Do you have to see the Cross as Jewish, before you can understand it, as a Jew?

Gottservant

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The point is, the first thing you do with something you don't want, is take ownership of it.

Jesus, we the Jews, want to take Your cross from you - as is every Jew's desire.

We therefore give your cross a Jewish identity and as God is our witness, You will be the last to carry it.
 
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pinacled

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The point is, the first thing you do with something you don't want, is take ownership of it.

Jesus, we the Jews, want to take Your cross from you - as is every Jew's desire.

We therefore give your cross a Jewish identity and as God is our witness, You will be the last to carry it.
I personally enjoy the flavor of pomegranate. Being a bit old and having a few meaty seeds in my teeth seems worth while.

Have you ever desired to be a thief on a cross next to Yeshua?
I imagine one of the 3 supposed insulting the pain would be rewarded.
 
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HARK!

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The point is, the first thing you do with something you don't want, is take ownership of it.

Jesus, we the Jews, want to take Your cross from you - as is every Jew's desire.

We therefore give your cross a Jewish identity and as God is our witness, You will be the last to carry it.

Matthew 16:24

King James Bible
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
 
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pinacled

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Matthew 16:24

King James Bible
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Amen

Follow the Tree of Life.
Roots branch's leaves flowers and seasonal difference ..


Blessings Always
 
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visionary

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To answer your question, I did not have to see the cross as Jewish to understand it. I saw the cross in the sanctuary service. Before the cross is significant, you have to understand the process of separating the sin from sinner. It is found in the sanctuary service.

When a person find the need to repent and realizes that there is only one place to come to have forgiveness of sin, they come to the foot of the cross and see Yeshua, the Lamb of God, as their only hope of salvation. It is to the outer court of the temple that they come with the lamb, laying their hands on its head, they lay on the sins on the lamb. The lamb is sacrificed for those sins, and the petitioner walks away with a new start, a clean heart, and a clear conscience. So it is today, we come to ask forgiveness and He is wounded for our transgressions and sacrificed for our sins.

As mentioned before the serpent was lifted up before the Israelites in the midst of the camp so that those who were bitten might look and be healed. Yeshua was lifted up, first on the cross, then in His resurrection, then in His ascension, and finally in the preaching of the Gospel so that sinners might look on Him and be saved.

The bronze serpent was the central and all sufficient means of healing for the Israelites. The cross is the central and all-sufficient means of the work of Yeshua. The bronze serpent was the clearest type of the saving work of Yeshua. Of all the types and shadows, there was not any that showed forth the principal work of the Savior better than this type.

Yeshua could have pointed to the Passover or any of the sacrificial types that foreshadowed His atoning death, but He chose to point Nicodemus to the bronse serpent as His example. Just as God chose a man, namely Moses, to lift up the bronze serpent on the pole so that men might look and be healed, God has chosen ministers to hold up Yeshua in the preaching of the gospel, which is Yeshua crucified so that men might look to Him and be saved.




 
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visionary

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Just as the unblemished animals were sacrificed with the laying on of hands and the shedding of its blood, Yeshua came to us as the Son of God and bore the condemnation of all our sins. Just as the sacrificial offerings were to take on all sins through the laying on of hands and confession and then their blood shed, He accepted all the sins of the world passed onto Him and bore the condemnation of these sins by shedding His blood on the cross.

In this way, the altar of burnt offering is the altar of our heart. The fulfillment of the sacrificial services at the altar with the horn at every corner was fulfilled by His sacrifice. [1]

It would not surprise me that at the time of the actual Passover sacrifice, when Yeshua gave up the ghost, the lamb selected as the Passover lamb that year was in the process of being sacrificed in the temple in Jerusalem and it escaped the knife. This temple service that God instituted was the only process that God would accept as a method to approach Him. It is the only way God would offer mercy and forgiveness to the sinner. Through the atoning blood of our Lord Yeshua, performed in ritual for years at this altar, do people get an inkling of how sacrifice removes sins from the sinner. We need to get closer to God and it will only be available through His blood ransom for our sins that we are able.[2]


[1] Jeremiah 17:1

[2] Ephesians 2:13
 
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visionary

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Yeshua accepted all sins passed onto Him and bore the condemnation of these sins to the cross, that we may be washed and be clean from all sinfulness of the flesh. [1]By doing this He abolished the enmity between God and man and cleared the path for us to go to the Father through Him. Come now, and let us reason together, said the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. [2] And now why do you delay? Rise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.[3]

To bear the condemnation of all the sins of mankind, Yeshua showed His willingness to take the sins of the world upon Himself by being baptized by John.[4]


[1] Revelation 1:5
[2] Isaiah 1:18
[3] Acts 22:16
[4] Matt 3:13
 
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visionary

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At the death of Yeshua upon the cross, inside the temple during the time of the Passover Lamb sacrifice, a heavenly symbolism was sent showing the world the earthly temple sacrificial services were over forever. The veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.[1] It was at that moment that the new heavenly priestly services were instituted.[2]

[1] Mark 15:38
[2] Hebrews 6:18-20
 
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visionary

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So what I am saying is, that without the sanctuary services, dying on a cross is meaningless. The sanctuary services is where you learn the process of how sin is separated from the sinner, separated from the condemnation of the believer, and removed forever.
 
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visionary

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Just one more tidbit to think about. It is important to remember that in Revelation 11, it talks about the outer court where the sacrifices are made and the fact that it is not included in the measurement of God’s Temple. I am bringing this to your attention now because I want you to keep it at the back of your mind as we go through the temple itself. You will remember that when you were introduced to the outer court there was something significant about to happen in this area of God’s work for our salvation. Later you will see what is going on that explains why the outer court is to be trampled for forty two months.[1]

When a person find the need to repent and realizes that there is only one place to come to have forgiveness of sin, they come to the foot of the cross and see Yeshua, the Lamb of God, as their only hope of salvation. It is to the outer court of the temple that they come with the lamb, laying their hands on its head, they lay on the sins on the lamb. The lamb is sacrificed for those sins, and the petitioner walks away with a new start, a clean heart, and a clear conscience. So it is today, we come to ask forgiveness and He is wounded for our transgressions and sacrificed for our sins.

These two objects found in the outer court are the first two things that are needed by a sinner approaching God. The outer court represents those things done outside ourselves that prepare the way for God to work inside ourselves.

There comes a time when it is necessary to leave the outer court. As it is prophesied in Daniel, this part of the sanctuary services will be taken away, by the overflowing abomination, when the city and the temple are destroyed.[1] For those that are not familiar with Daniel, he was given a vision of the last days, which has puzzled many for centuries which you can read for yourself.[2] According to this prophecy in Daniel the Antichrist is scheduled to desecrate the Temple of God by his very presence. He will enter in the outer court of the Temple of God where the daily sacrifices are performed and will blasphemously challenge the Prince of the heavenly host at the spot where God declared was His. Jerusalem will be the center of the Universe’s greatest conflict. [1]

In Daniel’s prophecy the Prince of princes is none other that Yeshua, who is currently officiating in the heavenly sanctuary. When the Antichrist stops the offering of the daily sacrifice it will be at the Temple of God in the outer court. So you ask “how can the daily sacrifice be stopped by Satan?” If Satan can stop people from praying for repentance, there is no need for the daily sacrifice and its service. If Satan can get people to not look to Yeshua, for one reason or another, then there is no need for Yeshua to perform the daily sacrifice priestly service. Maybe they believe Satan to be Yeshua. Remember this warning…Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.[1]
[1] 2 Thessalonians 2:3
[1] Daniel 8:9
[1] Daniel 9:26
[2] Daniel 8:9-14
[1] Revelation 11:2
 
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visionary

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So what where does God come in preparing His people but to their mind. "Rise up and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." [1] All those outside in the outer court are treading on the Holy City and the two witnesses are now upon the scene giving them a taste of the plaques to see if there is any who will yet repent. There is a time when there is a coming of the Lord to His Temple is you and your mind. There is only one time that the High Priest goes into the most holy. So be silent before God, for the day will come when He will dwell in your mind in all His awesome glory. [2]

Silence was kept by the congregation on Day of Atonement during to time when the High Priest was in the most holy.[3] Here we see a reference to silence during the time when God is raised up in the Most Holy Place to wed/choose/receive the inheritance/bride/believers that which is perfect in Christ. This time of silence is the very time when the New/Eternal Covenant is ratified and we wait until King Yeshua emerges to claim His inheritance.[4]


[1] Rev 11:1
[2]Zec 2:11-13
[3] Revelation 8:1
[4] Isaiah 41:1; Habakkuk 2:20
 
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visionary

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The sins are atoned for only on the Day of Atonement. Atoned as in purged, gone off the record books of Life.[1] We know that in the book of Hebrews the work that Yeshua is doing in the heaven has been towards the final atonement work.[2] We know that in Revelation is the effects of the atonement of Yeshua in the heaven at work and we will see its effect upon the world. [3]


[1] Dan 7:9,10
[2] Rev 5:5
[3] Rev 4-11; Rev 5:11
 
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pinacled

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Just as the unblemished animals were sacrificed with the laying on of hands and the shedding of its blood, Yeshua came to us as the Son of God and bore the condemnation of all our sins. Just as the sacrificial offerings were to take on all sins through the laying on of hands and confession and then their blood shed, He accepted all the sins of the world passed onto Him and bore the condemnation of these sins by shedding His blood on the cross.

In this way, the altar of burnt offering is the altar of our heart. The fulfillment of the sacrificial services at the altar with the horn at every corner was fulfilled by His sacrifice. [1]

It would not surprise me that at the time of the actual Passover sacrifice, when Yeshua gave up the ghost, the lamb selected as the Passover lamb that year was in the process of being sacrificed in the temple in Jerusalem and it escaped the knife. This temple service that God instituted was the only process that God would accept as a method to approach Him. It is the only way God would offer mercy and forgiveness to the sinner. Through the atoning blood of our Lord Yeshua, performed in ritual for years at this altar, do people get an inkling of how sacrifice removes sins from the sinner. We need to get closer to God and it will only be available through His blood ransom for our sins that we are able.[2]


[1] Jeremiah 17:1

[2] Ephesians 2:13
Not all transgressions are bore by Yeshua.
There is one that is unforgivable.
 
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Gottservant

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Just to be clear, I did not say that anyone else needs to see the cross as Jewish - only the Jews.

The point is that when Jesus is saving the Jews, He does not pretend to be anything other than Jewish.

The world can jump in the ditch or abandon its way, but to Jesus the Cross was evermore Jewish - not less!
 
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Gottservant

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To the Jews, the Cross is Jewish.
To the Romans, the Cross was painful.
To the Greeks, the Cross was questionable.
To the Arabs, the Cross was convenient.
To the Samarians, the Cross was liberal.
To the Asians, the Cross was attention seeking.
To the Heathen, the Cross was irrelevant.
To the Pagan, the Cross was impertinent.

The faith, did not cease to wait for the Cross.
The believing, felt convicted by the weight of the Cross.
The scribes, were dazed by the Cross.
The rulers, were challenged by the Cross.

I will refrain, from pressing on (but not apart from the Cross).
 
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Interesting that in the desert, the snake hung on the cross was a by faith healing when looked upon. I have read some interesting articles making the connection to Yeshua on the cross sacrificed as sin for us.
Particularly the article upon the wood was a natural element of bronze.
If I recall correctly there is another article of bronze instructed to be shaped for use in The Mishkan.
Exodus 30:18

Blessings Always
 
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pinacled

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Hi there,

So I posted something about seeing the cross in a Jewish way. My friend HARK! asked me to post here.

The point was simply this: people see in the cross, what they want to see.

The foundation for this observation was simply thus: people of the world, do not know how to distinguish between one Jew and another - as Jesus said "if they hate my word, they will hate yours" - but why is this the case?

The point being the case that people will see themselves in Jesus on the cross, is that it will be when other people like them do the same - and this will not happen without Jews being first!

Thus, I said with confidence that the cross, was a Jewish cross!

If I was going to teach something, I wouldn't know what it was: I am basically just relating how I have been hated, that is, that it doesn't or didn't mean anything to those who hated me, that I could have been more Jewish than I was.
Was such an element so specific amongst the congregation.
Which specific metal is purposed for use.
Copper, Brass, or Bronze?

Or is such a thing important besides the principle offered in lesson.

Blessings Always
 
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visionary

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Particularly the article upon the wood was a natural element of bronze.
If I recall correctly there is another article of bronze instructed to be shaped for use in The Mishkan.
Exodus 30:18

Blessings Always
Bronze itself has its own connotations. Bronze is the also referred to as brazen or brass. Bronze is a somewhat inferior quality of metal to silver and gold.

It is the making of the altar in Exodus which the priests would slay the animal sacrifices. Exodus gives instructions that the items inside of the Tabernacle (the menorah, incense altar, show bread table, and the Ark of the Covenant in the most Holy) were to be made of gold, but everything outside the tent was bronze. So we have a bronze outer court and a gold inner sanctuary.

I believe there are a lot of hints given by the choosing of bronze as the material to make the articles.

Numbers 21:9
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחשתן Nəḥuštān [nəħuʃtaːn]) is the derogatory name given to the bronze serpent When the Jews crucified Yeshua, lifted him up on the pole, He, in their eyes was evil. To them he represented a serpent. Nāḥāš, Hebrew for "snake", is associated with divination, including the verb form meaning "to practice divination or fortune-telling". So the truth becomes a lie in the ears of the religious leaders. Yeshua's prophecies scared them. It is the negative photo before process. So I could tie the outer court application in the redemption from sin with brass used, and with that the brass serpent on the pole.
 
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pinacled

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Bronze itself has its own connotations. Bronze is the also referred to as brazen or brass. Bronze is a somewhat inferior quality of metal to silver and gold.

It is the making of the altar in Exodus which the priests would slay the animal sacrifices. Exodus gives instructions that the items inside of the Tabernacle (the menorah, incense altar, show bread table, and the Ark of the Covenant in the most Holy) were to be made of gold, but everything outside the tent was bronze. So we have a bronze outer court and a gold inner sanctuary.

I believe there are a lot of hints given by the choosing of bronze as the material to make the articles.

Numbers 21:9
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחשתן Nəḥuštān [nəħuʃtaːn]) is the derogatory name given to the bronze serpent When the Jews crucified Yeshua, lifted him up on the pole, He, in their eyes was evil. To them he represented a serpent. Nāḥāš, Hebrew for "snake", is associated with divination, including the verb form meaning "to practice divination or fortune-telling". So the truth becomes a lie in the ears of the religious leaders. Yeshua's prophecies scared them. It is the negative photo before process. So I could tie the outer court application in the redemption from sin with brass used, and with that the brass serpent on the pole.
There are other uses for bronze in The Mishkan(tabernacle).
1 corinthians 1:27


And thou shalt make the court of the tabernacle: for the south side southward there shall be hangings for the court of fine twined linen of an hundred cubits long for one side:

10 And the twenty pillars thereof and their twenty sockets shall be of brass; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets shall be of silver.
 
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