Who will populate the earth in the 1000 year Reign

SavedByGrace3

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Thanks for the reply!
BTW, I have not been a dispensationalist since the late 70s. That is not the basis of my belief.

There is NO evidence. The opposite is the truth. You are trying to divide the indivisible. The ironic part of Dispy thinking is that they make "the kingdom of heaven" a carnal earthly political kingdom and "the God of God" a spiritual heavenly kingdom. This alone is absurd, contradictory, unbiblical and extra-biblical. Everything about Dispensationalism is confusing and doesn't add up.

An elementary comparison between the two in the New Testament will show that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are just similar expressions to describe the one same Kingdom. Those who disconnect the repeated synonymous terms “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” do gravely undermine the simple truth that there is but one eternal righteous kingdom that belongs to “the God of heaven.” It is God ordained and God controlled; and whilst it is currently headquartered in heavenly domain it finds its earthly demonstration within the persecuted Church of Jesus Christ. Significantly, in Revelation, we see the righteous giving glory to “the God of heaven” (11:13) and the wicked blaspheming “the God of heaven” (16:10-11).
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Could you then explain the basis for your belief?
I did the study back in the early 80s. I suspect the notes are long gone. It would be good to revisit it again. I just remember the conclusion was pretty sound. I'll let you know if I work it up again.
Thanks!
 
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sovereigngrace

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I did the study back in the early 80s. I suspect the notes are long gone. It would be good to revisit it again. I just remember the conclusion was pretty sound. I'll let you know if I work it up again.
Thanks!

Sounds good!
 
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Dave L

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Thanks Dave...
But there is evidence that the two are not the same. One is inside you, the other is on the earth.
JMHO.
The are exactly the same.
“From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17)

“And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” (Mark 1:15)
 
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dms1972

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The "A" in Amillennial actually means 'no literal millennium'. They believe that "a thousand" is an indefinite symbolic number relating to the intra-Advent period. Strictly, Postmillennial is a better description. But that has come to describe hyper-optimistic Amils over the years.



OK an indefinite time - a symbolic millenium. I cannot dismiss the teaching on the Millenium because its difficult and I have trouble understanding what some people say about it. As someone with plenty to learn on this complex subject I am happy to accept the Millenium in the form that the Bible teaches it, even if I don't understand it fully. Faith (accepting what God says in his Word) precedes understanding for me. So on the Basis of revelation 20 the Millenium I read about there, its in heaven foremost, could that be why its seems a bit vague to us as moderns?. According to the Lord's prayer In heaven God's Kingdom and Will are done. Then we are to pray "On earth as it is in heaven." That seems to me to mean God's Will be done on Earth and His Kingdom come. I would say that means not "come into existence" but be more fully established on earth as it is in heaven.

Happy to discuss more with you feel free to disagree, or offer your own insights on this issue. :)
 
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SavedByGrace3

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The are exactly the same.
“From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17)

“And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” (Mark 1:15)
Are these parallel passages?
 
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JacksBratt

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The 2nd Coming, The return of Christ begins a new era.

Who will populate the earth. and how will this happen.
Many will argue. It's a debate waiting to happen..

So... I will just say that my belief is that there will be a millennial age, here on earth, after Armageddon, when Satan will be bound and the earth will be ruled by Christ.

I believe that those that live and populate the earth will be... Christ Himself..., those who were raptured..and are in incorruptible bodies and will work with Christ in His rule.. There will also be those that made it through the tribulation, alive, and righteous.. so... the 144,000 converted Jews and any other that had attained salvation during those days.

They will live for long live spans. It will be an embarrassment for one to not live long.

Since these people will live without the temptations of Satan and his crew.. in the end.. Satan will be loosed and some will fall to his deception...

That's my view.. and I have read the book of Revelation and many commentaries on it. I have heard al the other arguments and those that believe otherwise are welcome to their opinion.

If you disagree.... Look me up in paradise and we can sit by the tree of life and laugh about all the things we got wrong about our future beliefs.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Mark uses Kingdom of God. Matthew uses Kingdom of Heaven in parallel passages in their gospels.
But are the two verses parallel? I am curious if you have this info.
 
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miggles

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Jesus taught a spiritual kingdom only. You need to adjust OT prophecy to this. The prophets spoke using material entities as symbols. Abraham saw Canaan as a symbol for heaven. Elijah was a symbol for John the Baptist, etc.
didn't revelations say God will come down to earth and make jerusalem his throne tho?
 
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food4thought

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Thank you for taking the time, by the way.

My pleasure.

You are telling me what you believe, but not showing me why and how. No Pretribber can show their scenario (describing (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a further Coming of Christ) because it does not exist in the sacred text.

If you are saying that in order to believe in the pre-trib rapture you need a single passage that lays the entire thing out, then you are indeed right. No such passage exists. But there is no single passage that lays out the Amillennial view, either.

I) Rapture
  1. It is a Scriptural event: 1 Thessalonians 4:17... English "caught up", Greek "harpadso", Latin "rapturo" (I think).
  2. Separate from 2nd coming: this was the point of my last post (#68).
  3. Before tribulation: 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10... the faithful church will be kept "from" (not "through") the wrath of God poured out during the great tribulation.
II) Seven year tribulation
  1. The great tribulation is a Scriptural event: Matthew 24:21; Daniel 12:1
  2. The length of the tribulation:
- The entire tribulation (7 years): Daniel 9:26-27
- The great tribulation (~3 and 1/2 years): Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:11; Revelation 12:14
III) 2nd coming of Christ:
  1. The fact of it: Revelation 19:11-21
  2. Following the great tribulation: Matthew 24:29-31



It is you that is bringing these two passages to the table. The burden of proof is on you to show us why and how these two passages could not be describing the same event. Why do these not correlate?

I don't want to be rude, but are you being deliberately evasive? I detailed that point in my post #68... maybe you should re-read it. It is crystal clear to me.

God bless you;
Michael
 
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Jamdoc

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Many will argue. It's a debate waiting to happen..

So... I will just say that my belief is that there will be a millennial age, here on earth, after Armageddon, when Satan will be bound and the earth will be ruled by Christ.

I believe that those that live and populate the earth will be... Christ Himself..., those who were raptured..and are in incorruptible bodies and will work with Christ in His rule.. There will also be those that made it through the tribulation, alive, and righteous.. so... the 144,000 converted Jews and any other that had attained salvation during those days.

They will live for long live spans. It will be an embarrassment for one to not live long.

Since these people will live without the temptations of Satan and his crew.. in the end.. Satan will be loosed and some will fall to his deception...

That's my view.. and I have read the book of Revelation and many commentaries on it. I have heard al the other arguments and those that believe otherwise are welcome to their opinion.

If you disagree.... Look me up in paradise and we can sit by the tree of life and laugh about all the things we got wrong about our future beliefs.

It's like 1 last test. Satan bound and the survivors of the wrath of God, having witnessed firsthand the wrath of God, and the second coming, and the rapture, and now having Jesus Christ as their literal ruler on earth, have every last chance to believe on Christ and be saved, without the influence of Satan, the beast, or the demons, they'll have witnessed where that all leads them. Many will convert, but many won't really convert, and consider the strict rules and punishments for sin under the millennium (rule by a rod of iron..), being administered by seemingly immortal people appointed to rule them that they didn't choose or vote on, to be unfair and unjust and cruel, and want a way out of it, they'll continue to have children and those children will NOT have first hand witnessed the destruction of Daniel's 70th week and the glory of the second coming, so you're going to have multiplying unbelievers, who grow up thinking it's messed up that a woman is stoned to death "just" for having sex before getting married, and thinking the immortal people judging them aren't really appointed by God, but must just be "the elite" who have some technology that lets them live forever. So when Satan is loosed, they'll be ready to listen to him and he'll convince them to rise up and try to overthrow the "elite"
 
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food4thought

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I discovered that the second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Repeated Scripture shows that now is the only day of salvation. After showing us the destruction of this earth, the works that are in it, the heavens, the elements when Jesus comes, and after describing the longsuffering of God in the days of Noah before the destruction of all the wicked, Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: "the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). He was reaffirming that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming. A sign of the end is that the Gospel must “be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14). The second coming brings the curtain down on the great commission. Once the ark door closes it is too late (Matthew 25:10-13 & Matt 28:19-20).

Yes, it appears that the days of the current dispensation, and it's freedom from being bound by Law, are brought to a close by the 2nd coming. Dispensationalism, as you probably know, teaches that salvation has always been by grace through faith, on the basis of Christ's substitutionary death and resurrection, but the content of that faith has shifted from dispensation to dispensation. After the return of Christ, there will most likely again be a shift in the content of the faith required for salvation. I AM NOT saying that the substitutionary death, burial, and resurrection of Christ will not be the basis of salvation during the Kingdom, but there will probably be more to it than faith in that (what, I cannot say with any certainty, but it appears that the Kingdom Law will be similar to, but not exactly the same as, the Mosaic Law).
 
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food4thought

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@sovereigngrace

Here is the basic question I have for all non-dispensationalists (I am genuinely interested in hearing how you answer this, it might be the catalyst for me changing my views):

Whatever do you do with Matthew 5:19? Are we under the law or not?
 
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Jamdoc

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@sovereigngrace

Here is the basic question I have for all non-dispensationalists (I am genuinely interested in hearing how you answer this, it might be the catalyst for me changing my views):

Whatever do you do with Matthew 5:19? Are we under the law or not?
Not everyone in heaven/new earth gets the same reward. We're under grace for salvation but if we don't obey the laws of God, if we don't do works, we will be "the least in heaven". The most tangible thing is Jesus' parable in Luke 19. Those who did not do works will not be ruling over many cities (at least in the Millennium). They may be relegated to very little authority, since they did not show that they can handle such responsibility in life. They can still be loved as God's child, and glorified, but they won't be trusted with authority. In a family, they're the toddler, you don't tell the toddler to watch over the rest of the family while you you are temporarily away, but you might trust your oldest and most responsible for a task like that. But it does not mean that toddler isn't your child and you don't love them.
 
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sovereigngrace

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My pleasure.



If you are saying that in order to believe in the pre-trib rapture you need a single passage that lays the entire thing out, then you are indeed right. No such passage exists. But there is no single passage that lays out the Amillennial view, either.

I) Rapture
  1. It is a Scriptural event: 1 Thessalonians 4:17... English "caught up", Greek "harpadso", Latin "rapturo" (I think).
  2. Separate from 2nd coming: this was the point of my last post (#68).
  3. Before tribulation: 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10... the faithful church will be kept "from" (not "through") the wrath of God poured out during the great tribulation.
II) Seven year tribulation
  1. The great tribulation is a Scriptural event: Matthew 24:21; Daniel 12:1
  2. The length of the tribulation:
- The entire tribulation (7 years): Daniel 9:26-27
- The great tribulation (~3 and 1/2 years): Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:11; Revelation 12:14
III) 2nd coming of Christ:
  1. The fact of it: Revelation 19:11-21
  2. Following the great tribulation: Matthew 24:29-31





I don't want to be rude, but are you being deliberately evasive? I detailed that point in my post #68... maybe you should re-read it. It is crystal clear to me.

God bless you;
Michael

There are many passages that teach a climactic return of Christ.
 
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food4thought

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The age to come has no room for "mortals" (Luke 20:34-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and Revelation 21-22) or the unregenerate (Psalms 37:9-11, Luke 17:26-30, 1 Corinthians 6:9, I Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

I) No room for mortals
  • Luke 20:34-36: Speaks ultimately of the eternal state, not of the Millennial Kingdom... I believe we will rule and reign with Christ during the Millennium, in our eternal bodies, and we will not reproduce... but there will be those who are still mortal, those we rule and reign over with Christ, who will be mortal. If they become saved during the Millennium, they will join us in the eternal state with eternal bodies.
  • Romans 8:19-23: There will be a partial restoration of the earth during the Millennium, but remember that this creation will ultimately be destroyed, and a new heaven and new earth will be created... so, turn this around; why would THIS creation long for the revealing of the sons of God if that means it's immediate destruction? Think on that for a minute. It actually supports the idea of a Millennium!
  • 1 Corinthians 15:50-55: I know, 1 Corinthians 15:50 in particular is somewhat problematic for my view. I have some ideas, but nothing fully fleshed out yet. Good point for you!
  • Revelation 21-22: Obviously, these two chapters are speaking of the eternal state, not the Millennium

II) No room for the unregenerate

  1. Psalms 37:9-11: Those who do wicked things during the Millennium will be "cut off" (executed). Note that in context of the first 8 verses it is speaking of those who do wicked things, not those who are just internally corrupt. Jesus will rule with a rod of iron.
  2. Luke 17:26-30: Not sure what point you are trying to make with this passage... to me it only points out that things before the Lord comes for His church will be business as usual, indicating that the judgments of the great tribulation will not be occurring when the rapture happens.
  3. 1 Corinthians 6:9: Those who do such things will not live long in the Millennium! Those who originally populate the Millennium will be believers who made it past the judgment of the sheep and the goats; it will be their descendants, who will have to come to faith themselves (or not), that will partake in the rebellion at the end of the Millennium.
  4. 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3: Not sure what this verse has to say on the subject at hand...
  5. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10: Again, the original mortal population of the Millennium will be born again believers, so this passage poses no problems for the Premillennial view.
God bless;
Michael
 
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food4thought

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We're under grace for salvation but if we don't obey the laws of God, if we don't do works, we will be "the least in heaven"

So Christians do have to obey the entire Mosaic Law, and teach others to do so?
 
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