Is Your Prayer Language Fraudulent?

It is also about serving others. too

tturt said:

Also, there's two other forums for followers of Jesus who believe in the manifestation of the spiritual gifts including tongues and others aren't suppose to post in those areas. On the forums page, 'the 'Spiritual Growth" forum then click. "'Spiritual Gifts." There's also a subforum "Sign Gifts" available.

I too get tired of cessationists then God reminded me I was one once! I didnt say anything against them. I just didnt realize til about 20 years ago that they were for today.

Click to expand...

I was converted to Christ in an AOG church in 1966, and received the baptism with the Spirit and the gift of tongues three weeks later. I love using tongues as part of my prayer, and I don't know what I would do without it. Even though I left the Pentecostal movement in 1978, and have been an elder in the Presbyterian church for the last 23 years, I have continued praying in tongues in my personal prayer times. In fact I pray in tongues everywhere when I want to.

But when I encountered these Cessationists writing against tongues and sowing seeds of doubt, I went through a real struggle in my mind concerning tongues. It seemed that I was being attacked by doubt and unbelief concerning the gift. I talked at length with the Lord about it, and He brought me right back to 1 Corinthians 14 and told me definitely that He devoted a whole chapter of the Bible to guide folk on how to use the gift correctly and that I should centre my faith on that chapter and trust Him that the chapter is His truth. He highlighted 1 Corinthians 14:2 and told me to use that as the anchor to my faith, and He assured me that when I prayed in tongues, He understood and appreciated my prayer in the Spirit.

He then reminded me of the two events in my own church where a friend spoke in tongues at a prayer meeting, and a Ghanaian visitor told him what he said in his own village dialect! And it was worship and praise to God. The other event was when I was praying in tongues in support of people being ministered to at the altar call, and a NZ Maori lady, a friend, leaned over and told me that God spoke encouraging things to her through me in the Maori language, and I have never learned it!

The Lord showed me that these events could never had happened if the gift of tongues had ceased at the end of the Apostolic age. Then in my reading of books, I came across a number of similar testimonies of the same thing happening to others in similar meetings.

As a result, I totally believe in 1 Corinthians 14, and I pray in tongues because the written Word of God says that I am doing the right thing and God totally approves of it.

The point I am making that even me, who has been praying in tongues for 53 years, can be attacked with a unbelief bomb because of these Cessationists who spout their doctrines of devils in order to upset the faith of good, godly believers.

Daniel Marsh said:

It is also about serving others. too

Click to expand...

You'd best be serving others by writing your views in the appropriate forums where you have the right to debate the issues with like-minded believers, than to attack the faith of Charismatics on their own protected forum.

Oscarr I understand what you are saying and agree. But even with the forum rules posted and the please read before posting, there are some who are determined to post their opposition - as you know. They reject those Scriptures. They dont rknow the difference in the tongues, etc How much plainer can it be - do not forbid speaking in tongues I Cor 14.

Plowing through their objections have made me even stronger in what I had studied and believe. But I am at the point where it would really be nice for some area just for learning and sharing There is distraction and aggravation in constantly defending those Scriptures.

But we all know if speaking in tongues just wasn't what it is, there wouldn't be all this opposition. They're offended.

tturt said:

Oscarr I understand what you are saying and agree. But even with the forum rules posted and the please read before posting, there are some who are determined to post their opposition - as you know. They reject those Scriptures. They dont rknow the difference in the tongues, etc How much plainer can it be - do not forbid speaking in tongues I Cor 14.

Plowing through their objections have made me even stronger in what I had studied and believe. But I am at the point where it would really be nice for some area just for learning and sharing instead of the distraction and aggravation of constantly defending those Scriptures.

But we all know if it just wasn't what it is, there wouldn't be all this opposition. They're offended.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more

read to here

tturt said:

Oscarr I understand what you are saying and agree. But even with the forum rules posted and the please read before posting, there are some who are determined to post their opposition - as you know. They reject those Scriptures. They dont rknow the difference in the tongues, etc How much plainer can it be - do not forbid speaking in tongues I Cor 14.

Plowing through their objections have made me even stronger in what I had studied and believe. But I am at the point where it would really be nice for some area just for learning and sharing There is distraction and aggravation in constantly defending those Scriptures.

But we all know if speaking in tongues just wasn't what it is, there wouldn't be all this opposition. They're offended.

Click to expand...

If the debate about tongues is in the Controversial Theology Forum or any other forum where anyone can debate, we can have a lot of enjoyment and fun debating the issue ad infinitum. I love a good stouch - keeps my brain alive. If a genuine person wants to ask genuine questions about tongues or any of the other gifts of the Spirit, he would be silly to put the question in a general forum where anyone can respond, attack, or debate. He would be better of putting his question on a protected forum where anyone who attacked his post and others' answers can be reported and have their posts removed from the thread.

So true

Debating the validity of tongues is not allowed in this particular forum, right? (too lazy to go look right now)

topher694 said:

Debating the validity of tongues is not allowed in this particular forum, right? (too lazy to go look right now)

Click to expand...

Yes it is!

I am not debating. I am answering the question how to tell if something is of God. We are told that God expects it to be in order and of good taste.

In my mourning reading I did find a text of interest that OP would find useful.

Ephesians 6:18 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
Pray at all times in the Spirit with every prayer and request, and stay alert with all perseverance and intercession for all the saints.

Daniel Marsh said:

I am not debating. I am answering the question how to tell if something is of God. We are told that God expects it to be in order and of good taste.

In my mourning reading I did find a text of interest that OP would find useful.

Ephesians 6:18 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
Pray at all times in the Spirit with every prayer and request, and stay alert with all perseverance and intercession for all the saints.

Click to expand...

Why are you sad?

body pain and deaths

Daniel Marsh said:

body pain and deaths

Click to expand...

My condolences

I like to pray, both in tongues and words.
I prefer to pray in words than tongues, though.
I like to see the hands of God at work.

ByTheSpirit said:

So I was wondering about this and before you just reply to my title, I ask you to humbly read my post.

I was curious about this because when I first started to pray in the Spirit I would have doubts, as I'm sure most do, if it was real or legitimate. I still do to be honest.

My question is, does the form or fashion of your prayer language really matter?

Scripture is clear that spiritual prayer is unintelligible to man, so any groans or sounds we make in faith-filled prayer, would that then classify as Spirit Filled prayer?

Mainly just to help those who may doubt, and thus by doubting not try.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct. Groans and cries from the heart are a form of speaking in unknown tongues. Paul said that NO MAN understands your tongues. It is not a foreign language or even a real language at all. Only God can look into your heart and know what is being expressed/said.
I worried about this when I first started speaking in tongues some 49 years ago. Eventually the Lord taught me the truth and I have ceased all such worry. We all can and DO speak in tongues. Every believer reading this has spoken in tongues. You just did not know what you were doing when you did it. That little cry that came out when interceding... that was tongues. That yearning cry that welled up in prayer and devotion... that was tongues. That groaning and sighing while in prayer... that too was tongues. Only God knows what it meant... and that is all that matters.
Jesus said that if you are a believer you speak in unknown tongues. Believe it! You have!

SavedByGrace3 said:

You are absolutely correct. Groans and cries from the heart are a form of speaking in unknown tongues. Paul said that NO MAN understands your tongues. It is not a foreign language or even a real language at all. Only God can look into your heart and know what is being expressed/said.
I worried about this when I first started speaking in tongues some 49 years ago. Eventually the Lord taught me the truth and I have ceased all such worry. We all can and DO speak in tongues. Every believer reading this has spoken in tongues. You just did not know what you were doing when you did it. That little cry that came out when interceding... that was tongues. That yearning cry that welled up in prayer and devotion... that was tongues. That groaning and sighing while in prayer... that too was tongues. Only God knows what it meant... and that is all that matters.
Jesus said that if you are a believer you speak in unknown tongues. Believe it! You have!

Click to expand...

If you look closely at what Paul says about speaking in tongues in 1 Corinthians, he doesn't talk at all about groaning and sighing while in prayer. He talks about deliberately and knowingly praying in tongues and interchanging it with praying in his native learned language. We need to accept what is actually there in in the chapter instead of trying to cobble another verse about groaning out of context into it.

SavedByGrace3 said:

You are absolutely correct. Groans and cries from the heart are a form of speaking in unknown tongues. Paul said that NO MAN understands your tongues. It is not a foreign language or even a real language at all. Only God can look into your heart and know what is being expressed/said.
I worried about this when I first started speaking in tongues some 49 years ago. Eventually the Lord taught me the truth and I have ceased all such worry. We all can and DO speak in tongues. Every believer reading this has spoken in tongues. You just did not know what you were doing when you did it. That little cry that came out when interceding... that was tongues. That yearning cry that welled up in prayer and devotion... that was tongues. That groaning and sighing while in prayer... that too was tongues. Only God knows what it meant... and that is all that matters.
Jesus said that if you are a believer you speak in unknown tongues. Believe it! You have!

Click to expand...

Praise GOD glory to Jesus. <--- I post that allot and every time.. I LOVE saying posting it. amen. Not sure I agree with "are a form of speaking in unknown tongues". But.. when that has happened.. just kept praying and praying till I know it was answered. Interceding amen! Something I think I have not been doing allot of.. Father forgive me.. change me in JESUS name

Oscarr said:

If you look closely at what Paul says about speaking in tongues in 1 Corinthians, he doesn't talk at all about groaning and sighing while in prayer. He talks about deliberately and knowingly praying in tongues and interchanging it with praying in his native learned language. We need to accept what is actually there in in the chapter instead of trying to cobble another verse about groaning out of context into it.

Click to expand...

I was in agreement with some prominent Bible scholars.

Ernst Käsemann on Romans 8.
Since a recognizable feature of worship provides the most likely object of Paul’s reference to groaning, Käsemann identifies it with tongues…
"Commentary on the Romans" (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1980)


Gordon Fee
“In any case, what Paul describes in Romans 8:26-27 is clearly a form of “praying in the Spirit,” the language he also uses for “speaking in tongues” in 1 Corinthians 14:15-16.
"Listening to the Spirit in the Text" By Gordon D. Fee

Wayne A. Grudem
“…Romans 8:26-27 talks about intercession that we make in sounds that are not fully understood by us, and therefore it is a phenomenon that has some similarities to speaking in tongues.”
"Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine"


Moreover, Paul states in right up front, no uncertain terms, that NO man understands tongues. No man of any language.

1 Corinthians 14:
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

No man means no man. If you are in a hall with people who represent every known language, and a person in that group can understand your prayer, then it is not tongues as described by Paul's letter. It may be some other manifestation that resembles tongues such as the Acts 2 event. It may be prophesying in an other language (such as the Acts 2 event). But it is not tongues.
Scripture cannot be broken. I understand Pentecostal and Charismatic believers have trouble with this undeniable fact. They are stuck in a incorrect teaching from uneducated men from a hundred years ago. In an attempt to escape these words they twist and bend and invent unfounded ideas and teachings. It only serves to rob believers of this experience.

It that is tragic, because so many beautiful believers go through years, some all their life, wondering why God has not granted the promise of Jesus: "they shall speak with new tongues" not knowing that they have already done it. Some even wonder if they are even believers. I have no doubt many of them have actually cried and groaned in prayer for tongues, not knowing that they were doing the very thing they were asking for. They are robbed of the joy by this incorrect teaching.
My experience has been that down through the years these tongues become very intricate and very much resemble real languages in both soundings and syntax.... but still, NO man understands them as being an actually earthly language. I myself actually prophesied before I spoke in tongues. And when I did pray in tongues a short while later it was very simple and a little strained. That because of incorrect expectations. I did not speak articulate French or ancient Greek. No language at all by our definition. Just a few words issued forth from the inexpressible feelings of my heart.

SavedByGrace3 said:

I was in agreement with some prominent Bible scholars.

Ernst Käsemann on Romans 8.
Since a recognizable feature of worship provides the most likely object of Paul’s reference to groaning, Käsemann identifies it with tongues…
"Commentary on the Romans" (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1980)


Gordon Fee
“In any case, what Paul describes in Romans 8:26-27 is clearly a form of “praying in the Spirit,” the language he also uses for “speaking in tongues” in 1 Corinthians 14:15-16.
"Listening to the Spirit in the Text" By Gordon D. Fee

Wayne A. Grudem
“…Romans 8:26-27 talks about intercession that we make in sounds that are not fully understood by us, and therefore it is a phenomenon that has some similarities to speaking in tongues.”
"Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine"


Moreover, Paul states in right up front, no uncertain terms, that NO man understands tongues. No man of any language.

1 Corinthians 14:
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

No man means no man. If you are in a hall with people who represent every known language, and a person in that group can understand your prayer, then it is not tongues as described by Paul's letter. It may be some other manifestation that resembles tongues such as the Acts 2 event. It may be prophesying in an other language (such as the Acts 2 event). But it is not tongues.
Scripture cannot be broken. I understand Pentecostal and Charismatic believers have trouble with this undeniable fact. They are stuck in a incorrect teaching from uneducated men from a hundred years ago. In an attempt to escape these words they twist and bend and invent unfounded ideas and teachings. It only serves to rob believers of this experience.

It that is tragic, because so many beautiful believers go through years, some all their life, wondering why God has not granted the promise of Jesus: "they shall speak with new tongues" not knowing that they have already done it. Some even wonder if they are even believers. I have no doubt many of them have actually cried and groaned in prayer for tongues, not knowing that they were doing the very thing they were asking for. They are robbed of the joy by this incorrect teaching.
My experience has been that down through the years these tongues become very intricate and very much resemble real languages in both soundings and syntax.... but still, NO man understands them as being an actually earthly language. I myself actually prophesied before I spoke in tongues. And when I did pray in tongues a short while later it was very simple and a little strained. That because of incorrect expectations. I did not speak articulate French or ancient Greek. No language at all by our definition. Just a few words issued forth from the inexpressible feelings of my heart.

Click to expand...

1 Corinthians 14:20-25 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)
20 Brothers and sisters,[a] do not be children in your thinking; rather, be infants in evil, but in thinking be adults. 21 In the law it is written,

‘By people of strange tongues
and by the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people;
yet even then they will not listen to me,’

says the Lord. 22 Tongues, then, are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if all prophesy, an unbeliever or outsider who enters is reproved by all and called to account by all. 25 After the secrets of the unbeliever’s heart are disclosed, that person will bow down before God and worship him, declaring, ‘God is really among you.’

It makes more sense that God in this case will use a language the unbeliever understands to expose their sin.