Sources Playing Down Climate Change

Neogaia777 · Jan 31, 2020

Robban said:
You cannot say what anyone should do then.

All you can do is try and give everyone a feeling of guilt.

No surprise there.

There are things we can all start doing each individually right now, but in order to get it to go beyond that, then we need to get people together who will very honestly evaluate the situation to spark national, worldly or global and/or corporate action, or else otherwise "inaction" right now, etc...

But the problem is we can't get people together to do that right now or to make a very honest evaluation of the "facts" right now, etc, so that we would know what we need to know to either do, or not do right now, etc, or take action or otherwise inaction on those levels, etc, cause everybody is too dang busy "playing politics", etc, or there is money and/or greed involved in it, on and in and from both sides, etc, so it's almost impossible, especially right now to get people to truly do that or this right now, etc...

And a little bit of guilt can be a good thing sometimes if it leads to good and positive and healthy and responsible action, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

grasping the after wind · Jan 31, 2020

thomas_t said:
Let's assume this source is right... it does not disprove any anthropogenic climate change.

thomas_t said:
This does not disprove any man-made climate change either. Even if this is what the data is indicating... this doesn't rule out man doing harm to the environment producing (more) climate change.

thomas_t said:
This does not exclude the greenhouse effect from happening

thomas_t said:
I was not reversing the burden of proof.

Seems like you are to me.

Neogaia777 · Jan 31, 2020

Neogaia777 said:
There are things we can all start doing each individually right now, but in order to get it to go beyond that, then we need to get people together who will very honestly evaluate the situation to spark national, worldly or global and/or corporate action, or else otherwise "inaction" right now, etc...

But the problem is we can't get people together to do that right now or to make a very honest evaluation of the "facts" right now, etc, so that we would know what we need to know to either do, or not do right now, etc, or take action or otherwise inaction on those levels, etc, cause everybody is too dang busy "playing politics", etc, or there is money and/or greed involved in it, on and in and from both sides, etc, so it's almost impossible, especially right now to get people to truly do that or this right now, etc...

And a little bit of guilt can be a good thing sometimes if it leads to good and positive and healthy and responsible action, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Cause individually there are things we could be doing also, that we need to be doing also, but we also need things to happen on the "higher than individual levels" right now also, etc...

But we need some truly honest evaluations and data, and not all these people just playing politics, etc, or doing what they are doing just for only their own agenda(s) or money and greed, etc, or as I said, "politics", etc...

Anyway,

Anyway, I 100% guarantee you that we are not, not impacting the earth in a negative way at all, etc, or are not, not "contributing to" impacting the earth in a negative way for us, or for the future generations of us, at all, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Robban · Jan 31, 2020

Neogaia777 said:
But individually there are things we could be doing also, that we need to be doing also, but we also need thing to happen on the "higher than individual levels" right now also, etc...

But we need some truly honest evaluations and data, and not all these people just playing politics, etc, or doing what they are doing just for only their own agenda(s) or money and greed, etc, or as I said, "politics", etc...

Anyway,

Anyway, I 100% guarantee you that we are not, not impacting the earth in a negative way at all, etc, or are not, not "contributing to" impacting the earth in a negative way for us at all, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Yeah, well be careful so you do not fall off your cloud.

createdtoworship · Jan 31, 2020

Neogaia777 said:
What is an appeal to emotion or an argument from passion that is based on facts called?

Is it or are they still a "fallacy" or "lie", etc...?

Yes or No...?

Cause they do exist, and exist a lot everywhere, etc... Not "every single appeal to emotion" or "all arguments from a place of passion" are all "always lies" or are "always based on only lies", etc, there are a lot of them, "a lot of them", that are actually based on "facts", etc, like what I am doing or saying here, etc...

So I'll ask you again, "What is an appeal to emotion, or an argument from passion, that is based on, or can be backed up by, "facts" called, etc...?

God Bless!

sir saying we are raping the planet but forgetting to provide the "facts" that you claim exist is just an appeal to emotion.

Examples of Appeal to Emotion:
1. Grocery store commercial that shows a happy family sitting around the table at Thanksgiving.

2. A real estate ad that shows a happy young family with children moving into the home of their dreams.

3. A politician who argues that the other party is going to cut spending and that will have a negative impact on grandmothers living on social security.

4. A political ad that shows the candidate shaking hands with the community as he leaves church on Sunday morning.

5. A baby products commercial that shows dad having a "night in" with his sons.

6. A principal who talks with his faculty about doing the right things to support students just before he asks for a volunteer to lead the after-school science club.

7. A Red Cross commercial that shows the aftermath of a hurricane just before asking viewers to donate money.

createdtoworship · Jan 31, 2020

Robban said:
You cannot say what anyone should do then.

All you can do is try and give everyone a feeling of guilt.

No surprise there.

don't feel guilty over a common misconception, I asked for peer reviews and so far no one has been able to give me an actual link to a peer review. I did dig one up from an article posted, but it was easily refuted. Many assumptions are given on the data we do have, what they don't get is that we can easily say the opposite conclusion is true over any of the data sets, so it's not really "factual." But the burden lies on them to prove global warming is mans problem and that it is warming at an alarming rate.

FireDragon76 · Jan 31, 2020

Tom Farebrother said:
It’s an unfortunate reality that among Christians there are those who assume for some reason that believing in God grants them some sort of insight into issues they know nothing about. It’s nothing new, here is Augustine on the same issue:

“Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation.”

Augustine did not forsee the Protestant Reformation and the huge can of unreason and kookiness that it would unleash. In the name of "faith alone", people would pre-emptively trash any idea that would threaten their fragile faith.

Robban · Feb 1, 2020

createdtoworship said:
don't feel guilty over a common misconception, I asked for peer reviews and so far no one has been able to give me an actual link to a peer review. I did dig one up from an article posted, but it was easily refuted. Many assumptions are given on the data we do have, what they don't get is that we can easily say the opposite conclusion is true over any of the data sets, so it's not really "factual." But the burden lies on them to prove global warming is mans problem and that it is warming at an alarming rate.

The sun rises at its appointed time and it sets at its appointed time,
the moon, "My faithful witness in the sky"
fulfills its functions, times, seaons, times of festivals,
tides all perfectly since they were created.

The hail and snow are stored in His vaults.

Now the magicians of Egypt (World) are putting their heads together to find the cause of sudden extreme weather conditions that are occuring here and there.

Pharaoh was a powerful figure but he did not recognize
or even realize the power of the Word of the Creator.

The mistake he made was he may have believed in the laws of nature, that which keep the world running,
ticking over.

What he did not know was that the One who runs the world has also other attributes,

The Almighty Creator is also known as, the One who transcends the laws of nature.

AvgJoe · Feb 2, 2020

thomas_t said:
This video was quoted by a Christian debating climate, here on CF.

Here's a more comprehensive video, on the subject of climate change alarmism, by Canadian climatologist and former professor, Dr. Tim Ball:

Neogaia777 · Feb 2, 2020

I know you guys want to limit this to just "climate change", but you know it's not just only climate change, right?

It the combination of factors that is going to, at some point, "do us in", etc.

Anyway,

God Bless!

God Bless!

thomas_t · Feb 3, 2020

AvgJoe said:
Here's a more comprehensive video, on the subject of climate change alarmism, by Canadian climatologist and former professor, Dr. Tim Ball:

Thank you. At least it's not a junk source.

At least no more "can of unreason", as @FireDragon76 puts it (I attend an evangelical church, though ...)
So let's dicuss Tim Ball's statements.
I think, Ball's attitude seems to be summarized best by the following quotation:
"Show this by-product of industry [namely CO2] was causing Earth-destroying global warming and you could justify shutting them down. The problem is you cannot identify the human-caused portion if you don’t understand natural climate change – and we don’t." Click here for source link.
In the video he argues that man can't even forecast the weather beyond a timeframe of 48h. So how, he argues, can we know how weather willl be like two years from know.

So he basically says, since we understand too little we can't blame anthropogenic CO2 for warming the earth.
Is it really that simple?
Is that some kind of benefit of ignorance?

If it seems likely that man driven CO2 is a factor in warming up the earth - at this point already humanity should show some reaction, I think. Just thinking of the Almighty Creator who can sort out everything if he wants (@Robban) .... isn't enough, in my opinion.

Ball's hypothesis is that climate is more influenced by cosmic rays forming particles or so-called condensation nuclei in the lower athmosphere (see same source). This argument appears to not suffer from the ignorance factor as laid out by above quote? But then why not?
Why should Ball feel entitled to say that the Cosmic Theory he refers to still stands even if we don't understand natural climate change,... but when it comes to anthopogenic CO2, in contrast, we should rather discount the alleged influence it has?

So he doesn't seem to take his own objection seriously when it comes to his own explanation of why earth is warming up currently?

Thomas

createdtoworship · Feb 3, 2020

People call me stupid for believing in God then go off to believe in weather predictions made from a groundhog..

FireDragon76 · Feb 3, 2020

thomas_t said:
Thank you. At least it's not a junk source.
At least no more "can of unreason", as @FireDragon76 puts it (I attend an evangelical church, though ...)

Evangelical means something different in Germany, than the US. Evangelical in the US is really a term that moderate fundamentalists adopted to describe themselves for public relations purposes. Over time it has become identified with a certain kind of soft white nationalist politics that is pervasive in some parts of the country.

AvgJoe · Feb 3, 2020

thomas_t said:
This video was quoted by a Christian debating climate, here on CF.

It mentions a source from 1922 saying it was extremely warm at the Arctic [minute 2:00] ... warning that sea levels could dramatically rise.
Let's assume this source is right... it does not disprove any anthropogenic climate change.

The person speaking at the beginning of the video said, according to data from another source, most of the time it used to be warmer than now during the last 10.000 years.
This does not disprove any man-made climate change either. Even if this is what the data is indicating... this doesn't rule out man doing harm to the environment producing (more) climate change.

The last person speaking said that there was a lot of carbon dioxide in their room insinuating that it did not do any harm to the people inside.
This does not exclude the greenhouse effect from happening either, as that one refers to the atmosphere. Not to a closed room.

So if there is man-made climate change having something to do with the recent damage done to the environment, then we should take it seriously. Laughing it down should not be an option. (The four men couldn't stop laughing in the video). The environment belongs to God... not to us. Man is to care for it, but we have no mandate to destroy.

Disclaimer: I would like to distance myself from a remark against me presonally when debating this topic last time. I'm not ignorant. I'm no hoaxer either.
Please debate the topic - not me as a person.

Here's another link to look at: https://www.chromalytic.com.au/pdf2/12-04-15_why_scientists_disagree .pdf

Sources Playing Down Climate Change

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