Gog & Magog

DavidPT said:

Let's assume that all we had was Ezekiel 38 and 39. Thus no other Scriptures to consider. Who in either of these chapters is Ezekiel 39:17-20 being applied to? In order for there to be two battles here, you should be able to show this from these two chapters alone. How does it make good sense to get to verse 17 in Ezekiel 39, then have no one in that chapter nor chapter 38, to even apply this to?

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David, why create those kind of rules? None of the end times prophecies are stand alone.
There is an entire picture painted by the time of the end, latter days, latter years, prophecies in Daniel and Ezekiel. None of those are stand alone.

Even in Ezekiel itself, for example, Ezekiel 38-39 is not stand alone, that it relies from other chapters in Ezekiel... In Ezekiel 39,

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

The basis for that verse goes back to Ezekiel 36, when the Jews were scattered into the nations. It had the effect of disgracing God's name, because it made it look like to the heathen that God was incapable of not letting it happen. The heathen were saying - these are the people of the LORD, and gone forth out of his land?

20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Andrewn said:

I find it difficult to accept 2 G&M wars. And you add 3 more wars to these. What are the time frames of those 5 attacks?

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I give the relevant prophesies in #53.

The reference to Gog and Magog in Revelation 20:8, is merely to show the huge numbers and the similar origins of that army.

FYI; I will be unable to respond further, as I will be away for the next 20 days. Please look at; logostelos.info for more detailed information of Bible Prophecy.

keras said:

Wrong assumption.
Isaiah 30:25-30 plainly refers to the Lord's Day of fiery wrath. When His arm will descend in fierce anger with devouring flames of fire.
Just as Malachi 4:1, Psalms 50:1-3 and 2 Peter 3:8. plus over 70 other prophesies describe.

Zechariah 14:6-7 is obviously the Day Jesus will Return, as verse 5 says.

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I agree that Isaiah 30 speaks of the Lord's day of wrath, yet that doesn't mean every verse in that chapter has to be speaking of it as well. Take Zechariah 14, for instance. Some of it is about the great trib in the end of this age. Some of it is about the 2nd coming that puts an end to the GT. And some of it is about the millennium that follows. Why can't something similar be true in Isaiah 30, where not all of it is involving the same era of time?


Here's an excerpt from an article I just found via Google. It seems it perhaps may agree with what I proposed in that other post you were addressing, except there is no mention of Zechariah 14:6-7 in this article. But that doesn't prove Zechariah 14:6-7 is not meant in this article, in regards to Isaiah 30:26 in this article. IMO, regardless whether the article is correct or not, what is submitted from the article below sounds far more reasonable than what you are proposing about this same passage.

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Let’s take a closer look at verses 23-26, for these are the conditions which will exist in a future day when Israel turns to the Lord and casts away their idols. Isaiah assures them of God’s blessings to them, “Then He will give the rain for your seed with which you sow the ground, and bread of the increase of the earth; It will be fat and plentiful. In that day your cattle will feed in large pastures. Likewise the oxen and the young donkeys that work the ground will eat cured fodder, which has been winnowed with the shovel and fan. There will be on every high mountain and on every high hill rivers and streams of water, in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.” (verses 23-25). Though Israel may have experienced these blessings “in measure” after God destroyed the Assyrians in Isaiah’s day, the blessings described here look on to the establishment of Messiah’s Millennium kingdom after He has destroyed Israel’s enemies in “the day of the great slaughter” (a reference, no doubt, to the Battle of Armageddon). The peace and prosperity in Israel will know no bounds in that glorious day!



Verse 26 is the “finishing touch” on God’s list of blessings to them. It reads, “Moreover the light of the moon will be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun will be sevenfold, as the light of seven days. In the day that the LORD binds up the bruise of His people and heals the stroke of their wound.” Some have concluded that this last blessing of “light” must be taken symbolically, and that it speaks of “God’s glory and righteousness” that will cover the Millennial earth during Messiah’s reign. Others believe this should be taken just as literally as the verses that precede it. In their view, “there will be no distinction between day and night” and that the “two great lights” (the moon and the sun in Genesis 1:16) will both rule during endless days. Whichever view is correct, we can be sure that God’s “light” will manifest His power, to the awe and wonder of His redeemed people. And last, but not least, “the LORD binds up the bruise of His people and heals the stroke of their wound.” His people will NEVER rebel again and the “bruises” and “wounds” that they received as a result of their rebellion and God’s chastening will be forever done away with. Again, what a glorious day that will be for Israel! (246.1)
Please explain Isaiah 30:26. | Answers From The Book

Douggg said:

David, why create those kind of rules? None of the end times prophecies are stand alone.
There is an entire picture painted by the time of the end, latter days, latter years, prophecies in Daniel and Ezekiel. None of those are stand alone.

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Even though I agree with your approach above, still it makes zero sense for verses 17-20 to be in Ezekiel 39, then have no one in that chapter nor the preceding chapter to even apply this to. If someone were reading/hearing the prophecies in Ezekiel 39:17-20 during Ezekiel's day, who would they have thought this was being applied to? They couldn't consult the NT during that time, that's for certain. Would they have seen two battles here as well, where one occurs earlier than the other one?

HARK! said:

You refuse to watch over 3 hours of evidence that I provided from this scholarly group, (I actually watched the whole lost tribe series; which is more like 40 hours, where they prove this subject out to the minute details.); nor even the four minute and forty second summary of that series.

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You are expecting me to spend an additional 3 hours of my time, when I had already spent an hour and half listening to the video on Gog/Magog that never got around to talking about the attack itself or when it will happen. You watched the video's - when does the speaker claim the Gog/Magog attack on Israel in the latter days and latter years, takes place relevant to all of the other end times prophecies?

It is easy for you to post a video(s) - without summarizing the main points ahead of time - leaving it up to me to go over in my post what the speaker said and why he is wrong, explaining the video.

No, I am not going down that route. You first summarize all of the highlights and the specific points the speaker is making in each video, and the rationale. Don't just say - watch these 3 or 4 hours of video.

Revelation 11:8

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is not talking about Israel, nor Jerusalem of today.

Proof?

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Because Revelation 11:8 is at the time the beast is ruling, and the two witnesses killed, and lie in the street for 3 1/2 days. At the time of the beast and occupancy by the nations, the conditions in Jerusalem and Israel - because of them - will be likened to Sodom and Egypt.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

You are missing the whole point of the connection of Sodom, of the conditions in Jerusalem at the time the beast will be ruling and the nations will be occupying Jerusalem. Two witnesses sent by God. Two angels sent to Lot.

DavidPT said:

Even though I agree with your approach above, still it makes zero sense for verses 17-20 to be in Ezekiel 39, then have no one in that chapter nor the preceding chapter to even apply this to. If someone were reading/hearing the prophecies in Ezekiel 39:17-20 during Ezekiel's day, who would they have thought this was being applied to? They couldn't consult the NT during that time, that's for certain. Would they have seen two battles here as well, where one occurs earlier than the other one?

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All of the end times prophecies in the Tanach cannot be understood apart from the NT.

I would go one step further to what you are saying regarding Ezekiel 39:17-20, if someone could have discerned if there were two events in Ezekiel 39, one for Gog/Magog, and one for the other event, without having the New Testament available. I will state that even in our current day, I don't know of a single popular end times bible commentator who connect that it is Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29, having returned to this earth (in the future).

If you were to say no-one could have understood Ezekiel 39 back in days prior to the New Testament, then I am in total agreement. But the caveat is that they weren't supposed to.

HARK! said:

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At minute 3.39, the video flashes up 2Thessalonians2:3. And then 2Thessalonians2:4. With background scenes of the wilderness and remains of what was an ancient pagan temple, With some dramatic back ground music. The next scene is a statement..."a third temple will be built for the beast".

The video is wrong and misleading because the intention of the third temple to be built by the Jews is for the worship of God. The Antichrist will in the middle part of the week, desecrate the temple by claiming to be God.

The person is not the beast, yet, when 2Thessalonis2:3-4 takes place. The person is the Antichrist, who reveals himself to be the man of sin, who later becomes the beast after he is killed and comes back to life.


3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Andrewn said:

I find it quite illogical to conclude there are 2 different G&M wars.

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In your view of there being one Gog/Magog event, do you believe it to be before are after Jesus returns to earth in Revelation 19 ?

Andrewn said:

I believe the G&M war described in Ezekiel 38-39 and Rev 20 is the same as the war described in Rev 19 and Zec 14. The 2nd coming of Christ ends all wars with the sword of His mouth, the birds of the sky, and the fire.

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Jesus's return, his second coming, in Revelation 19 is before Gog and Magog in Revelation 20..

Differently, Jesus return to earth to rule over the heathen in Ezekiel 39:21 is after that Gog/Magog event.

HARK! said:

Now , having watched this short summary video, would you still imply that modern Israel is true Israel?

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Did you not read what I wrote in my post #68 pointing out the errors in the video?

Israel over there and the Jews living there, what you are calling modern Israel, are the true Israel and the true Jews. The majority are not yet Christians, but will become Christians in the middle of the 7 years.

HARK! said:

(CLV) Isa 11:11
And it will come to be in that day, Yahweh shall again lift up His hand, To be zealous for the remnant of His people Which shall remain from Assyria and from Egypt, From Pathros (Sudan) and from Cush, (Ethiopia) From Elam and from Shinar, From Hamath and from the coastlands of the sea.

(CLV) Isa 11:12
He will lift up a banner for the nations And gather the expelled of Israel, And He shall convene the scattered of Judah From the four wings of the earth.

Modern Israel came from Poland, Yemen and Aden, Morocco Tunisia, Algeria, Bulgaria, Turkey, Libya, Iran, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Germany, Austria, Egypt, USSR and Yugoslavia.

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The return of all of the house of Israel does not take place until after Jesus's return.

Is is in Ezekiel 39:28, Jesus Himself speaking in the text. And in Matthew 24:31, also Jesus Himself speaking in the text.

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@Andrewn

Ezek 38-39:16 Gog/Magog try to destroy Israel. Fail.
then 7 years later
Ezek 39-17-20 Armageddon feast.
Ezel 39- 21-29 Jesus having returned to earth to reign and rule a thousand years
Rev 20:4-6 The martyred saints resurrected to rule with Jesus the thousand years
Rev 20:7-9 After the thousand years, Satan released, and the Gog/Magog nations try again to destroy Israel. Fail again.