Who will populate the earth in the 1000 year Reign

Andrewn said:

Isn't there a contradiction between the above statements?

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lol! No, there is no a contradiction. The "questions states, "You do not believe...." I was not asked, "Do you believe?" I was told "You do not believe>>>>" with a question mark at the end of each leading question.

You do NOT believe....(?) when in fact I do believe.

"You do NOT believe in a literal future coming of Christ?"
"You DO believe in a literal future coming of Christ?"

Big difference.

Had I been told I DO believe.... I'd be having a much different conversation with the other poster because the other poster would taking care of his own dross. It would be an even better conversation were there no leading questions and the questions simply asked, "Do you believe.....?" rather than "You do not believe...?"

So you'll understand my taking the time to point out the subterfuge of (negatively) leading questions before I clarified my position.

Andrewn said:

Isn't there contradiction between the above statements?

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Not at all. Partial preterists have long held to the position Christ comes in many ways at many times for many purposes. This can be found in amil, postmil, and idealist eschatology a plenty. And as far as the no actual specific or explicit mention of "The Second Coming," that's just a fact of scripture. The closest anyone will come to such a mention is Hebrews 9:28 and that salvation is a salvation "without reference to sin"! Look it up.

The Dispensationalist 1000 year reign is definitely related to sin, according to the Dispensationalists!



So, no, no contradictions on either account. Thanks for asking, though; I'm happy to clarify both concerns.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Is this a true question seeking an answer honestly ?

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Yep, and I'd like Dave L to answer it because my question is related to something he posted earlier. You are welcome to weigh in but the question is asked specifically of Dave L.


Does Jesus have flesh?

Josheb said:

The Dispensationalist 1000 year reign is definitely related to sin, according to the Dispensationalists!

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Says who ? Where ?

Dave L said:

There is more but this rules out any physical millennial kingdom.

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No. Nothing you posted or quoted, nothing anyone posted, nothing anywhere rules this out.

food4thought said:

Totally, absolutely, completely, and unreservedly agreed!



I think the ENTIRE Mosaic Law was fulfilled by Christ. His perfect life and substitutionary death fulfilled it all. Yet here in Matthew 5:17-20 we have Jesus giving a command to obey the entire Mosaic Law and prophets... what are we to do with that? Dispensationalism answers that clearly.



True, much of the commands of the NC are reiterations of OC laws. But there are more than just two covenants. Noah. Abraham. David. Just to name the most obvious. Dispensationalism makes sense of these things.



Ok, but there are more than that in Scripture.

I am not necessarily trying to get people to change their theology to Dispensationalism (although I would not be displeased if someone were to do so lol), but what I am trying to do is demonstrate that Dispensationalism is reasonable, Biblical, and understandable... not heresy. Not evil. Not something to be attacked vigorously at every opportunity (as it seems to be these days).

God bless you, Jamdoc;
Michael, your brother in Christ

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The thing is, all of those people you listed, were saved by the same thing, whether they had been given the law or not, they had faith and their faith was counted as righteousness. The answer to me is, that Jesus Christ's sacrifice could be applied retroactively, since God already knew it was going to happen. I'm re-reading the Torah now in fact and it always stands out to me that God gives laws and Man shows he is COMPLETELY incapable of keeping them. Every single time. So those animal sacrifices in Leviticus, were those what saved these people under the law? No. The same thing that saves you or I, the same thing that saved Noah, the same thing that saved Abraham, even his backslidden nephew Lot, the thing that saved them was faith in the Lord, their faith can be DEMONSTRATED in their obedience in Abraham and Noah's cases, especially when we get to Moses, where they're given a complicated (I get so crisscrossed at the different sacrifices and feel like they repeat themselves so many times, so many "sweet savor unto the Lord"'s .. I kind of had to laugh when Aaron got in trouble for messing up once, I thought "looks like Aaron was confused too") law to obey, if they obeyed, OBVIOUSLY they had faith and feared the Lord. The children of Israel who started doubting God, started speaking against Him, thinking He'd led them out to the wilderness to die (which eventually He did once they'd reached the limits of His patience), He smote them. However observance to the law was not faith itself, just demonstration of it.
So then you read into it and think "why the animal sacrifices? Did the blood of the animals really justify people who sinned as atonement?" No. It was never said that it did. God simply commanded they make the offerings. Why?
Symbolism, layers and layers of symbolism. It makes you think about sin, that sin causes death, in this case an animal dies because of sin, blood represents life, so the cost of atoning for sin is life itself, which is why the sin offerings had their blood sprinkled on the altar, to represent the payment that Christ would make on the cross. It also had to be without blemish, again representing Jesus, and also probably the most prized animal in the flock, to show that you lose something PRECIOUS due to sin. The bread and drink offerings.. the Lord's Supper right there. Symbolic of the body and blood of Christ. Some of the Old Testament only makes sense in hindsight of the New.
But ultimately I believe that there was no different dispensations, there has only ever truly been faith in the Lord, in particular faith in Jesus Christ.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Says who ? Where ?

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Hmmm... My turn: Is this a true question seeking an answer honestly?

Because Premillennial Dispensationalism says the church is corrupt and the world is going to go to hell in a hand basket requiring God to remove all the Christians and set up rule in Jerusalem for a literal 1000 years by which the Jews will come to repentance and faith in Jesus and....... be saved. The entire scenario is bookended between two judgements..... of sin!

Do you need me to shown you the leading Dispensationalists asserting this position? If so then I'll make that clear, along with the fact you don't know Dispensationalism and therefore have no business telling anyone what Dispies believe. If that evidence is not needed then you've got no business asking questions to which the answer is already known.

So figure out what you're doing here in this discussion and stop screwing around.

Josheb said:

Hmmm... My turn: Is this a true question seeking an answer honestly?

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Certainly.
The assumptions or unknown verified (I don't know it's verified) needs clarifying to understand.

I'm not sure of your previous answer, waiting to see.
No worries though, all is being worked out...

Josheb said:

Because Premillennial Dispensationalism says the church is corrupt and the world is going to go to hell in a hand basket requiring God to remove all the Christians and set up rule in Jerusalem for a literal 1000 years by which the Jews will come to repentance and faith in Jesus and....... be saved. The entire scenario is bookended between two judgements..... of sin!

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No, I don't think so. A lot of claims similar to this have been posted over the years, but not apparently based on true testimonies/ ideas/ etc ...

sovereigngrace said:

But according to Jesus there is no death or marrying in the age to come.

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No, He said that in the resurrection, there is no marrying. The folks that go into the Messianic Kingdom on earth after the Tribulation period are mortal, not resurrected. They are the "sheep" of the judgement of the nations that occurs when Messiah comes to rule. Matthew 25 and Joel 3.

Matthew 22:30 (NKJV) For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

Copperhead said:

No, He said that in the resurrection, there is no marrying. The folks that go into the Messianic Kingdom on earth after the Tribulation period are mortal, not resurrected. They are the "sheep" of the judgement of the nations that occurs when Messiah comes to rule. Matthew 25 and Joel 3.

Matthew 22:30 (NKJV) For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

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You need to read it again! He is talking about inheriting the age to come. This involves our glorification in order to be suitably adorned to enter it. This comes through the resurrection/catching up.

Luke 20:27-33 records: “Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him, Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children. And the second took her to wife, and he died childless. And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died. Last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.”

Christ replies in Luke 20:34-36: “The children of this world (or aion or age) marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world (or aion or age), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”

It is impossible to miss the constant comparison between “this world” and “that world” or “this age” and “that age.” Those who live in this current evil age are described as “the children of this age” but those who are depicted as being “worthy to obtain that age” to come are described exclusively as “the children of God, being the children of the resurrection” and as being “equal unto the angels.” One must be suitably qualified in order inherit the new world to come. Those that are worthy to obtain that age are not mortals and not sinners; they are rather glorified saints – who incidentally never marry or die.

Let us pause for a moment and consider what is being said here: people marry right up until the second coming, but in the age to come they don’t marry because the saints of God will be adorned with their new glorified eternal bodies. What is more: Christ shows that people die right up until the second coming but in the age to come they don’t die. Why? Because sin, sinners and the wicked are not welcome on the new glorified perfected earth that Christ introduces at the second coming. This is not the case with the Premillennial and Preterist age to come; marriage, divorce, funerals and mourning continues unabated. This passage forbids both the Premillennial and Preterist theories.

sovereigngrace said:

It is impossible to miss the constant comparison between “this world” and “that world” or “this age” and “that age.”

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Yes it is possible. In none of the passages you quoted does it delineate this world and the world to come, which is the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 22, which is AFTER the 1000 year Messianic Kingdom.

And also, how is there death in the Messianic Kingdom and rebellion in the Messianic Kingdom? So much so that Messiah is ruling with a "rod of iron" which implies He is having to put the heavy hand down on those who get out of line. The Scripture is pretty clear about that in the OT and NT. And when Satan is released at the end of the 1000 years, how is it he is able to foment a final rebellion against Messiah if only redeemed, resurrected, immortal people are around? No, Psalms 2 along with Revelation 21 shows that sin is still present, which by default means there are mortals living in the Messianic Kingdom.

Even some of the kingdom parables of Matthew 13 amplify this.

Yet we know that in the new heaven and new earth, death has been eliminated.

Copperhead said:

Yes it is possible. In none of the passages you quoted does it delineate this world and the world to come, which is the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 22, which is AFTER the 1000 year Messianic Kingdom.

And also, how is there death in the Messianic Kingdom and rebellion in the Messianic Kingdom? So much so that Messiah is ruling with a "rod of iron" which implies He is having to put the heavy hand down on those who get out of line. The Scripture is pretty clear about that in the OT and NT. And when Satan is released at the end of the 1000 years, how is it he is able to foment a final rebellion against Messiah if only redeemed, resurrected, immortal people are around? No, Psalms 2 along with Revelation 21 shows that sin is still present, which by default means there are mortals living in the Messianic Kingdom.

Even some of the kingdom parables of Matthew 13 amplify this.

Yet we know that in the new heaven and new earth, death has been eliminated.

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This future Premil age will never happen. Repeated climactic Scripture forbids it. Both Premils and Preterists must have three ages in their school of thought: “this age, the age to come and another age to come after that.” However, Christ only recognizes two ages in His teaching – “this world/age” and “the world/age to come.” One is current, corrupt and temporal and the other is impending, perfect and eternal. These terms are commonly used in the New Testament when contrasting the toil and trouble of the here-and-now with the glory and pristine nature of the hereafter. These two common phrases are found in different places in the New Testament, along with several other similar expressions, referring to time and eternity.

For the sake of clarity, the phrases “this world” and “the world to come” in the KJV are better interpreted “this age” and “the age to come.” The Greek word that is often interpreted “world” in this contrast is aion. But, it is not specifically speaking about the physical globe that we live on. It rather relates to: a vast period that is normally marked by what is said to occur within that period.

sovereigngrace said:

This future Premil age will never happen. Repeated climactic Scripture forbids it. Both Premils and Preterists must have three ages in their school of thought: “this age, the age to come and another age to come after that.”

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`But God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that IN THE AGES TO COME he might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness towards us in Christ Jesus.` (Eph. 2: 4 - 7)

Marilyn C said:

`But God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that IN THE AGES TO COME he might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness towards us in Christ Jesus.` (Eph. 2: 4 - 7)

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Scripture does not contradict itself. There are only 2 ages recognized. When aion is used in a plural sense it actually refers to eternity.

Premillennialists and some Partial Preterists present the reference to future “ages” in Ephesians 2:7 as support for the idea of a future age in-between “this age” and “the age to come.” However, that is certainly not the force of the passage. In fact, there is not the slightest hint of an intermediate age in between these two unique ages. Rather the opposite. The reference states, speaking of God: “That in the ages (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165) to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.”

This text could equally be interpreted eternity. Even in English, we use a similar term to describe eternity – namely “the aeons” (taken from Latin). In its context, this clearly refers to eternity. When the words aeon in Latin and aion in Greek are used in a singular sense they normally relate to this current temporal age, unless expressly stating the “age to come.” When used in a plural way, they normally refer to the impending eternal age that arrives at the Second Coming. When used in the plural they refer to an extremely long period or the eternal. In geology the plural word refers to the longest time period possible. Research of the original Greek will demonstrate that when used in a future sense the aions (plural) refer to future relate eternity.

In the next chapter to Ephesians 2 in Ephesians 3:21 we see: “Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages (genea or generations – plural), world (aion singular noun – Strong’s 165 without end (aion singular noun – Strong’s 165). Amen.” Ephesians 3:21 refers to the eternal state as “the age [of] the ages (or toú aioónos toón aioónoon)” or the age of eternity.”

Let us look at a number of (the many) inspired passages that show that the plural noun aion can equate to the eternal.

aion plural – Strong’s 165

Romans 11:36: “For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165). Amen.”

Romans 16:27: “To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165. Amen.”

2 Corinthians 11:31: “The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165, knoweth that I lie not.”

Galatians 1:5: “To whom be glory for ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165 and ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165. Amen.”

Ephesians 3:11: “According to the eternal (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165) purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Philippians 4:20: “Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165). Amen.”

1 Timothy 1:17: “Now unto the King eternal (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165), immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165) and ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165). Amen.”

2 Timothy 4:18: “And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165) and ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165). Amen.”

Hebrews 13:8: “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165).”

1 Peter 4:11: “If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165) and ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165). Amen.”

1 Peter 5:11: “To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165). Amen.”

Revelation 1:18: “I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore (aion plural noun – Strong’s 165), Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”

The reality is, Ephesians 2:7 makes no mention of some other future age. The presentation of this passage as supposed evidence of another future age is untenable. There is not the slightest intimation of 2 future ages in this passage.

sovereigngrace said:

Scripture does not contradict itself. There are only 2 ages recognized. When aion is used in a plural sense it actually refers to eternity.

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I agree that it is eternity. However in eternity there will be age upon age upon age. God is a creative God and He has wonders and glories yet untold and in the AGES to come, in the eternity of ages we will give Him all the glory and all the honour.

Marilyn C said:

I agree that it is eternity. However in eternity there will be age upon age upon age. God is a creative God and He has wonders and glories yet untold and in the AGES to come, in the eternity of ages we will give Him all the glory and all the honour.

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The Second Coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Repeated Scripture shows that now is the only day of salvation. After showing us the destruction of this earth, the works that are in it, the heavens, the elements when Jesus comes, and after describing the longsuffering of God in the days of Noah before the destruction of all the wicked, Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: "the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). He was reaffirming that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming. A sign of the end is that the Gospel must “be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14). The second coming brings the curtain down on the great commission. Once the ark door closes it is too late (Matthew 25:10-13 & Matt 28:19-20).

The age to come has no room for "mortals" (Luke 20:34-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and Revelation 21-22) or the unregenerate (Psalms 37:9-11, Luke 17:26-30, 1 Corinthians 6:9, I Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

John 6:39-44, 54, John 11:21-27, John 12:48, Ephesians 1:10 and Revelation 10:5-7 would seem to suggest that time reaches its fullness at the climactic return of Christ. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Luke 20:34-36, Acts 3:19-21, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 ,1 Peter 1:3-5 and Revelation 21:1-5) all show that the end of the bondage of corrupt occurs when Jesus comes. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

1 Corinthians 13:12, Ephesians 4:13 and Revelation 10:5-7 show that the curtain coming down on the mystery of God, thus confirming we are at the end of time and entering into eternity when all will finally be revealed. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Repeated Scripture locates the replacement of the current heavens and earth with the new heavens and earth and incorruption at the second coming. Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15 shows us that this occurs at the second coming. This is indeed the end of time, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil. It is the beginning of eternity. It is the beginning of perfection. It is the beginning of incorruption. It is the beginning of a new arrangement.

It seems like whatever angle you examine the second coming it appears to be climactic, final and glorious.

sovereigngrace said:

The Second Coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Repeated Scripture shows that now is the only day of salvation. After showing us the destruction of this earth, the works that are in it, the heavens, the elements when Jesus comes, and after describing the longsuffering of God in the days of Noah before the destruction of all the wicked, Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: "the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). He was reaffirming that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming. A sign of the end is that the Gospel must “be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14). The second coming brings the curtain down on the great commission. Once the ark door closes it is too late (Matthew 25:10-13 & Matt 28:19-20).

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Let`s look a bit closer at what Peter actually said.

`But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both of which the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.` (2 Peter 3: 10)

The `Day` is a specific day and also a period of time. The period of time starts with the tribulation and continues right through to the end of the millennium, when the earth and the heavens will pass away.

God`s hand of mercy is outstretched in the millennium to all who call on the Lord.
`Then the end shall come,` refers to the end of the Gentiles world rule. Israel will rule the nations under the Lord as God made for them to do. God did not have an oops when He made Israel to rule the nations righteously. They rebelled, as God knew, however under Christ they will rule righteously and justly.

Josheb said:

Thank you. I appreciate the fact the question asked was answered. Next question:


Does Jesus have flesh?

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“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” 1 John 3:2 (KJV 1900)

miggles said:

didn't revelations say God will come down to earth and make jerusalem his throne tho?

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On the last day, When Jesus returns this happens. After the resurrection and rapture

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.” 2 Peter 3:7 (KJV 1900)

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” 2 Peter 3:10–13 (KJV 1900)

SavedByGrace3 said:

But are the two verses parallel? I am curious if you have this info.

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The depict the same message.