Who will populate the earth in the 1000 year Reign

sovereigngrace

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Why is it that in other threads you seemed to be radically opposed to Preterist interpretations of Scriptures, when you are basically doing the same thing with Daniel 7 that Preterists apparently do with it?

Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

In your view none of this involves Revelation 13 and the final 42 months in this age, correct?


Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

This has to be the interpretation of something earlier mentioned in Daniel 7, obviously.

The only think I can think of would be the following.

Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

You then think the fulfillment of verses 9-12, the interpretation of verse 22, occurred thousands of years ago rather than is future still? What about verse 11, what I have underlined, how does one reasonably demonstrate that that has already been fulfilled in the past?

I agree with both at times and I disagree with both at times. Both are fixated with either the past or the future. The balance involves both.

Daniel 7:9-10 depicts the general judgment at the end. It sees Christ appear in all His glory sitting upon a throne in order to exercise the final judgment of mankind. In Revelation 20, John expressly declares, “I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it.” In Daniel 7 we learn, “the ancient of days did sit … his throne was like the fiery flame. Also, in both passages we learn that this is the exact point in time when the living and the dead stand before the throne and are judged. Revelation 20 continues, “I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened.” Daniel 7 similarly says, “and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.”
 
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sovereigngrace

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because Christ doesn't rule earth tangibly right now, the church is fractured and we have debates just like this one over doctrine and details and interpretations. 1000 year millennium with a physical return of Christ ruling the world, straightens that all out before eternity.
also, like I've said, it's been way longer than 1000 years, and as another said, 1000 years is specified multiple times, I don't think it's figurative. Just like I believe the 7 years of Daniel's 70th week. We're given the 7 years and its 3.5 year halfway point multiple times, in terms of times, months, and even days.
You start making all of that too intangible and internalized when you start making it all allegorical.

He still reigns at the right hand of majesty. He holds all power in heaven and on earth. He is bringing everything to its ultimate conclusion.
 
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sovereigngrace

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because Christ doesn't rule earth tangibly right now, the church is fractured and we have debates just like this one over doctrine and details and interpretations. 1000 year millennium with a physical return of Christ ruling the world, straightens that all out before eternity.
also, like I've said, it's been way longer than 1000 years, and as another said, 1000 years is specified multiple times, I don't think it's figurative. Just like I believe the 7 years of Daniel's 70th week. We're given the 7 years and its 3.5 year halfway point multiple times, in terms of times, months, and even days.
You start making all of that too intangible and internalized when you start making it all allegorical.

Unlike Premils, Amils use Scripture to interpret Scripture. Premil has zero corroboration for all its main tenets.

Genesis 3:15, Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 16:11, Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:2 depict Satan as bound, injured, defeated, incapacitated, immobilized, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped, judged and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. As a result of this, John 12:31-33 and Revelation 12:9-13 records Satan being eternally banished from heaven, along with his demonic angels.

Because Christ’s mission was fully accomplished, Revelation 5:5 affirms: “behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed” Jesus testifies in Revelation 3:21: “I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” Christ now possesses all power and authority (Matthew 28:18). Christ now holds supreme power over the kingdom of darkness. Jesus testified in Revelation 1:18: “I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys (or authority) of hell (Hades) and of death.” 1 Peter 3:22 shows that Christ, “who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God (now!!!); angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.” There is nothing that is not under His feet (1 Corinthians 15:27-28, Ephesians 1:17-23, Colossians 1:15-17 and Hebrews 1:1-3). He opens and no man shuts, He shuts and no man opens (Revelation 3:7).

Because Christ overcame, Satan and his minions are now restrained by spiritual chains in a spiritual prison (2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:3). While there is no direct Scripture that show the actual moment when the beast is cast into the abyss, Revelation 11:7-9 and Revelation 17:7-8 show him located there during the intra-Advent period.

Scripture shows the abyss being opened near the end whereupon Satan and his demons are released from their spiritual restraint (Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:7). This parallels with the beast also rising from the abyss (Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8). This corresponds with the restraint being taken off the mystery of iniquity in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 before Christ’s return.

Daniel 7:9-11, 2 Thessalonians 2:8 and Revelation 19:19-20 show the beast being obliterated at the second coming. Isaiah 26:19-27:1 and Revelation 20:10–14 show this to be the same time when Satan is finally destroyed.

This all proves that Revelation 20 runs from Christ’s first resurrection till the second coming.
 
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DavidPT

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I agree with both at times and I disagree with both at times. Both are fixated with either the past or the future. The balance involves both.

Daniel 7:9-10 depicts the general judgment at the end. It sees Christ appear in all His glory sitting upon a throne in order to exercise the final judgment of mankind. In Revelation 20, John expressly declares, “I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it.” In Daniel 7 we learn, “the ancient of days did sit … his throne was like the fiery flame. Also, in both passages we learn that this is the exact point in time when the living and the dead stand before the throne and are judged. Revelation 20 continues, “I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened.” Daniel 7 similarly says, “and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.”


Assuming verses 9-12 are the interpretation of verse 22, how can verse 22 be meaning something that has already been fulfilled in the past, while verses 9-12 are meaning events yet to be fulfilled?


Daniel 7:16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

The interpretation of what things? The things already revealed up unto this point. And if verse 22 is the interpretation of verses 9-12, how does it make sense that verse 22 is meaning events verses 9-12 are not even meaning?

I'm trying my best to understand your thought process here, in the event you might be correct, except I'm having difficulty understanding it since I can't help but seeing your interpretation contradicting the texts involved.
 
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Jamdoc

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He still reigns at the right hand of majesty. He holds all power in heaven and on earth. He is bringing everything to its ultimate conclusion.
and yet there are 1.3 billion muslims, and billions more under other false religions, and the face of Christianity is a bunch of word of faith/health and wealth doctrine televangelists, and the other face being the Catholic Church and I don't want to get into my disagreements with their doctrines here.
That's no rule with a rod of iron.
and ultimately. Revelation 20 teaches that when Satan is bound in the abyss he won't be able to deceive the nations anymore.
Is that what you see now? No deception by Satan?
 
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eleos1954

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New Jerusalem doesn't come down from Heaven until after the battle of Gog and Magog.

The New Jerusalem is on the earth and the Battle of Gog & Magog are from the 2nd resurrection and they attack the beloved city.

Revelation 20

5The rest of the dead (the lost) did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.

Then the second resurrection happens.

Revelation 20

7When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.9And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city (new Jerusalem). But fire came down from heaven and consumed them. 10And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown.
 
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Jamdoc

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The beloved city is Jerusalem, but just earthly Jerusalem. New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven in Revelation 21:2 That is post Armageddon, after the Millennium, after the battle of Gog and Magog, and after the Great White Throne of Judgement and the final defeat of Death where there will be no more death, ever again. New Jerusalem coming down from Heaven is the beginning of Eternity on the New Earth. No death, no sin, no war can follow that.
 
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Copperhead

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Where does any of these teach 2 resurrections separated by a thousand years?

The one that Isaiah specifically references happens BEFORE the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth.

It is going to be a real pretzel mess to try and shoehorn that resurrection in Isaiah, which comports with Paul discussion on the matter in his letters, with the one that Revelation says happens after the thousand years.... ARE FINISHED. Even if it was allegorical, there is a distinct difference between the resurrection before the "time of Jacob's trouble", as Isaiah, David, Jeremiah, and Zephaniah affirm, and the end of a thousand years, whatever that may mean to some. For the thousand years do not end before the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth, which the resurrection written of by Isaiah and says occurs before then.

So even if they are not separated by one thousand years, that I believe they are, they are separate resurrections. Just like the resurrection of the two witnesses in Revelation is a resurrection that occurs in between those two.

Only applying the Greek/Gnostic concepts of allegorical interpretation brought in by Origen (3rd century) of the Alexandrian center and further codified into practice by Augustine (4th/5th Century) also of the heavily Gnostic influenced Alexandrian center, is one able to turn the plain sense of scripture passages on their head and allegorize them into something other than their original intent.

If the future prophecies are not literal in nature, then what guarantee do we have that the past prophecies of the Messiah are true? It is because we know those unique, detailed, and accurate prophecies of the past that were fulfilled in minute detail, that we can be assured that the future ones we read of likewise will be fulfilled in minute detail as the are written.

Any other position is to make God out to be a liar.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The one that Isaiah specifically references happens BEFORE the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth.

It is going to be a real pretzel mess to try and shoehorn that resurrection in Isaiah, which comports with Paul discussion on the matter in his letters, with the one that Revelation says happens after the thousand years.... ARE FINISHED. Even if it was allegorical, there is a distinct difference between the resurrection before the "time of Jacob's trouble", as Isaiah, David, Jeremiah, and Zephaniah affirm, and the end of a thousand years, whatever that may mean to some. For the thousand years do not end before the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth, which the resurrection written of by Isaiah and says occurs before then.

So even if they are not separated by one thousand years, that I believe they are, they are separate resurrections. Just like the resurrection of the two witnesses in Revelation is a resurrection that occurs in between those two.

Only applying the Greek/Gnostic concepts of allegorical interpretation brought in by Origen (3rd century) of the Alexandrian center and further codified into practice by Augustine (4th/5th Century) also of the heavily Gnostic influenced Alexandrian center, is one able to turn the plain sense of scripture passages on their head and allegorize them into something other than their original intent.

If the future prophecies are not literal in nature, then what guarantee do we have that the past prophecies of the Messiah are true? It is because we know those unique, detailed, and accurate prophecies of the past that were fulfilled in minute detail, that we can be assured that the future ones we read of likewise will be fulfilled in minute detail as the are written.

Any other position is to make God out to be a liar.

You have obviously discovered what many of us have discovered, there is not one single bit of collaboration for the Premillennial view that the resurrections of the righteous and the wicked are separated by a thousand years.

You are also showing a great ignorance of history and what Origen, the Alexandrian school and Augustine believed. All strongly opposed Gnosticism. It is normally a sign of defeat in a debate when men make such erroneous unsubstantiated sweeping claims.
 
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sovereigngrace

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and yet there are 1.3 billion muslims, and billions more under other false religions, and the face of Christianity is a bunch of word of faith/health and wealth doctrine televangelists, and the other face being the Catholic Church and I don't want to get into my disagreements with their doctrines here.
That's no rule with a rod of iron.
and ultimately. Revelation 20 teaches that when Satan is bound in the abyss he won't be able to deceive the nations anymore.
Is that what you see now? No deception by Satan?

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 tells us: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

Here you have it: “all rule and all authority and power” are “put down” at “Christ's … Coming.” It is that simple, and that clear. Those who take a clear, objective and literal straightforward reading of this text will see that it spells the end of all rebellion. However, this is the opposite to the Premil millennium: which has more wicked and more enemies arising and culminates in the greatest uprising in human history – as the wicked, against the saints of God “as the sand of the sea.”

Paul then reminds us:

1 Corinthians 15:25-26: “For he must reign (present, active infinitive), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

Here he shows that Christ is reigning now. It is written in the present, active infinitive sense. How long does he reign? He confirms: “till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” Again, this couldn’t be clearer! Every last enemy will be subjugated and subdued at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The last enemy is identified as death!

There you have it! The second coming sees the final subjugation of all:

· rule
· authority
· power
· death

Paul then reinforces this thought:

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 “For ‘he hath put’ (aorist active indicative) (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to) all things under him. And when all things shall be (hupotasso) subdued (or subordinated or submitted to) unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (hupotasso or subordinated or submitted to), that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

Paul, again, repeats the great truth that God “hath put all things under his feet” as He reigns in majestic glory upon high. The reign described here is aorist active indicative, meaning it is ongoing. He also shows, whilst Christ is reigning over His enemies as Lord and God, they will NOT be made His footstool, subdued and put down until the second coming.

The whole focus here is the current reign of Christ upon the heavenly throne that will culminate in the final downfall of all his enemies when he appears. Then we'll his enemies finally be subdued, put down, and made his footstool.

Hebrews 1:2, 3, 2:9 says, “Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things … Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.”

There it is! He is the supreme power. He is the government. He carries all authority. Whilst new enemies are being born every day, while new wicked regimes continually arise, Christ determines what He allows and what He doesn't. There is nothing that is not under Him. The world is NOT out of control. God has a plan and that plan will be fulfilled, when God sees fit.

1 Peter 3:22 says, that Christ, who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God (now!!!); angels and authorities and powers being (currently!!!) made subject unto him.”

Without a doubt Christ is reigning over His enemies since the resurrection, waiting for their final predetermined put down. Those who question Christ’s current reign do great assault upon the truth of God’s Word and undermine the current sovereign kingly position that He now assuredly holds. They also circumvent clear New Testament writings that teach Christ is reigning now.
 
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sovereigngrace

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and yet there are 1.3 billion muslims, and billions more under other false religions, and the face of Christianity is a bunch of word of faith/health and wealth doctrine televangelists, and the other face being the Catholic Church and I don't want to get into my disagreements with their doctrines here.
That's no rule with a rod of iron.
and ultimately. Revelation 20 teaches that when Satan is bound in the abyss he won't be able to deceive the nations anymore.
Is that what you see now? No deception by Satan?

Revelation 12 places the defeat of Satan at the resurrection/ascension, thus refuting your argument: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Previous to Satan's eviction, God was Israel's God, not the Gentiles God. Satan ruled the nations. But through this casting out of Satan, after man's penalty had been paid in full, he no longer had anything to accuse the elect over. It was indeed finished! The powerful spread of the Gospel to the Gentiles lifting the deception that kept them bound. Satan was now bound. The boot was on the other foot. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles now are without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted. The means by which God lifts deception is the preaching of the Word of God. This has now been successfully ongoing throughout the nations for 2000 years.

Satan's defeat came after the resurrection. Here is when he got his eviction notice, and here is "when" salvation came to the "whole world" - not just one nation Israel. The deception enveloping the Gentiles was lifted - praise God. They are now without excuse, just like those in the OT that rejected salvation. Salvation has now come to the nations. But Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s life, death and resurrection safely secured that. As a result the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism.

Christ predicted shortly before He destroyed the power of Satan at the cross, in John 12:30-33: Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

This passage plainly shows the powerful result of Calvary and the deep impact it had upon Satan. It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Satan and his minions are barred from heaven. They have been banished after they were defeated 2,000 years ago.

Before being cast out of heaven through Christ’s victorious assault on his kingdom the devil had access to both heaven and earth. He had the ability to come before God to accuse the brethren of their sins. When he was cast down he no longer had access to heaven but only to earth.
 
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Dave L

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I don't know why some of you insist this is a good argument? Assuming the thousand years are after the 2nd coming, does it look like in Revelation 20:9---and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them---that any of these end up inheriting the kingdom?
Also consider the kingdom comes without observation, is within you. Only the born again can see it. Is not of this world, among other obstacles to having a physical kingdom.
 
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Dave L

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the Millennial Kingdom isn't the Kingdom of Heaven.
The kingdom of God is also the Kingdom of heaven. And there is no millennial kingdom because it contradicts Jesus' teaching about the spiritual nature of the kingdom.
 
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Dave L

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Well...…. if Jesus has flesh then he has a physical body, however glorified it may or may not be. If Jesus and all the resurrected saints also have transformed bodies of flesh and bone but not flesh and blood then the KoG, millennial or not, also has physicality.

This is the second place I find blatant contradiction with both logic and scripture in what I am reading from you, Dave.

Fix it for me. Either clarify it so the seeming conflicts (plural) reconcile or change it so the real conflicts no longer exist.
The kingdom you are confusing with the Pharisee's physical kingdom is the New Heavens and Earth. It is forever, not 1000 years of pain and suffering with a cherry on top.
 
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Dave L

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Oh, no, no, no! You don't get to say satan uses, "only glorified saints fitted with bodies like Jesus," and then say he doesn't have any power over those saints. That is self-contradictory. That is a logically fatal flaw to the entire eschatology. That is open and direct conflict with God's word.

Fix it.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom = only saints in glorified bodies would be there if the Millennium were true.
 
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Josheb

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The kingdom you are confusing with the Pharisee's physical kingdom is the New Heavens and Earth. It is forever, not 1000 years of pain and suffering with a cherry on top.
I will thank you not to tell me what I do and do not understand or confuse.

I do not think the millennium is a literal 1000 years and I do not think it is "1000 years of pain and suffering with a cherry on top," but neither does any of that have anything to do with what I am asking you. You asserted Paul's comment in 1 Cor. 15 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the KoG. I completely agree and have often asserted that very verse to show the nature of the kingdom myself. However, you also acknowledged and agreed Jesus is in the kingdom and Jesus has flesh. You and I also agree with scripture's blunt assertion the Davidic throne prophesies are already fulfilled and you and I agree Jesus is the king in the Kingdom of God right now.

So you, not just the Dispies in this op, have a very critical contradiction in your eschatology and it has nothing to do with the existence of another's confusion or lack thereof.

Paul's comment in 1 Corinthians 15:50 cannot conflict with Jesus' statement in Luke 24:39. I am asking you to reconcile this matter and you are not doing so.



No confusion about it.
 
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Josheb

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The new earth is glorified. Only the glorified are suited and qualified to inherit it. Mortality cannot possess it. The wicked cannot possess it. Premil has billions of both polluting the new earth.
Immaterial to the contradiction you earlier posted. You cannot say incorruptible Christians can be corrupted by satan and expect anyone to take that contradiction veraciously. I am asking you to correct that contradiction.
 
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Dave L

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I will thank you not to tell me what I do and do not understand or confuse.

I do not think the millennium is a literal 1000 years and I do not think it is "1000 years of pain and suffering with a cherry on top," but neither does any of that have anything to do with what I am asking you. You asserted Paul's comment in 1 Cor. 15 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the KoG. I completely agree and have often asserted that very verse to show the nature of the kingdom myself. However, you also acknowledged and agreed Jesus is in the kingdom and Jesus has flesh. You and I also agree with scripture's blunt assertion the Davidic throne prophesies are already fulfilled and you and I agree Jesus is the king in the Kingdom of God right now.

So you, not just the Dispies in this op, have a very critical contradiction in your eschatology and it has nothing to do with the existence of another's confusion or lack thereof.

Paul's comment in 1 Corinthians 15:50 cannot conflict with Jesus' statement in Luke 24:39. I am asking you to reconcile this matter and you are not doing so.



No confusion about it.
Jesus says the kingdom is spiritual.
 
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Josheb

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Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom = only saints in glorified bodies would be there if the Millennium were true.
Slight amendment: only saints in glorified bodies of flesh would be there if the Millennium were true.
 
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