Now that we have our own thread, how do we convince the pre-tribbers that the rapture is really at the end?
The only way to convince anyone of anything is by plain Scripture. I have found most believers are not willing to give up pet theories, when they are cemented in them, especially when taught to them by 'respected' leaders. Not only must they be willing to change their minds, but also willing to change their opinion of their leaders.
In any case, I was once a firm believer in pre-trib rapture, as taught by my leaders. But now I don't believe that at all.
There are several problems:
1. We are to enter into the kingdom of God by
much tribulation. And the last days tribulation prophesied by Daniel was specifically to purify the people of God.
-Why would we pray God to do so, and why would God do so, to be taken out of the way of that which God specifically i
ntends for our purifying and perfecting and good?
-We flee sin, not tribulation for righteousness' sake, wherein we are blessed, but rather we
endure it to the end.
2. We are not appointed to wrath. True. Not the wrath of God, but we are destined to wrath of man on earth.
-There are two kinds of tribulation in Scripture: The wrath of man persecuting the faithful, which purifies them that endure or defeats them that fall away. And the wrath of God judging the wicked, which destroys or redeems them that repent.
-God's wrath produces tribulation and aguish upon them that repent not to the end, and man's wrath produces tribulation and purification upon them that abide to the end.
3. The last great tribulation period will be as in the days of Noah, where the flood came and took them all away
unawares.
-It was the very
sudden flooding of the earth that destroyed them that repented not unto the end, just after Noah entered the ark, which would be when the saints enter the clouds.
-They were making merry and sending gifts and being married up to the end, while the ark was a preparing for years. There was no great 'prep' time to let them know the Lord's judgment was coming.
4. That the 'gentile church' is raptured, and then God turns
one last time to the Jews only.
-There is no such thing as the 'gentile' church and body of Christ.
-Jesus was in fact the
confirmation of the last days prophecy to come to His own, and they received Him not.
-therefore, we are i
n the last days where the prophecy is now being fulfilled on earth by the Spirit with both Jew and Greek.
-I do not see in Scripture the Lord Himself coming to His own
first, and
then to the gentiles, and
then back again to the Jews only. That would be a reversal of the Gospel were God would have
all men to be saved.
-Likewise, the angel in mid-heaven will be preaching the Gospel to
all inhabitors of the earth at the last hour of tribulation on earth.
-The last great tribulation on earth will be in opposition to
all believers, not just the Jews.
-Scripture makes it plain that those 'left behind' will
all be ordained to wrath of God, especially those who fell away from Jesus to the wicked. No second chances. Especially since any repentance and faith will be
by sight: the sight of the absences of so many people, whether Jew or Greek.
-And to say that will be the case with gentiles only, would mean the Jews would not be by sight, because the believing Jews would remain behind to minister to them? Not Scripture.
-The 1st resurrection is for
all the dead in Christ and
all that are alive and remain.
5. The saved and washed during the tribulation would have no part in the 1st Resurrection and so not blessed.
-Some have suggested a 'phased in' resurrection, where those resurrected are in part
at different times, in order to include saints washed in the blood of the Lamb during the tribulation.
-There is no Scripture for that. Those who have 'part' in the 1st resurrection are all those who are 'part' of the body of Christ.
-Others have more
mystically said that those washed in the blood during tribulation have
missed the 1st resurrection and the 'Gospel age', and therefore are not s
o blessed in inherit everlasting life, but are merely immortal 'spirit beings' serving God in His temple.
-Obviously that is mysticism, not mystery, with no Scripture at all, and it would also mean that we can be washed in the blood of the Lamb, be saints of God having and keeping the faith of Jesus to the end, and yet not be born again into His body, nor confessed by Him before the angels.
-Likewise, there is no 'Gospel age'. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the everlasting Gospel preached for everlasting, and even if there were none to bear witness of His cross, He will be doing so forever by the very marks and prints of the cross in His body: As a Lamb that was slain in the midst of the throne.
6. The church must be raptured in order for the 1st beast, that man of sin, to 'appear'.
-That is plainly so; however, in the realms of false teaching to the extent of cultism, the beginning is never apparent and
open from the start, but rather is subtle and deceiving. A little leaven in the beginning will in time leaven the whole lump, if not repented of and purged.
-This last great 'antichrist' will come riding in on a white horse to save everyone's day in Christ, but only a
fter a period of deceptive time and rise to power, does he 'appear' truly as himself, and will be seen as riding in on a whited horse to conquer everyone's faith, not to help them that believe.
-That is how a false christ and apostle ascends before the saints, as angels of light, not as fire breathing dragons of persecution and destruction. At least not in the beginning.
-The elect will be taken out of the way
after the period of deception and trying of faith, with some falling away first, which
must occur before the resurrection.
-The first part of the last and greatest tribulation will be the rise and deception of the 1st beast with persecution upon the faithful in Christ, whether Jew or Greek, which will end with the 1st resurrection, followed
immediately by the coming of the Lord and His judgment upon the wicked that are left behind, whether Jew or Greek.
-The dragon is finally cast out of the air, no longer prince and power thereof, and he will rage in wrath
for a short period to gather his armies together at Armageddon.
7. Finally, the coming of the Lord's return is for the
first purpose of receiving His people to Himself, and then judgment upon all inhabitors of the earth.
-Even as the
first purpose of the Lord's flood was to rescue Noah from the wicked
by the water, and then destroy them not in the ark.
-And so the Lord's return into the air will be
during the last time of the tribulation, the very hour of judgment, with His church in the air amidst clouds so innumerable as to cover the entire sky, leaving only plagues of God's judgement below in darkness, with not even the sun to shine upon them clearly.