 
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Saint Steven

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I should weigh in on this.

There is a difference between the indwelling Spirit and the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
The indwelling Spirit comes when we receive Christ. And as @Hillsage says, we receive the Spirit of Christ, or becomes stones in the Temple. (whatever)

But Holy Spirit Baptism is a subsequent experience to the salvation of our spirit.
The description Jesus uses proves that it is different. He said, "you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you..." (Acts 1:8) Did you receive power when you received Christ? I mean, miracle-working power? Typically the initial sign of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is tongues. But I believe that any manifestation of the Holy Spirit listed in 1Cor.12 would be sufficient. Or even spontaneous praise. (Acts 10:44-46; Acts 19:6) And the Baptism comes as soon as we ask for it. The sign may come later. It did for me.

Many are against tongues, but it is the gateway to all the manifestations (gifts) of the Holy Spirit. The churches that encourage tongues see miracles, the churches that suppress tongues do not see miracles. See the difference?

Say, "Ah" if your church is a "tongues suppressor" - lol

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Acts 19:6
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

Acts 10:46
For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
 
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Saint Steven

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Even Jesus couldn't do any miracles in his hometown due to the unbelief of the people.
Do we expect that things will be any different today?

Mark 6:4-6
Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith.
 
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DamianWarS

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Not all believers are qualified for every office. Even Philip having the Holy Spirit could not bestow the Holy Spirit on the Samaritans even though he performed miracles and baptized them. He sent for Peter and John to do it.
but he could the Ethiopian (implicitly)
 
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I have to ask you now, are your opinions sufficient to establish doctrine?

So what is your opinion when a person tells you that a horse jumps over the fence? There is only one way to read it. A horse jumps over the fence. One either seeks the most plainest meaning of what a text says based on the context, or one doesn't do that based on outside beliefs they are trying to cram into the text. Say Rick really likes monkeys. He may attempt to add a monkey into the sentence that says, "A horse jumps over the fence" by saying that a monkey was riding the horse while it jumped over the fence.
 
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HTacianas

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So what is your opinion when a person tells you that a horse jumps over the fence? There is only one way to read it. A horse jumps over the fence. One either seeks the most plainest meaning of what a text says based on the context, or one doesn't do that based on outside beliefs they are trying to cram into the text. Say Rick really likes monkeys. He may attempt to add a monkey into the sentence that says, "A horse jumps over the fence" by saying that a monkey was riding the horse while it jumped over the fence.

I am merely reading the text.
 
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Interesting topic. Thanks.

The topic title asks: Does Spirit baptism still happen today by the laying on of hands?

So, perhaps you should be asking for personal testimonies of what is happening today instead of "other verses to support Spirit baptism by the laying on of hands".

The respondents will probably split into two camps:
1) Cessationists
2) Continuationists

This is typically a doctrinal stance issue. And neither side will budge.

I am kind of in the middle between the two (with leanings more towards Cessationism, but I am not stating it as 100% fact because I don't want to condemn myself just in case I am wrong). While I believe that a Christian most definitely can lay hands on another believer as a way for the Spirit to empower a believer with non-miraculous gifts like teaching, evangelism, and or helping the poor, and or discernment, on the other hand, I don't think this should be labeled as the "baptism into the Holy Spirit."

I see the label or the name of the title "baptism of the Holy Spirit" defined for us by Peter in Acts 11 when he recalls the words of the Lord on being baptized into the Spirit when Cornelius and his family received the Spirit for the first time.

Some believe that the label of "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is a second event after one is already filled by the Spirit. They see this as simply the receiving of the gifts of the Spirit and empowerment (When that is not how Peter defines it).
 
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I am merely reading the text.

I am not sure how that is possible if one also includes outside traditions. For me: That adds a certain bias when reading the text of the Bible. Remember the monkeys I talked about before? The monkeys are the traditions in my opinion. Folks really like traditions just like some folks really like monkeys.
 
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HTacianas

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I am not sure how that is possible if one also includes outside traditions. For me: That adds a certain bias when reading the text of the Bible. Remember the monkeys I talked about before? The monkeys are the traditions in my opinion. Folks really like traditions just like some folks really like monkeys.

If you can explain to me how I'm doing anything of the sort I'll be glad to listen.
 
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Baptism of the Holy Spirit is receiving the Holy Spirit for the first time. It is performed by the laying on of hands by a person with the power to perform it.

We agree that the baptism of the Spirit is the receiving of the Spirit for the first time.
Where we disagree is the normative method by which this happens. Yes, we see in Acts 19, where Paul lays hands on a certain group of Ephesians to receive the Spirit for the first time, but this was not the normative way of accepting the Spirit. Acts 11 sets the standard of which we would see for the normative way of people receiving the Holy Spirit. Granted, I think the Spirit operates in a more subtle way today in how that appears in people's lives involving the acceptance of the gift of the Holy Spirit, but the point here is that Peter recalls the words of Jesus in Acts 11 about the Lord's words on the baptism of the Spirit when Cornelius and his house received the Spirit for the first time. Cornelius and his family did not have hands laid upon them. Peter was speaking and it just happened while he was speaking still.
 
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Hillsage

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We agree that the baptism of the Spirit is the receiving of the Spirit for the first time.
Where we disagree is the normative method by which this happens. Yes, we see in Acts 19, where Paul lays hands on a certain group of Ephesians to receive the Spirit for the first time, but this was not the normative way of accepting the Spirit. Acts 11 sets the standard of which we would see for the normative way of people receiving the Holy Spirit.

Not true. Acts 11 was the first time "the gift" of supernatural holy spirit power was imparted upon Gentiles FROM the Holy Spirit, who was the giver of "the gift". Acts 11 was no more "normative or standard" than the sovereign way it happened for the first time to the JEWS/apostles on Pentecost.

Granted, I think the Spirit operates in a more subtle way today in how that appears in people's lives involving the acceptance of the gift of the Holy Spirit, but the point here is that Peter recalls the words of Jesus in Acts 11 about the Lord's words on the baptism of the Spirit when Cornelius and his house received the Spirit for the first time. Cornelius and his family did not have hands laid upon them. Peter was speaking and it just happened while he was speaking still.
What Peter said was 'the same as the Jews first experience' was the fact that they also spoke in tongues manifesting supernatural power of the/from the Holy Spirit.
The Greek word tou gets translated as "gift of the/tou Spirit" but that no more means you got the 'person of the Holy Spirit' than "the promise of the/tou Father" means you got the Father. The promise of the Father wasn't the person of 'the Holy Spirit' the promise was 'holy spirit power FROM the Holy Spirit. IOW supernatural tongues is what they did "see and hear" in Acts 2:33

LUK 24:49 And behold, I send the promise of my (tou FROM my) Father upon you; but stay in the city, until you are clothed with power from on high."

IOW clothed with the promised gift of power upon you, coming from the Holy Spirit who was from on high.

ACT 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;
The Holy Spirit is no more IN you, than he was IN Jesus. All scriptures say the Spirit of God
was UPON Jesus, never IN Him.

The Samaritans in Act's 8 were saved and water baptized by Stephen. Then he was translated, assuming before he had a chance to minister the baptism FROM the Holy Spirit. So your misunderstanding of Act 2:38 is glaring for me. Also, there's no apostolic litmus for imparting any of the baptisms required to go on to perfection.

HEB 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands,

I'm not an apostle and I laid hands praying for impartation on two, a couple of months ago. Both received a flowing prayer language.
 
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DamianWarS

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Does Spirit baptism still happen today by the laying on of hands?

Acts of the Apostles 8:15-17.

Acts of the Apostles 19:1-5.

I see these passages as referring to unique events in church history.
Acts of the Apostles 8:15-17 was a situation where Simon needed to be weeded out in receiving the Spirit until his heart was officially right with God.
Acts of the Apostles 19:1-5 was a situation where the Ephesians were not even aware of the Holy Ghost, and thus they needed to receive the Spirit via by Spirit baptism by the laying on of hands.

Does somebody have other verses to support Spirit baptism by the laying on of hands after one is receives the Spirit when they first get saved?
not just by layinng on of hands
 
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Peter J Barban

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The dean of my Evangelical seminary testified that he got the Baptism of the Holy Spirit by prayer and the laying on of hands. He was in a group of ministers who prayed for each other, one by one. Some got it, some didn't.

I didn't that way, though I tried. I got it later on my own.
 
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GaveMeJoy

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Does Spirit baptism still happen today by the laying on of hands?

Acts of the Apostles 8:15-17.

Acts of the Apostles 19:1-5.

I see these passages as referring to unique events in church history.
Acts of the Apostles 8:15-17 was a situation where Simon needed to be weeded out in receiving the Spirit until his heart was officially right with God.
Acts of the Apostles 19:1-5 was a situation where the Ephesians were not even aware of the Holy Ghost, and thus they needed to receive the Spirit via by Spirit baptism by the laying on of hands.

Does somebody have other verses to support Spirit baptism by the laying on of hands after one is receives the Spirit when they first get saved?

there are some verses out of context that charismatics will provide for sure. I agree with you, I don’t like adding to Christ’s work on the cross.
 
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