LDS One Essence

He is the way said:

I believe it is important to read the context of entire prayer and especially this part:

(New Testament | John 17:5 - 26)

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

So the question is how are God the Father and Jesus Christ one?

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:......
the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:.....
that they may be made perfect in one.....

So if we become one with them as they are one will we all be of the same essence?

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Peter1000 said:

So if I were to say
"that couple is married, even as we are married".
Or
"that dog is brown, even as our dog is"
Or
"that man has is wearing a swimming trunk, even as I am wearing a swimming trunk".

You know I can go on and on. So I don't believe your logic.

Just in case, answer how we members of the church can be one, similar to how God and Jesus are one?

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Peter1000 said:

He was not a coward. He voluntarily gave himself up, and knew this was going to take his life.

Besides, until you stand in his shoes, you cannot say he was a coward. All he had to do was continue west, and the church would have followed him and there would have been a different story end. But he did not, he voluntarily gave himself up and went to jail without incident and never came back, just as he prophesied.

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Jamesone5 said:

YOu twist and turn your Scriptures

So the question is how are God the Father and Jesus Christ one?-- he is the way

Just answered----the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:.....

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He is the way said:

I will go along with that.

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mmksparbud said:

Well then, that should settle the question of us being one with God is that we are all one with each other also---in thought and purpose not in essence---so we are not going to be Gods physically then.

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He is the way said:

I have a couple of things I found to be problematic with your deduction. The first problem is the word "all". The Bible does not state that "all" will become one with them or even "all" one with each other. However, the Bible does say this:

(New Testament | Ephesians 3:19)

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

This being the second problem as we might be filled with all the fullness of God.

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ViaCrucis said:

And if I were a biblically illiterate person who hadn't spent the last thirty of my thirty-seven years of life reading the Bible then I might even be fooled into thinking this is somehow a valid point.

-CryptoLutheran

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mmksparbud said:

Yah---right---rabbit hole---either God the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost are one essence---they are one (at least pre-incarnation). Then we, if one with God, are of one essence and therefore God---or they are not of one essence---just in thought and purpose---then so are we only one in thought and purpose. You can't have it---they are one in thought and purpose, but we are one in actual essence with them and therefore God. You make no sense whatsoever.

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mmksparbud said:

Yah---right---rabbit hole---either God the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost are one essence---they are one (at least pre-incarnation). Then we, if one with God, are of one essence and therefore God---or they are not of one essence---just in thought and purpose---then so are we only one in thought and purpose. You can't have it---they are one in thought and purpose, but we are one in actual essence with them and therefore God. You make no sense whatsoever.

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He is the way said:

We believe that we can be equal to God without being of one essence or substance with God. Being of one essence or substance with God is a man made assumption and is anti-Biblical. In order to be one with God a person needs to be glorified and perfected. That is according to Jesus Christ who was indeed glorified and perfected:

(New Testament | Luke 13:32)

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

(New Testament | John 17:5)

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

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Peter1000 said:

You make it very complicated.

Remember, being of the same essence does not mean that you are one physically. God and Jesus are not 3 in 1 or 1 in 3, but they are of the same essence, being divine. If you are filled with the fullness of God and become just as they are, you too will be of the same essence as they are, being divine, but you will not be one physically (now 1 in 4 or 4 in 1), you will be one in purpose and thought. Your will, will be the will of the Father and the son and the Holy Ghost, in all things.

That is how we members of the church can be one as God and Jesus are one. We as members can be one in purpose and thought just like God and Jesus are one in purpose and thought.
And being filled with the fullness of God we will be divine and be of the same essence as they are too.

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mmksparbud said:

And because we can not become of the same essence as God---we can not be God. God is God. He always was God. He is not a created being, He is the Creator. We can only then become as He is in thought and purpose. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost were one, of the same subdtsnce, same essence---
before the incarnation. Then Jesus became human and therefore different from the Father and the Holy Ghost after that, but still retained some sort of that same divinity He had before---therefore, as a human, He was still fully God, yet fully human. He is now a glorified human---as we will become and we share humanity with Jesus, but we do not, can not, never will contain His divinity. Divinity can not be obtained. You are God, or you are not. It can not be something that anyone can grow to become. God means being uncreated and eternal, never were we divine and never will we be. We are crested---we had a start of life---God did not.
LDS have brought God down to some sort of human that became God---no such thing ever happened, nor indeed can happen. All false religion brings God down in order to elevate ourselves. God has chosen to bring His Son down to our level in order to bring us back into eternal life with Him. We are elevated through the death of sin through Christ into life with Jesus. We can get back our original created form and purity of thought--but we were never a part of God to begin with----we were made out of the dust---we are mud. That statue was brought to life through the breath of God. It is His breath that gave us life. And it will be His breath of life that we will get back when He returns and resurrects us. It is the same breath that He gave to every living thing He created. From angels to bugs---we live because of His breath.
We never existed before being born. We are not some sort of empty shells that some entity has possessed. That brings the power of God down and elevates man--it is not in the bible and the theory is not from God. He is mightier than that. His breath gave man and everything that lives---life.
You God is not the God of the bible. You God does not actually create---He moves matter around and changes it's shape---that is no God.

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He is the way said:

You said: "And because we can not become of the same essence as God---we can not be God." Correct, we do not become the Father, instead we become equal to the father:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

You said: "The Father, Son and Holy Ghost were one, of the same subdtsnce, same essence"

They are actually one of the glory and perfection as Jesus said.

You said: "Divinity can not be obtained."

We can be partakers of the divine nature:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 1:4)

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

You said: "LDS have brought God down to some sort of human that became God---no such thing ever happened, nor indeed can happen."

Through Jesus we can achieve the calling of God:

(New Testament | Philippians 3:13 - 15)

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

You said: "We are not some sort of empty shells that some entity has possessed."

Then there would be no reason for Jesus to cast our evil spirits:

(New Testament | Matthew 8:16)

16 ¶ When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

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Andrewn said:

This is horrible blasphemy.

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