Why Christians Should Embrace Partial Preterism

mkgal1 said:

Could you let us know the context that you understand applies to Isaiah 13?

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It has a near/far context. Its near context was God's judgements on Assyria and Babylon. However, like so much Old Testament vision, it is a precursor of something greater. Isaiah 13 has a 'far' context that is picked up again in chapter 34:4

It is picked up again by Jesus in Mark 13:25. Yes, I do take it literally. No, I dont apply it to to AD70.

parousia70 said:

So are the living waters currently available to all who thirst today Inferior to the future Living waters of Zechariah 14:8, or just different?

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It's probably more of the same. Zechariah's river is also mentioned in Ezekiel and Revelation:

Rev 22:1 The angel showed me the river of the water of life, which was as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and the Lamb. 2 In the middle of the city’s street and on each side of the river was a tree of life that yielded twelve kinds of fruit. The tree yields its fruit every month, and its leaves are for the healing of the nations.

parousia70 said:

I am heartened by what I see as a noticeable shift on CF away from "resurrection is past = heresy" to a more nuanced approach to the subject of the Resurrection

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It is heresy to believe there is no physical resurrection of the body (the 2nd resurrection) and no physical return of Christ (the 2nd coming).

DavidPT said:

Your question is making no sense to me, unfortunately. I bet you could ask some Amils the same thing, and they wouldn't see your question making any sense to them either. This couldn't possibly involve Premil vs. Amil.

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Amils believe that upon Physical death the Christian is caught up to heaven.

Do you, as a premil , believe that you will go to heaven upon physical death? If you don’t what do you believe happens upon the death of a believer?

claninja said:

Amils believe that upon Physical death the Christian is caught up to heaven. Do you, as a premil , believe that you will go to heaven upon physical death? If you don’t what do you believe happens upon the death of a believer?

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Both Amils and Premils of the historical and the dispensational varieties believe they're are caught up to Paradise after physical death.

Premils of the SDA and JW varieties believe in soul sleep.

parousia70 said:

Interesting verse. If this depicts a time on the new regenerated earth where all has been made perfect and anew, ... why are the nations in need of healing still?...and if this depicts the final eternal state and there is no Sun, and no night, how is "a month" measured?

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It's easy to imagine that the nations will need a lot of healing. There are even Christians who refuse to have communion with other Christians. Sad.

If fruit can give eternal life and leaves can heal nations and water flows from Jerusalem then how is a month measured?

Andrewn said:

It is heresy to believe there is no physical resurrection of the body (the 2nd resurrection) and no physical return of Christ (the 2nd coming).

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parousia70 said:

Interesting. Where is the scriptural teaching that you believe supports this?

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This is Christianity 101. I'm sure you can find articles about these 2 subjects online.

Christian Gedge said:

It has a near/far context. Its near context was God's judgements on Assyria and Babylon. However, like so much Old Testament vision, it is a precursor of something greater. Isaiah 13 has a 'far' context that is picked up again in chapter 34:4

"All the host of heaven shall be dissolved,
And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll;
All their host shall fall down
As the leaf falls from the vine,
And as fruit falling from a fig tree."
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It is picked up again by Jesus in Mark 13:25. Yes, I do take it literally. No, I dont apply it to to AD70.

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I tend to agree with your post over all, except for maybe the part about taking it literally. Not certain in what way you are taking it literally?

Christian Gedge said:

It has a near/far context. Its near context was God's judgements on Assyria and Babylon. However, like so much Old Testament vision, it is a precursor of something greater. Isaiah 13 has a 'far' context that is picked up again in chapter 34:4

"All the host of heaven shall be dissolved,
And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll;
All their host shall fall down
As the leaf falls from the vine,
And as fruit falling from a fig tree."
​

It is picked up again by Jesus in Mark 13:25. Yes, I do take it literally. No, I dont apply it to to AD70.

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DavidPT said:

I tend to agree with your post over all, except for maybe the part about taking it literally. Not certain in what way you are taking it literally?

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I'm wondering about a literal interpretation also, especially considering (as I believe) this happened about 500 years before Jesus. How can this be literal?

parousia70 said:

Is Paradise the same thing as Heaven?

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Yes!

parousia70 said:

Interesting verse.
If this depicts a time on the new regenerated earth where all has been made perfect and anew, ... why are the nations in need of healing still?...and if this depicts the final eternal state and there is no Sun, and no night, how is "a month" measured?

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It is called figurative language! Those who espouse Full-Preterist-type beliefs spiritualize everything apart from that which is plainly spiritual genre.

parousia70 said:

What scriptural teaching do you personally believe supports it? I realize I can find all kinds of non scriptural articles that make the claim. I'm interested in the scripture that you believe supports a future PHYSICAL resurrection of Believers and a future PHYSICAL return of Jesus. There must be solid scriptural teaching you could point to, no?

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The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, which is considered the standard of orthodox Christianity says:

He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

This is based on Acts 1:10,11, Revelation 1:7, John 5:22, Acts 10:42, Luke 1:33.

"And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." -Acts 1:10,11

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." -Revelation 1:7

"For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:" -John 5:22

"And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be judge of quick and dead." -Acts 10:42

"And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." -Luke 1:33

The Creed also says:

We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

This is based on 1 Corinthians 15:12 , 1 Corinthians 15:21,22, John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 2:9, -Romans 11:36.

"Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?" -1 Corinthians 15:12

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." -1 Corinthians 15:21,22

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." -John 3:16

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." -1 Corinthians 2:9

"For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be the glory for ever. Amen." -Romans 11:36

Nicene Creed: Scripture Basis (The Prayer Foundation)

parousia70 said:

Is Paradise the same thing as Heaven?

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Probably not the 7th heaven where the throne of the Lord is located. The Lord said to the believing thief, “Truly, I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43)

The Apostle Paul visited Paradise and mentioned that it was in the 3rd heaven.

And in Revelation, we read, "When the Lamb opened the fifth seal, under the incense altar I saw the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the testimony they had maintained.' (Rev 6:9)

We also read, "And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast and his image, and they did not receive his mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Rev 20:4)

So, it appears that before the final resurrection and judgment, the souls of believers are in Paradise. When the Lord ascended to heaven, he had a glorified body and I assume we'll get there after obtaining our glorified bodies at the 2nd resurrection.